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Vllad

You know Alts have screwed up the game when...

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On Global we know who the Pirate spies are (Grand Merchant Loop) who just follow us around telling the Pirates what we are doing. So we now have to create Alts to tackle them to get them out of the way otherwise we can't really play the game effectively. Then the Pirates get to know those alts and create other ways to circumvent our alts so they can continue to spy.

We are creating alts to kill alts in order to track alts that are used by alts to spy. Say that fast 3 times.

When 25 guys just turn around and end the night and go play Hearts of Iron because we don't have a way to deal with ALTs on that particular evening you know your game is seriously screwed up.

Edited by Vllad

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6 minutes ago, Vllad said:

On Global we know who the Pirate spies are (Grand Merchant Loop) who just follow us around telling the Pirates what we are doing. So we now have to create Alts to tackle them to get them out of the way otherwise we can't really play the game effectively. Then the Pirates get to know those alts and create other ways to circumvent our alts so they can continue to spy.

We are creating alts to kill alts in order to track alts that are used by alts to spy. Say that fast 3 times.

When 25 guys just turn around and end the night and go play Hearts of Iron because we don't have a way to deal with ALTs on that particular evening you know your game is seriously screwed up.

Some factions get a in game mechanic that lets them deal with alts... the rest of us get to listen to the alts talk trash in our nation chat.  

GG.

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What is the purpose of spying in our microcosm ?

Not everyone does it. That's why some of us that do not would like to comprehend why :)

I get it is a inherent player-made-mechanic in other games due to the fact that those games have, in place, specific situations that might require it.

Despite the RL spying - some ship designs were state secrets, royal convoys secret routes, etc - what is the definite usefulness of a spy ?

Let's assume a spy is not a alt account but an actual player. Under that scenario the content grows. There's something afoot but the "disloyal" captain is not a traitor, he simply gives away bit of info. Let's assume that the player spy is not actively passing "state secrets" but acting as a buyer of stolen goods, in truth beating his fellow traders to the bid and surely paying lower prices. Well, it is content made by actual players playing the game and having these "shady" sides to their in game character.

Enter alts and the content gets corrupted, to a point. Having the entire purpose of overcoming some fences and deviating from having to participate in the "universe". Let's say that 3/4 of playtime by association are overcome by use of alts. Why buy from the produces when a second account can do it for "free" ? Why employ a dedicated crafter when a third account can do it ?

Despite the time required to bring second accounts to these levels there's a lot that have been lost. Links with producers, contracts with crafters, transport guild, a lot can be done in the sandbox but, somehow we seem to not like these.

So, what is the purpose of spying in our little corner of the ocean ? What is at stake ?

There's nothing of importance in conquering empires. All the resources are readily available unlike in solid strategy games where trade is mandatory, and facilities for equipment manufacturing are by request wherever we wish with no limits. Veteran captains own ( even post wipe ) more ships than they will ever see sunk.

So why spying or breaking a game with alt use ? Pure grieving or shortcut of time ? Are the mechanics too lenient or are the players simply not interested in creating a OW age of sail ?

 

 

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37 minutes ago, Hodo said:

Some factions get a in game mechanic that lets them deal with alts... the rest of us get to listen to the alts talk trash in our nation chat.  

GG.

This sounds like exactly what Vicious was doing.  So admin said this:

On 4/8/2016 at 4:15 AM, admin said:

trolling national chat to disrupt it is from now on prohibited. 

If you are a spy - stay silent. If you admit you are an alt of another nation your alt will be permanently banned from chat.

Report open alts by using the report function. 

Report alts who are trolling and disrupting nation chat.   Report alts who are trying to lure unsuspecting nationals to ganks.  They will get permanently chat banned.

Edited by Prater

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18 minutes ago, Prater said:

This sounds like exactly what Vicious was doing.  So admin said this:

Report alts who are trolling and disrupting nation chat.   Report alts who are trying to lure unsuspecting nationals to ganks.  They will get permanently chat banned.

The alts get reported, nothing happens.

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That and the fact that we actually have to grind PvE to flip ports in order to try and get players into the OW to fight...

The funny thing is we actually had 24 or 25 ships (5th-1st rates) ready and willing to engage the BLACK guys..  Which is what they say they want.  Instead they had {NOIR}Le Grand Loupe, (very clever, by the way) puppy dog us the entire time we searched for the battle they said they wanted.  

