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Vllad

You know Alts have screwed up the game when...

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2 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Funny.  I don't see: E:\Steam\steamapps\common\Naval Action\logs\Chat*.txt.  anywhere in my game...

Is it under shop, or ships maybe?...  Or maybe the Admiralty?...

Nope.  Still don't see it. 

Maybe I need to hit the pray button and it pops up?....  Nope.

Hmmmm.  Maybe its under the "Repair" tab?....  Nope.

 

Nope.  Not part of my game.

Maybe You should get another monitor then.  As its Clan,global, nation, combat and trade all of it, So no more having to bring up all the tabs that get in way and still missing stuff. It really nice. If you know java at all I mean like read past page 3 of any book you can make a txt reader.

Edited by JobaSet

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this is the problem with non AAA games tho. Its not really programming it's asset managing....

https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/61729

this is the chat asset.  it is not secure and it is not their code so anyone can work out howto connect to their chat server if they know how the things work.   Same with the GPS system..

anything that is available to clients is accessible.  Speed hacks are obviously accessible...teleporting could be done also if you watched the traffic close enough.

anything that is fed to the client is 100% hackable....even encryption wise is easy to hack if you can seed the encrypted data then the keys etc are in the code and there will be a buffer or somewhere where the decryption happens.....if you can isolate that then its a cakewalk..

how much effort you put into securing this stuff is generally enough for a 2 or 3rd year CS Student to not be able to hack you....not stop anyone.

 

the things you can control tho are things like how engagements happen, and how the numbers work so although a person can cheat the cheat isn't defeating the game....

this is things like being able to run faster.....you dont defend that you monitor for it.  however being able to be 1 shotted etc shoudl be defended against by checking for sanity of the variables.

ie if a gun can do 100 damage and you hit someone then the variables passed must =< 100....this can be quite overheady depending on the number of items its tracking....which might be a reason for games to not scale up...Pubg for instance at 100 is pretty easy to code for that stuff because theres only X amount of shots happening at once and the checks only happen on hits etc.

Honestly, though this is actually the best option the devs have without going into the private VOIP stuff....which is still fubar .....see PUBG lobbys.

 

you cant defend against this stuff....just make it harder

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Fastidius said:

this is the problem with non AAA games tho. Its not really programming it's asset managing....

https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/61729

this is the chat asset.  it is not secure and it is not their code so anyone can work out howto connect to their chat server if they know how the things work.   Same with the GPS system..

anything that is available to clients is accessible.  Speed hacks are obviously accessible...teleporting could be done also if you watched the traffic close enough.

anything that is fed to the client is 100% hackable....even encryption wise is easy to hack if you can seed the encrypted data then the keys etc are in the code and there will be a buffer or somewhere where the decryption happens.....if you can isolate that then its a cakewalk..

how much effort you put into securing this stuff is generally enough for a 2 or 3rd year CS Student to not be able to hack you....not stop anyone.

 

the things you can control tho are things like how engagements happen, and how the numbers work so although a person can cheat the cheat isn't defeating the game....

this is things like being able to run faster.....you dont defend that you monitor for it.  however being able to be 1 shotted etc shoudl be defended against by checking for sanity of the variables.

ie if a gun can do 100 damage and you hit someone then the variables passed must =< 100....this can be quite overheady depending on the number of items its tracking....which might be a reason for games to not scale up...Pubg for instance at 100 is pretty easy to code for that stuff because theres only X amount of shots happening at once and the checks only happen on hits etc.

Honestly, though this is actually the best option the devs have without going into the private VOIP stuff....which is still fubar .....see PUBG lobbys.

 

you cant defend against this stuff....just make it harder

 

 

wow !!!

you went from reading a txt file on your local hard drive ...

to actually hacking the game. 

You  need to buy a few of

https://www.amazon.com/Electro-Deflecto-Unisex-Foil-Size/dp/B01I497JAM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1502435033&sr=8-1&keywords=tin+foil+hat

 

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16 hours ago, The Red Duke said:

What is the purpose of spying in our microcosm ?

