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[Serious] Server Health

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1 minute ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

Inb4...

Is there a good reason why the entire capital region shouldn't be a safe zone, to prevent the capital camp-ganking thing and give noobs some room to train, trade, run missions etc? 

 

 

I felt like camping a factions capital did significant damage to the server's population. People whos capital is being camped reduce their play time or take breaks.

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9 minutes ago, Davos Seasworth said:

I felt like camping a factions capital did significant damage to the server's population. People whos capital is being camped reduce their play time or take breaks.

This is true. Same with large "warbands" roaming the vicinity of big towns in other games.

So giving breathing space and nurturing the existence of any nation is more beneficial and becomes symbiotic. No commerce raiding without traders. No traders if towns get shutdown and players stop logging in.

While commerce raiding is a thing, acquiring the finesse to do it without much disruption requires much time doing reconnaissance.

I like that "exploration" self made content. It pays off for me and many others, no matter what nation they play. 

But, it is not a reason, it is all a symptom. The energy necessary to produce self-made content - read! acting a character in the west indies in the age of sail - is too much for the majority, either in time investment or caught in powerplay avalanche :)

 

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People should have at least a little space to just enjoy sailing their ships.  They should be able to sail around their home island without getting jumped IMMEDIATELY by someone camping the other side of the point from the harbor entrance, in full view of the fort.  Let the hunters lurk in the shadows beyond the borders of the capital region. 

 

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3 hours ago, JobaSet said:

I have completely lost all respect for you mate.  You are a mod that refuse to his job just like other mods here.  You take sides and let one side trash talk the other (99% nations trashing Pirates)  That is more of a problem than anything else in this game.  Its all one sided from the Losing group.  

I take the side of the game son. That's what you ain't getting :) Hence I do not care about which server it is, which nation it is. Once something shows - maybe - broken, it is time for all of us to sit and actually look at the scenario. That's whay we are testing all the options, why we did all this way since the very first iteration of the Open World.

But guess you simply will not sit at the same table as me. Perfectly fine as english is not my mother language as well so we wouldn't understand each other much.

I did play Pirate, as I did play and do play all nations in game for a lot of time, you know 3k hours not spent in one or two nations but all of them. I did proper pyracy, role playing the amount of share per crew, maximizing the loot, and not vouching for a unhistorical setup :) but that's me and the way I play the game. Impersonate a character perfectly acceptable to be in place during the age of sail in the west indies. No shortcuts. One account. One character.

There's not one way to play the game and we found ourselves a insurmountable wall, no matter what you convince yourself of.

 

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, Teutonic said:

I don't need finger pointing and it's best not to continue. Lets go on with what we as players can do for each other to help others who don't forum troll around here like we do.

So far it seems a Thunderdome area is the best option?

Lets go with Christendom and Bach's idea of stating 4-5 nations to be deemed "active" and the rest to be considered "dead." Does it suck? Sure, of course, but the population we have now just doesn't cut it.

Obvious 4 seem to be Pirate, US, Brits, French. 5th be Danes and the rest we write off as "dead nations." although they still have players and those players enjoy what they do, so be it.

where can us "big boys" go on the map to not be such oppressive shits to the rest of the noobs? Hispaniola? Cuba? dare i say the Gulf? Maybe we do need another Server meeting to hash it out.

My opinion on what needs to happen.

All players. clans, Nations must swear to abide by a few rules. Granted not everyone may follow, but if we get the majority of groups to abide by certain rules, all the better.

1. The "Voted Active Nations" must be allowed to take 1-2 regions (not including capital region) around their capital or a reasonable distance without harm from others. These Regions would be considered "sacred," in other words, other active nations shall NOT take these ports.

2. The "Voted Dead Nations" Are not to be harassed to death, if they have the pop and group to do so, they are allowed 1-2 regions as well. Active Nations DO NOT engage in offense RvR/PBs against the dead nation's "home regions." a good example of this currently is Sweden and the Dutch, they have been two "dead nations" that have ports and so far all parties have been trustworthy not to take ports from them.