Dots, indeed.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

That and the fact that we actually have to grind PvE to flip ports in order to try and get players into the OW to fight...

The funny thing is we actually had 24 or 25 ships (5th-1st rates) ready and willing to engage the BLACK guys..  Which is what they say they want.  Instead they had {NOIR}Le Grand Loupe, (very clever, by the way) puppy dog us the entire time we searched for the battle they said they wanted.  

Dots, indeed.

 

 

They don't want fights they could potentially lose.  This is why they night flip at 2am, odds are better when they defend.  

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21 minutes ago, Christendom said:

The alts get reported, nothing happens.

I'd report them, then make a tribunal.  This is a thread in the tribunal, admin declared them the rules.  Report them so they have the in game report, then tribunal them for public visibility and a public response.  Then post in game chat the link to your tribunal and the link to admin's rules on alts.  The publicity might scare the alts into not being cheap.  

Edited by Prater

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1 hour ago, Cortez said:

No problem with that.

It is a problem when you build a PVP game and ALT's start preventing PVP. It is a problem when you have to have ALTs to conduct PVP in a PVP game. It is a problem when you have to start your evening with "Who is going to kill the ALTs tonight so we can go PVP?", It is a problem when you start asking players to do the suck ass job of tackling ALTS so 24 others can have fun.  

In other games like Planetside or WWII Online where spying could be harmful to PVP they had an easy fix. You could kill someone on your team with certain limitations. The lack of Green on Green in NA has basically created an environment where ALT spying heavily contributes to the lack of PVP.

I have zero problem with spying but it ruins games when players have zero ability to deal with it.

When you have reached the point that people in coms starting saying "well... we have no body with ALTS playing tonight so maybe we should go play (insert your game here)" the ALT issue has moved from a minor to a major problem.

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Look, I have no problem with alts used for economic means, and or legitimate, in-real-life spying assuming that they are actually played, leveled, and used by the person in a way that is legit. But when a single clan, which constitutes the bulk of an entire nation, has 5+ alts in every other nation coupled with an automated way to monitor nation and clan chats that have been infiltrated?  This reinforces the pay-to-win nature of them to an extent that truly affects RvR and the balance of the game in meaningful ways.

See these for what we are up against on the Global Server. This is an automated tool that some clan, who shall rename nameless in order to not besmirch the characters of the innocent, has developed to automate the capture of nation chats through the use of logged in alts (notice the "Active Spies" count for each nation below). It's quite well made, where perceived leaders in each nation can be highlighted and PvP results as well in different colors. The joy is that this can be monitored when not even logged into the game so that you can be alerted immediately when things are happening in your area.  It's a great tool:

6d02aa0053e9900a24bb39bbd60ed4b5.png

92fdc4c2e9d5ec75780c702a9289930f.png 

b4183edd84b712cc433ef4a6039ddf70.png 

This was communicated in private to the developers and we were told to just "deal with it" as nation chat is insecure, blah blah blah. So my thinking on alts is that the dev's will take every additional sale with a shot of vodka, regardless of the sale's intended use, and that third party tools like the above will flourish as long as people are willing to make them. But what this creates is a highly asymmetric landscape of competition across an already unbalanced server, and unfortunately the dance between the win-at-all-costs mentality vs. mechanics to create a fun and competitive MMO game world is being won by the pirates (used loosely here of course).

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Heres Jobaset actually copy pasting directly from NAspy to the forums.  What I get kicks from is it actually highlights persons of interest within the nations they'd like to track.  Myself being one of them. 

The lengths some will go to get a leg up in video games is disgusting.  Frankly using a program like this should be a banable offense 

Edited by Christendom

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4 minutes ago, Christendom said:

 

The lengths some will go to get a leg up in video games is disgusting.  Frankly using a program like this should be a banable offense 

Agreed.

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23 minutes ago, Christendom said:

The lengths some will go to get a leg up in video games is disgusting.  Frankly using a program like this should be a banable offense 

Well, look how inconsistent the devs are about exploits. First, they try to patch them out, then they just give up and say they are ok what ever.

 

Edited by Daguse

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Funny they took down the website and tried to pen it on Christendom.   FUNNY AS HELL.

 

Can we just ban these sad sacks of wasted genetic material.  

