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My great-grandfather was a dreadnought.  True fact.

This sounds potentially glorious.

Edited by akd

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Wow good luck with this project,  you could add economics as required because the 'Dreadnought' era was won by money, actually in the whole time period how many battleship only battles where there are you including other ship classes?

1939 as the end date would this be commissioned ships only as otherwise we all want the Yamato :D

 

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There are actual some games existing, e.g. Rule the Waves. You can find in their forums some interesting discussion about Ships of the Dreadnought area and you can find on youtube some lets plays, e.g historical gamer and tortuga power. So RtW has some good features with ugly graphics but packed in the graphic like NA it would be interresting, okay shipbuilder wouldnt be possible, but an 1.WW Ironship game would be interessting but the Range from 1880-1939 is to wide there has changed so much in ship design and the technology advance was so great. I have my doubt that this could be balanced. So I would guess you have to lower the range of years, maybe from the end of the predreadnought area e.g. 1900 - 1939 or from 1880 to 1906 (introduction of the HMS Dreadnought).

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11 hours ago, Gysendorf said:

 okay shipbuilder wouldnt be possible

We already made a good 3d ship builder. You will design YOUR own 3d ships and will even have some control over the hull form.

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Would be nice to hear a little bit more about the intentions. As far as I remember, there have not been much encounters in the first part of the timeframe. Except from some duck-shooting in east asia there has been the battle at port arthur and ww I. Or am I missing something?

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On 16.8.2017 at 8:45 AM, admin said:

We already made a good 3d ship builder. You will design YOUR own 3d ships and will even have some control over the hull form.

That would be awesome! So now I am exited!

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I've studied American History so if youve got any questions in regards to the early dreadnoughts and the Empires of the 15th - 20th century I'd be happy to help. Also if you want to know anything about boarding ships I got some real life experience in that :P

ALthough this is mostly 2nd WW related you may find a few pictures of interest here: http://archive.hnsa.org/doc/id/fm30-50-naval/index.htm

Edited by JollyRoger1516

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I'm really interested on how this game would sort out the pre-dreadnoughts from the dreadnoughts... the pre-dreadnoughts before 1906 would be vastly inferior to pretty much anything built post-HMS Dreadnought. I would consider only accomodating 1906 -> 1950 (so we can have WWII vessels, notably Vanguard, Iowa, Blucher, Fletcher).

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On 16-8-2017 at 8:45 AM, admin said:

We already made a good 3d ship builder. You will design YOUR own 3d ships and will even have some control over the hull form.

This statement made my eyes wet with anticipation. 

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On 9/2/2017 at 5:20 PM, _Masterviolin said:

I'm really interested on how this game would sort out the pre-dreadnoughts from the dreadnoughts... the pre-dreadnoughts before 1906 would be vastly inferior to pretty much anything built post-HMS Dreadnought. I would consider only accomodating 1906 -> 1950 (so we can have WWII vessels, notably Vanguard, Iowa, Blucher, Fletcher).

 

While that is true about everything post 1906, that does not mean that the pre-dreadnought steel era has no place in the game. It all depends on how the game were to be set up. If it's straight PVP then sure, someone in a pre-dreadnought is at a disadvantage to someone in a WWI or WWII ship. But if it's a more match-making type setup, then what's the problem? I for one think it would be fun to be using some of the ships that historically saw little if any combat, the Russo-Japanese and Spanish-American wars notwithstanding.

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I'm of a like mind with masterviolin.  At some point during the WWI arms race between Britain and Germany, a number of the capital ships built were still strong enough to compete decades later during the second world war.  I wouldn't personally put the limit at 1939 (maybe mid 1920's?), but if admin and the team feel balancing won't be an issue, then let's see what happens.

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On 8/15/2017 at 6:27 AM, Grundgemunkey said:

slaughts was actually at jutland ..he was a young dabber on the Invincible

Did he discover the fountain of youth as well?

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I would be interested in being involved in this. While I am no naval architect I do have some fairly detailed books on it.

 

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On 14/08/2017 at 7:02 AM, Sir R. Calder of Southwick said:

Hello,

 

I have degrees in naval architecture and marine engineering and have always been extremely fascinated with the steel warship era, particularly the dreadnought era. I'd certainly like to help contribute. I also have a significant library with not only general volumes but technical treatises on interwar ships (I know you said until 1939 but most of my information/knowledge goes through 1945).