3. Outside of the "Active Nations" home regions, RvR is allowed for all parties. Ow PvP is allowed at all places on the map

4. Nations and Clans from all sides agree on a few points on the map to become "Pressure Points." In other words, PvP, RvR, whatever is absolute free game AND players who wish to take part are to be told of these points on the map to go out and fight.

If All major parties form us all cannot come to some type of agreement like this, then I don't have hope for this server. Those who want to paint the map their color will do so and others will stop playing. Since all this RvR bullying shit happened Population has surely declined and that is definitely not at all what we all want.

It's not about getting an edge or hurting a group anymore, or starving folks of resources, or showing who's better at what. This is about keeping players wanting to play! We want players to lose ships and continue playing, not lose ships and quit. We are going the same road we did before the Wipe Patch, which was a dead server.

Stop pointing fingers!

 

This thread is for constructive purposes - for the better enjoyment of everyone on the server.  Please limit your comments to that objective. 

 

Let us discuss this idea of the "thunderdome" and see if we can work out some of the particulars to making it work.  

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30 minutes ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

People should have at least a little space to just enjoy sailing their ships.  They should be able to sail around their home island without getting jumped IMMEDIATELY by someone camping the other side of the point from the harbor entrance, in full view of the fort.  Let the hunters lurk in the shadows beyond the borders of the capital region. 

 

Half the fun in the ow pvp is the hunt and chase itself. 

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2 hours ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

Is there a good reason why the entire capital region shouldn't be a safe zone, to prevent the capital camp-ganking thing and give noobs some room to train, trade, run missions etc? 

There is one good reason:

Because the "capital safe zone" is used primarily by max level veterans who are grinding 1st rates. I don't see why that should be a "newbie zone" activity.

In EVE, highsec space only gave you newbie tier missions. You needed to get into lowsec for anything better (and nullsec had superior "open world" grinding).

 

So what we really need here is:
Home area "highsec" -- low level missions and basic ship ingredients only. You get NPC help here and battles never close for native defenders.
Everywhere else "nullsec" -- top 3 rank missions are here along with rare woods and trade goods (and maybe gold/silver).

Attackers also get reduced rewards (maybe reduced to 0) for kills in the "highsec" area.

But there is also little reason for veterans to live their entire lives in the safe zone -- they can't, if they want the good stuff.

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1 hour ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

People should have at least a little space to just enjoy sailing their ships.  They should be able to sail around their home island without getting jumped IMMEDIATELY by someone camping the other side of the point from the harbor entrance, in full view of the fort.  Let the hunters lurk in the shadows beyond the borders of the capital region. 

I thought the same thing, but have heard an explanation that this is an MMO.  Players should coordinate and protect fellow nationals.  People who like sailing should choose safe areas and safe times.  Players  should work together within their nation to make it difficult for the hunters to patrol inside the borders of a capital region.

 

1 hour ago, Davos Seasworth said:

Half the fun in the ow pvp is the hunt and chase itself. 

If I wanted to sail without any risk I would only use the PvE server and avoid the PvP server.  OW Pvp hunting and chasing creates a certain excitement and anticipation that is  missing on the PvE server.

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2 hours ago, The Red Duke said:

[...]

But, it is not a reason, it is all a symptom. The energy necessary to produce self-made content - read! acting a character in the west indies in the age of sail - is too much for the majority, either in time investment or caught in powerplay avalanche :)

I think this last point is a good one. This game is excellent at letting one play an age of sail captain. But that was a profession that left one at sea for months at a time - many players don't have time for extended play sessions (or have time only certain days of the week).

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1 minute ago, Macjimm said:

Players should coordinate and protect fellow nationals.

This is generally the argument for camping capital areas:

We know they have organized groups of high level players. That's who we really want to fight but we don't know where they are. Camping the capital is an effort to draw them out.