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8 minutes ago, Hodo said:

Funny they took down the website and tried to pen it on Christendom.   FUNNY AS HELL.

 

Can we just ban these sad sacks of wasted genetic material.  

Good ole Joba. Always trying to pin his shortcomings on me.

kLGlfZg.png

Nice try fellas

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46 minutes ago, Daguse said:

Well, look how inconsistent the devs are about exploits. First, they try to patch them out, then they just give up and say they are ok what ever.

 

This isn't really an exploit though.  It is an out of game program that they cannot fully guard against.  Though, one way they could make it more difficult is encrypt the game logs so we can't read them.

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1 hour ago, Wraith said:

Look, I have no problem with alts used for economic means, and or legitimate, in-real-life spying assuming that they are actually played, leveled, and used by the person in a way that is legit. But when a single clan, which constitutes the bulk of an entire nation, has 5+ alts in every other nation coupled with an automated way to monitor nation and clan chats that have been infiltrated?  This reinforces the pay-to-win nature of them to an extent that truly affects RvR and the balance of the game in meaningful ways.

See these for what we are up against on the Global Server. This is an automated tool that some clan, who shall rename nameless in order to not besmirch the characters of the innocent, has developed to automate the capture of nation chats through the use of logged in alts (notice the "Active Spies" count for each nation below). It's quite well made, where perceived leaders in each nation can be highlighted and PvP results as well in different colors. The joy is that this can be monitored when not even logged into the game so that you can be alerted immediately when things are happening in your area.  It's a great tool:

6d02aa0053e9900a24bb39bbd60ed4b5.png

92fdc4c2e9d5ec75780c702a9289930f.png 

b4183edd84b712cc433ef4a6039ddf70.png 

This was communicated in private to the developers and we were told to just "deal with it" as nation chat is insecure, blah blah blah. So my thinking on alts is that the dev's will take every additional sale with a shot of vodka, regardless of the sale's intended use, and that third party tools like the above will flourish as long as people are willing to make them. But what this creates is a highly asymmetric landscape of competition across an already unbalanced server, and unfortunately the dance between the win-at-all-costs mentality vs. mechanics to create a fun and competitive MMO game world is being won by the pirates (used loosely here of course).

I don't give a shit what the devs said or wants - this should be a bannable offence, and I don't mean by a forthnight not being able to play - I mean forfeiting the alt accounts and the public ridiculing of the perpetrators. I don't mind alts for econ uses - god knows the devs has gone out of their way to make them more or less necessary.. This however is taking spying to a whole new level. I don't mind spying if that means one player needs to be physically active on the account but allowing this - why not allow a bot to lvl toons then? or allow a bot to do the tedious afk sailings? or allow a bot to do our traderuns? and when where getting there why not then scrap the entire point of OW?

I love the open world, I love hunting and I love trading as well. Even when I'm the one getting raked in the ass so hard I need a summer vacation just to get my mind straight. Got one of those rakes last week in my two indiamans (captains log is a bit overdue but I really did go on vacation which is why I haven't been on this past week). But if these automated tools are allowed then where's the point? If the devs allow one automated tool, where then to draw the line?

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Its actually pretty funny that the devs would ignore this (not sure if thats the case as I had no idea this existed until today)...

Why not just put a heat map in game??????

 

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9 minutes ago, Bearwall said:

I don't mind spying if that means one player needs to be physically active on the account but allowing this - why not allow a bot to lvl toons then? or allow a bot to do the tedious afk sailings? or allow a bot to do our traderuns? and when where getting there why not then scrap the entire point of OW?

I love the open world, I love hunting and I love trading as well. Even when I'm the one getting raked in the ass so hard I need a summer vacation just to get my mind straight. Got one of those rakes last week in my two indiamans (captains log is a bit overdue but I really did go on vacation which is why I haven't been on this past week). But if these automated tools are allowed then where's the point? If the devs allow one automated tool, where then to draw the line?

There have been many automated tools, this isn't the first one.  There used to be an automated tool for sailing afk and finding new ports when the devs were adding new ports every week.  Automated tools are easy to make because the logs store so much information.  If the devs encrypted the logs, then it would be harder, but not impossible.  Someone could easily make an automated tool for travel again, I wouldn't be surprised if there was one.

Edited by Prater

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