As an example, here is part of my library.

 

How can I assist?

battleship books.JPG

What, no Conways? :P
I own both conways... ww1 and 2. Plus thier ancient triremes one.

Ever considered an ancient naval game?

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On 02/09/2017 at 10:20 PM, _Masterviolin said:

I'm really interested on how this game would sort out the pre-dreadnoughts from the dreadnoughts... the pre-dreadnoughts before 1906 would be vastly inferior to pretty much anything built post-HMS Dreadnought. I would consider only accomodating 1906 -> 1950 (so we can have WWII vessels, notably Vanguard, Iowa, Blucher, Fletcher).

There were many transitional designs, for example the Japanese would have built a class of all big gun capital ships (Satsuma and Aki) predating the Dreadnaught but ran out of money and ended up with a mixed 12in/10in battery. 

Building our own ships offers a chance to smooth that transition with a whole range of mid-sized mixed battery battleships.

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@admin
I have been doing a lot of research on the period for a naval-focused alt-history worldbuilding project--I would be eager to discuss/share anything I can. (Particular interests--historical fire control, approximations of hydrodynamic properties, and effect of gunfire.)

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While not an expert in the field I played all the SSI board games covering that era, and remember some of the principles. Don't remember the SSI titles - Dreadnought? Jutland? Battleship? I remember the Jutland game in particular - it was one of my favorites....this possibility really excites me!

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On 4-1-2018 at 8:28 PM, Preechur Blackheart said:

While not an expert in the field I played all the SSI board games covering that era, and remember some of the principles. Don't remember the SSI titles - Dreadnought? Jutland? Battleship? I remember the Jutland game in particular - it was one of my favorites....this possibility really excites me!

The SSI Great Naval Battles series was glorious!

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Joined just for this. But I want to ask two questions:



1. How is damage going to be handled? Are we going to need to watch for listing, flooding, flash fires, magazine detonations, and other dangerous situations?


2. Exactly how much control will we have over things like hull shape, superstructure, armor placement, and weapon placement are we going to have and how will it affect gameplay?


Edit: A third question, what kind of game are you aiming to make this? Online only? Single player only? Single player but with online skirmish? Other?

Further Edit: I know these don't look like they have much to do with the thread topic, but I'm sure anyone here can tell you how important these things are to capital ships and combat between them...

Edited by moghopper
Important Question

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On 1/4/2018 at 12:44 AM, Blothorn said:

@admin
I have been doing a lot of research on the period for a naval-focused alt-history worldbuilding project--I would be eager to discuss/share anything I can. (Particular interests--historical fire control, approximations of hydrodynamic properties, and effect of gunfire.)

 I think a look at the way Cordite was handled aboard RN ships at Jutland and the practice of gunnery in general, may be of interest, There may not of been anything wrong with Beatty's Battlecruisers, it is possible that the storage of Cordite outside of safe areas was responsible, in part, for the heavy Battlecruiser loss rate, 

The Royal Navy's Admiralty boards of inquiry (there were two) into the loss of HMS Hood makes interesting reading as well, there are some good descriptions (and drawings, somewhat simplified) of the fires and the fatal hit that blew her apart from Prince of Wales, Norfolk and Suffolk The Cruisers were in visual range of the battle but did not engage as they were still out of gun range, Neither inquiry adequately explained her loss, and, with the discovery of her wreck, little more has been added to the evidence, except that Vice Admiral Holland had indeed ordered a hard turn to port to open 'X' and 'Y' turrets aiming arcs, eye witness testimony implies that the Royal Marines of 'X' turret  may have got a single salvo away at Bismark immediately before the fatal hit, it is believed the 'A' turret also fired her last salvo as she was sinking. 