And, again, there's also a hope of catching the high level veterans grinding 1st rate missions, since a lot of people do that at capitals.

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24 minutes ago, Macjimm said:

I thought the same thing, but have heard an explanation that this is an MMO.  Players should coordinate and protect fellow nationals.  People who like sailing should choose safe areas and safe times.  Players  should work together within their nation to make it difficult for the hunters to patrol inside the borders of a capital region.

 

That would make the game into a chore that you'd have to do according to someone else's schedule.  I follow you around for 3 hours of hauling, you follow me around for 3 hours of hauling, we follow Dave around for 3 hours of hauling, let's sit outside Bob's missions for 3 hours, patrol the regions for 3 hours, etc.  People want to do their thing in a time effective manner, not convoy all day. 

 

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13 hours ago, admin said:

People move on to new entertainment and come back when you created something new and exciting. 

So eventually everyone will leave to new games (ours included). And its ok. 

its a journey. 

PvP players are long happy just because they can shoot other people.  PvE players are heavy, as they come to game and leave it once they have gone through the content.

I was not actually planning to leave from NA, I was planning to play this for years.  You just suddenly changed the game so that it is basically unplayable utter crap.  Change it back please.  You still have time before launch.  Your journey took you really far, but then you came hard down.  Climb back up please.  Naval Action wont die if you do right choices.

...

Before Naval Action, I was playing Elite Dangerous.  When I started to play it, I noticed that it is a HC PvE grind game.  I noticed that everything is just repeating itself, not much content really.  Took like 3 days to notice it.  I played it a lot for a year.  I was thinking that devs will fix it, there are things that are so obvious to fix that of course they will fix those.  They never did the most obvious things.  All I knew quit the game, I still believed that they will change it.  Well, they never did.

I found NA, you had already so many things correctly that were F*ed up in ED.  I was thinking that "Oh why Elite Dangerous cannot have this kind of PvP as well".  You know, you F*ed up NA pretty bad for me.  You in the end took Elite Dangerous path and you have HC PvE grind game in your hands.  You have better PvP, but it is so heavy PvE grind that PvP players do not want to touch your game any more.

Happy sheep does not mean that you will have happy wolves.

...

List of things to do...

1. Test signaling perk globally.  You have to do something for ganks and zergs.

2. Use similar system as flag system.  I wrote here 1 year ago maybe, that hostility does not fly because it is PvE grind.  This never came in your mind?  One big reason why people left, is this PvE grind.

3. Multiple repair kits in battles, Mass > Skill.  This simply does not work.  It creates shitty PvP.  Many has been telling you this, you did nothing?

4. Combat Mark prices for ships are too high.

5. Ship Knowledge can be HC grind, but then bonuses from books cannot be big.  Or Ship Knowledge grind is fastly done and bonuses are big.  Small bonuses create more historical and realistic feeling.  I recommend that you decrease grind and bonuses.

6. Upgrades should have small bonuses. Add also upgrade rare materials in game, so that those are more common.  You really do not understand that this serves absolutely and only that 1% of your HC players.

7. Your crafters and traders first idea failed.  Do not follow EVE.  Back to affordable ships.

8. We need 5 times more ships in this game, so that we reach similar levels of PvP as we had before.  Do you want that people always just dare to sail to PvP in a Surprise?  It should have been ringing the bells immediately when you saw that army of Surprises.

9. Getting tired to write this always..  You have read so many good ideas from here, and many are not even mine.  You still dont do anything.

...

People also get bored to games because those SUCK.

NA has not been even released, people are not bored to it.  You as a developer might be bored to it.  It is dying because you do stupid decisions, and that is the only reason.  It does not just die itself.  It is all your fault that this game dies.  There have been many people telling you so many good things.  You are just so incredibly stubborn.

I have seen all your nice posts there where you explain what next.  You understand that those things probably will fail as well.  Why?  Because Death Penalty is so high that people do not dare to sail to PvP.  Put this fact in your F*ing thick skull already.  What is so hard to understand in this?  When you join this with zerg&gank PvP, you have failed, like we all know.