Not everyone does it. That's why some of us that do not would like to comprehend why :)

I get it is a inherent player-made-mechanic in other games due to the fact that those games have, in place, specific situations that might require it.

Despite the RL spying - some ship designs were state secrets, royal convoys secret routes, etc - what is the definite usefulness of a spy ?

Let's assume a spy is not a alt account but an actual player. Under that scenario the content grows. There's something afoot but the "disloyal" captain is not a traitor, he simply gives away bit of info. Let's assume that the player spy is not actively passing "state secrets" but acting as a buyer of stolen goods, in truth beating his fellow traders to the bid and surely paying lower prices. Well, it is content made by actual players playing the game and having these "shady" sides to their in game character.

Enter alts and the content gets corrupted, to a point. Having the entire purpose of overcoming some fences and deviating from having to participate in the "universe". Let's say that 3/4 of playtime by association are overcome by use of alts. Why buy from the produces when a second account can do it for "free" ? Why employ a dedicated crafter when a third account can do it ?

Despite the time required to bring second accounts to these levels there's a lot that have been lost. Links with producers, contracts with crafters, transport guild, a lot can be done in the sandbox but, somehow we seem to not like these.

So, what is the purpose of spying in our little corner of the ocean ? What is at stake ?

There's nothing of importance in conquering empires. All the resources are readily available unlike in solid strategy games where trade is mandatory, and facilities for equipment manufacturing are by request wherever we wish with no limits. Veteran captains own ( even post wipe ) more ships than they will ever see sunk.

So why spying or breaking a game with alt use ? Pure grieving or shortcut of time ? Are the mechanics too lenient or are the players simply not interested in creating a OW age of sail ?

 

 

Do not blame the players for "not interested in creating the OW in age of sail".

There are so many suggestions here, so good, they  would make this game worth playing for thousands.

But nobody is reading them.

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3 hours ago, Captain Lust said:

I'm wondering the same...

Yeah, no problem it's pay2win and ruins balance but no problem. 

Oh+look+its+another+comic+about+not+bein

Talk to developers and try to convince them how awesome your suggestions are. I think they won`t read/listen to you anyway, so stop pretending like your word matters here.

Don`t blame me for this s..t. happening with alts.

Good luck with your disease.

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10 hours ago, Rickard said:

there is a problem with that... its not helping this community.

 

12 hours ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

That would not be a deterrent.  Almost nothing is invested in alts.  There needs to be terminal consequences.  Wipe ALL their accounts. If you get hanged as a spy you have to start over.

 

? Wipe the alt accounts? For what?

 

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7 minutes ago, Cortez said:

Do not blame the players for "not interested in creating the OW in age of sail".

Not blaming anyone, I maybe wasn't clear enough with the written word, just genuinely interested on the why someone pickes up a themed game and simply doesn't care about playing it...themed... :)

 

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Just now, The Red Duke said:

Not blaming anyone, I maybe wasn't clear enough with the written word, just genuinely interested on the why someone pickes up a themed game and simply doesn't care :)

 

Lot of players do not care anymore.

All they get are excuses instead of solutions.

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12 hours ago, JobaSet said:

You guys trip me out. I not even got to play today and all you do is bitch About Pirates.  The log thing Comes from your hard drive lol. E:\Steam\steamapps\common\Naval Action\logs\Chat*.txt.  And up to just a few weeks ago. It was all the Chat you had the info your self.

So ready to for another game, so I can leave your crying ass here.  Please don't go Play Star Citizen.  Your cry baby asses wont last a week so save your money. 

LOL More big talk out of a big mouth.  If I caught bass with a mouth that big it would be on my wall.   And you should NEVER play Mortal Online.  Your little antics would get you destroyed by that community.  I would personally enjoy watching your character getting priest camped by RPK in that game.  