Such descriptions are not very common, the description of the carnage, and, the ferocity of the fires on the upper deck by AB Tilburn  who was a Gunner on that deck, he was incredibly lucky to have survived, given, his semi exposed position on deck, and from AB Ted Briggs who describes the impact followed by the loss of steering, the listing, (a significant amount of damage from a single hit), and, his escape from the Admirals bridge are among the best sources of the effects of naval gunnery, both, written and of filmed eyewitness accounts to date. Ted Briggs was the last survivor from HMS Hood to die, he was a quiet spoken man, who told his story modestly, and, at great emotional cost,  he was given the high honour of being returned to his shipmates aboard HMS Hood, it is not something that the Royal Navy allows very often.  The third Survivor, Midshipman Dundas, never, as far as I know, spoke publicly about his experience. HMS Hood was a product of WWI, being laid down shortly after Jutland in 1916, and, her plans were altered, according to the lessons learned,(or not) of the Battle of Jutland, the other ships of her class were cancelled and never laid down.

There is no doubt that the Stereoscopic sighting systems aboard Bismark and Prinz Eugen was so very superior to the Royal Navy's split image systems (while the introduction of the gunnery data table had improved gunnery solutions,the sights were much the same as the ones used at Jutland), All the ships had early radar systems aboard, It is  thought Bismark was capable of radar ranging but her Radar was damaged when she fired at Norfolk and Suffolk the day before the battle, which, is why Prinz Eugen was the lead ship, and, assumed, by Vice Admiral Holland to be Bismark, it is however probable that Captain Brinkmann (Prinz Eugen) would have used the optical sights rather than the new radar, this is borne out by the hit rate from the German ships, Hood came close to hitting Prinz Eugen early on in the action but scored no hits at all, (although there is filmed evidence of Captain Brinkmann holding a piece of shrapnel from one of Hood's near misses that came inboard causing minor damage),  Prince of Wales fared little better, but, at least one of the few hits she did score was sufficient to force Admiral Lutjens to abandon his mission and set course for Brest. The original film footage shot by a film crew aboard Prinz Eugen still exists, there is both a silent version, and, one with sound, widely available on you tube. It is one of the very few, if not, the only, live film footage of a naval battle between the big gunned warships alone, although Prinz Eugen, was an 8" gunned Heavy Cruiser, who, scored at least one hit on Hood and several on Prince of Wales.

A little piece of odd information is that had Bismark not sunk HMS Hood, and, if Captain Lindemann  and Bismark survived, he may possibly of faced Courts Martial for willful disobedience, and, of hazarding his command, since he blatantly disobeyed the orders of both Admiral Lutjens and Gross Admiral Raeder, in that, he, was not to engage enemy warships, telling his Admiral that he would not allow his ship to be shot out from under him and opening fire on his own authority, is not, a good career move, in any navy! Many good Captains have fallen foul of ambiguous military regulations over the centuries.

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On 9/2/2018 at 5:48 PM, moghopper said:

Joined just for this. But I want to ask two questions:



1. How is damage going to be handled? Are we going to need to watch for listing, flooding, flash fires, magazine detonations, and other dangerous situations?


2. Exactly how much control will we have over things like hull shape, superstructure, armor placement, and weapon placement are we going to have and how will it affect gameplay?


Edit: A third question, what kind of game are you aiming to make this? Online only? Single player only? Single player but with online skirmish? Other?

Further Edit: I know these don't look like they have much to do with the thread topic, but I'm sure anyone here can tell you how important these things are to capital ships and combat between them...

1. Yes, all of those things and more are going to be simulated. The damage system aims for realism. Critical hits may ruin the strongest battleship, so investing in technology that improves survivability will be absolutely necessary, as it was in real life.

2. Each ship type will have different basic hull variations according to technology with unique statistics, affecting Hull Form, Floatability, Endurance and Stability. Hull becomes dynamically enlarged in displacement according to technologies and shipyard limitations. You will have full freedom to add towers, funnels, turrets, torpedo launchers, rangefinders etc. and design your ship the way you want it, but random placement will just not work, because weight imbalances significantly affect the heel and trim of the hull.

3. We currently make a single player game, with a campaign system and single missions. A multiplayer version may naturally evolve if the game becomes successful.

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I see.

In regards to question 2, what do you mean by hull variations? It sounds almost like the system used in Sword of the Stars, where you would have different ship sections and would stick them together to create a ship.

So, for example, if I was making a battleship, I could choose a fore section, a middle section, and an aft section. The choices I would have for each would be based on the technology I have, and each would have a different appearance.

Is this accurate? or am I mistaken in my assessment?

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