Your game sucks because you, yourself, and only because of you.  You make bad decisions and the game is sinking.  If you made good decisions, everyone would be playing.

...

Right now there is no game like old Naval Action, not even Naval Action today is as good as that was.  I always thought you would be making it just better and better, but we went opposite.  I know plenty of players who are hoping that you fix your shit.

...

For many, this has to be possible...

They come home after work, feed their kids and do their stuff.  Evening comes and they have time for themselves, they login.  They say hello for their clan and ask whats up.  They buy a flag and sail to PvP.  This is how game was working for many in 2016.  You and only you F*ed it, none got bored, everyone wanted more.

These same guys, they do not want to grind bots for hostility.  It is a F*ing surprise right?  THEY DO NOT WANT TO SHOOT BOTS, THEY DO NOT WANT PVE.  Put this in your freaking thick skull as well.  It is not so damn hard to understand this.

They do not want to grind missions or bid from rare upgrade materials in ports.  They want WAR.  How the hell is this so F*ing hard to understand?  It is obvious they want Naval ACTION, they want WAR.  Are we entertained?  Well this is not gladiator, this is SERF.  Unfortunately playing a serf like we do in real life, is not what we want from our entertainment.  Oh, is this also so freaking hard to understand?

True, there are players who want to play a serf.  The % of these players is not high enough to make it to be #1 in a game.  You failed here, you made it to be #1.

Crafting repair kits, I understand your point.  Did you know that you could have left this part to be designed later?  It was priority #1000.  Old system for repair kits was better, because you did not have to be a serf once more.  You bought your repair kits and you sailed to WAR.  Things that you do are not making this game better.

For example capturing ships.  We can capture ships, we cannot capture ships, we can capture X rated ships, we cannot capture ships, we can capture... ... You do this because once again your best friend, Admiral Carbear Craft And Trade.  This person, stop listening him already.  There is a high change for following...  If we could capture every ship, but every ship would have a random build -> We would still craft ships.  ... Omg?!  Seriously?!  Cannot be!?  ...  But it is.  It is because you may have to grind 100 missions to get that specific ship you want, or you can craft it directly.  Which one you take?  I would craft my ships.  Lets agree now that you do not waste even a second more to this question, ok?  We can now capture ships up to X rate and thats it.  You can consider this again in far future, but before launch, do not waste your time.  We might get this game done one day if you would not waste time to useless stuff like this.

...

What ever you do for the next, make sure that it will support and increase the amount of PvP.  Make sure that most of the time we are shooting each other.  When people are tired and they login after work, make sure they come to Naval Action, and that they do not have to login back to serfdom.

I am not bored, I know plenty of guys who are not bored.  I want that you succeed, we want that you succeed.  I am not playing Naval Action, they are not playing Naval Action, but just because the current game sucks.  We are waiting that you fix it, we are not in the game, but we are here and waiting.  Hoping to play again one day.

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I appreciate what the spirit of the thread was, initially, but as we can see by the way it progressed that there still seems to be too much disparity in how certain groups each want to play the game, which makes it difficult to come together in an attempt to make our small community better than it is. It's hard for a small community such as PvP-Global to come together to make things more fun for all, when we can't sit down at a table without using our spoons to catapult peas at each other. 

 

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1 hour ago, Jarlath Morrow said:

I think this last point is a good one. This game is excellent at letting one play an age of sail captain. But that was a profession that left one at sea for months at a time - many players don't have time for extended play sessions (or have time only certain days of the week).

Yes. Requires time investment to do it all I think. Maybe mechanics to simulate career paths could've really helped... at some point... instead of expecting players to create something out of the entropia of liberty.

 

 

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1 hour ago, The Red Duke said:

Yes. Requires time investment to do it all I think. Maybe mechanics to simulate career paths could've really helped... at some point... instead of expecting players to create something out of the entropia of liberty.