 

10 hours ago, The LoneWolf said:

What you forgot or omitted to mention is that French are using alts and have been for some time.  French were parking a pirate alt at mort and Coolbreeze66 was reporting ship movements in French chat. WO clan uses alts to spot for them before exiting battle.  Yesterday, the Pirate fleet that left Castries for Trinidad Pb was screened by a danish alt (Ragnar or something) and a pirate alt on basic cutter (billy bones something).  King of Crowns admitted on global today that he purchased an alt.  Might be wise to look in mirror.  From my perspective, you are just getting a taste of your own medicine. :)  

And I have seen JPV admit to Christendom being his alt.  You can say a lot in global, doesnt mean it is all true.

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12 hours ago, The LoneWolf said:

What you forgot or omitted to mention is that French are using alts and have been for some time.  

Wow, you Pirate guys must not be capable of reading anything beyond 140 characters.

Let me repeat myself.

We are creating alts to kill alts in order to track alts that are used by alts to spy.

I am not omitting anything. Let me walk you through this very slowly so you can understand. "We" represents France. "We are creating alts" means France is creating alts, "to kill alts" means France is creating alts to kill other teams alts like you Lone Wolf. Do I need to continue or can you just read it again?

Ultimately my criticism has nothing to do with any individual particularly, I am being critical of the game itself for building this game in a way that doesn't allow the players to police this themselves. The fact that we have reached the point where Alts are eliminating PVP means NA has gone way off the rails in understanding what ALT's are doing to there game.  

Edited by Vllad

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Waaaa you guys have alts too!!!!!   

The arguement isn't about having them, it's what you choose to do with the alts.  Some choose to alt farm, sneak them into other nations pbs (escort them on mains even), tag in PB fleets to hide, talk shit in nation chats and manipulate the price of trade goods needed for mods.  Some clans and players choose go this route with alts.

the big whopper is using alts to live stream the nation chat of all their enemies onto a website that anyone can view with a password.  So shameful.  

Only one clan in particular comes into mind that uses these tactics.  Can you guess which one?  

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51 minutes ago, Vllad said:

alts like you Lone Wolf.

Is that the alt or the main? I'm so confused. :lol:

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1 hour ago, Vllad said:

Wow, you Pirate guys must not be capable of reading anything beyond 140 characters.

Let me repeat myself.

We are creating alts to kill alts in order to track alts that are used by alts to spy.

I am not omitting anything. Let me walk you through this very slowly so you can understand. "We" represents France. "We are creating alts" means France is creating alts, "to kill alts" means France is creating alts to kill other teams alts like you Lone Wolf. Do I need to continue or can you just read it again?

Ultimately my criticism has nothing to do with any individual particularly, I am being critical of the game itself for building this game in a way that doesn't allow the players to police this themselves. The fact that we have reached the point where Alts are eliminating PVP means NA has gone way off the rails in understanding what ALT's are doing to there game.  

I can read quite well.  You have a double negative in your statement however.  Lone Wolf is not an alt but my main :) and our alts are not used by alts to spy :)

 

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10 hours ago, Fastidius said:

doesn't matter if its text/packets/memory lcoations......if its on the client its not secure is my point

 

According to the devs the game isnt client based but server based...so your teleport and speed hacks wont really work.

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36 minutes ago, Prater said:

According to the devs the game isnt client based but server based...so your teleport and speed hacks wont really work.

Most of the games data is server based.  But most of the ships data files are kept client side, but checked with the server information.   It is a checks and balance system.   But there are ways around all of this... there are always ways.

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42 minutes ago, Hodo said:

Most of the games data is server based.  But most of the ships data files are kept client side, but checked with the server information.   It is a checks and balance system.   But there are ways around all of this... there are always ways.

The data is on the server.  Try changing the game files or the the packets and see where that gets you.

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On 8/10/2017 at 1:45 PM, Christendom said:

Good ole Joba. Always trying to pin his shortcomings on me.

kLGlfZg.png

Nice try fellas

I think they are mocking the fact that you cant even hold your own island....

Nice Try Dom.

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11 hours ago, Prater said:

According to the devs the game isnt client based but server based...so your teleport and speed hacks wont really work.

yes and no.  that depends on circumstance and design. 

EG teleport button.....on loging the UI checks all it's values to populate the UI.  now the button to press teleport is disabled on the client if there is a timer...however if you inject code to do what the button does when pressed unless the devs specifically check teleport timers on activation then its exploitable....just because the server stores the timer does not mean the check happens server side.

 

 

you can't necessarily change values but you can fire triggers and false report stuff and see how it goes.  also if you are sailing a ship and unplug the cable and plug the cable back in repeatedly then see what the ship does on someone else's screen. 

Edited by Fastidius

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On Thursday, August 10, 2017 at 10:55 AM, Vllad said:

On Global we know who the Nationals spies are (Grand Merchant Loop) who just follow us around telling the Nationals what we are doing. So we now have to create Alts to tackle them to get them out of the way otherwise we can't really play the game effectively. Then the Nationals get to know those alts and create other ways to circumvent our alts so they can continue to spy.

We are creating alts to kill alts in order to track alts that are used by alts to spy. Say that fast 3 times.

When 25 guys just turn around and end the night and go play Hearts of Iron because we don't have a way to deal with ALTs on that particular evening you know your game is seriously screwed up.

I fixed your OP for you....see what I did there ???? Open your eyes you NAT ....we deal with it to on the Pirate side also, you are not all peaches and cream ladies.

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17 hours ago, Prater said:

The data is on the server.  Try changing the game files or the the packets and see where that gets you.

That is why I said it checks with the server.   

It is one of the simplest "anti" hack systems known to gaming.  But with that said there are ways around it.   I wont go into it because that part of my life is over and I no longer do those things or care to keep up on them.  

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1 hour ago, Hodo said:

That is why I said it checks with the server.   

It is one of the simplest "anti" hack systems known to gaming.  But with that said there are ways around it.   I wont go into it because that part of my life is over and I no longer do those things or care to keep up on them.  

You are talking about hacking the server, which is illegal.  So you hack the server to give your character an advantage.  Maybe the data center the game is hosted in finds out, maybe Game Labs somehow finds out.  You character is tied to your steam account, your steam account is tied to your bank account.  Is anyone willing to go to jail to gain an advantage in Naval Action?  I doubt it.  The only reason someone would hack into GL's servers are if it can't be tied to their accounts in anyway.

Edited by Prater

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5 minutes ago, Prater said:

You are talking about hacking the server, which is illegal.  So you hack the server to give your character an advantage.  Maybe the data center the game is hosted in finds out, maybe Game Labs somehow finds out.  You character is tied to your steam account, your steam account is tied to your bank account.  Is anyone willing to go to jail to gain an advantage in Naval Action?  I doubt it.  The only reason someone would hack into GL's servers are if it can't be tied to their accounts in anyway.

You are reading to much into what I am saying.  I personally do not hack games.  I have worked as a moderator, and I am saying that there are ways around even the best game security systems.  And Gamelabs does not have the best.   Unity is one of the easiest aside from the Unreal game engine to "hack".   Most second year programming students can crack the Unity engine wide open.   And a talented "hacker" would not use a valid steam account to do this on.   

You dont have to hack the server to do damage in game.  Mortal Online has most of the information server side also, and I have seen players flying in GM mode, one shotting people from half way across the map, and going under ground.  They didnt hack the server to do this.   

You think that game "hacking" involves actual hacking.... no most of the game hacks out there are nothing more than scripting junk.     

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34 minutes ago, Hodo said:

Mortal Online has most of the information server side also

Mortal Online is client based.  There are only a few things it checks with the server.

 

37 minutes ago, Hodo said:

You think that game "hacking" involves actual hacking.... no most of the game hacks out there are nothing more than scripting junk.  

Client based games are hacked with dll injections and coding.  Server based, the server has to be hacked....a server based game checks everything through the server, otherwise it isn't server based, and is still client based.

 

38 minutes ago, Hodo said:

And Gamelabs does not have the best.

What does Game Labs have?

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