 

 

Would be a nice addition to war companies *nudge nudge wink wink*

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1 hour ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

Before Naval Action, I was playing Elite Dangerous.  When I started to play it, I noticed that it is a HC PvE grind game.  I noticed that everything is just repeating itself, not much content really.  Took like 3 days to notice it.  I played it a lot for a year.  I was thinking that devs will fix it, there are things that are so obvious to fix that of course they will fix those.  They never did the most obvious things.  All I knew quit the game, I still believed that they will change it.  Well, they never did.

Heh, I enjoy the PVE game in Elite a lot.  In Elite there are always new places to go, more systems to take over and new factions to promote.  Flying never gets old.  (interdictions get VERY old though)  On the other hand PVE in NA is pretty much just about grinding money and XP the same way every day with no purpose beyond watching the numbers in the corner of the screen increase. When the NA server is down I'm flying in Elite promoting my pet factions and updating system info.  I don't like PvP in Elite at all, though. 

 

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5 hours ago, Davos Seasworth said:

I felt like camping a factions capital did significant damage to the server's population. People whos capital is being camped reduce their play time or take breaks.

Yes the weak gankers doing this will kill the game guaranteed and they are too thick headed to realise what they are doing. 

. I personally dont live in a capitol but visit when i need to. 

 

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@Teutonic I admire your commitment. The problem I see with a thunder dome of sorts is that, it was tried before on PvP2. I cannot remember the exact date but the nations all decided that Tumbado would be the place to go and get a good fight. And for a long while, it worked.

However this idea of a thunder dome to break the hug box can easily be ruined by the groups of people who use it, last time it ended due to a pure distrust of one another and that was it. Maybe I'm being pessimistic about the success of an arrangement such as this but I do have doubts. People gotta learn to overlook past transgressions, lest we all end up like the Dwarves in Warhammer with our big book of grudges :D

Good Luck. Hope something can work out.

J.A. de Castella

 

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6 hours ago, Slamz said:

You refuse to PvP until you have 5 slots unlocked.

Naw. We just need a few slots. And actual ships that can keep up with yours. Problem is we have tons of heavy 1st rates. We have lots of them spread all around the map. But there of no use against French because they just run from them, try to separate our smaller ships from our big ships, kill off the smaller force, and then go for the big ships when they don't have support. And we're not going to play like that. Pirates get a group of 5th rates to kill your smaller group of 5ths and you kite them back to a free town, come out in bigger ships, and stomp them. We don't play by your rules and we don't fight on your terms. 

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12 minutes ago, Duncan McFail said:

We don't play by your rules and we don't fight on your terms. 

I could respect this if the fighting part actually occurred. 

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17 hours ago, admin said:

imagine being a frigate captain during peace time :)

From reading the Patrick O;Brian and Dewey Lambdin novels my impression of peace time was that frigate captains sat around at half pay.  They were a nuisance to their wives....they went to the Admiralty office every few weeks looking for work, then they came back home and pestered their wives again.  Their highlight was when war finally broke out again. 

Fun times I'm sure.   :P

Edited by Chijohnaok

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Back to topic

The teams need to get mixed up/consolidated if we want each nation to be viable in each style of play. RvR, PvP, Econ and time zones.

If you want a shrunken map all we need do is get each competing nation a port near the center of the map that no one captures.  This is essentially a shrunken map.

RvR is relatively meaningless as we can all still build ships and such even if we only have the home county. If you want players to invest the time to RvR there needs to be some reward to it. Make an ante of gold or whatever to a winnable pot and let players contest over that somehow. No one is actually going to start RvR just because you wait and wait and wait for them too. They either see value in that style of play or they don't. Spreading out the RvR players will certainly help.

PvP needs ships on the waters and more players willing to take a risk.  Again, spreading out such minded players will certainly help.

I'm sorry but on Global we just don't have the population to support x8 nations competitively.  We need to be willing to move to a smaller number to create competitive nations.

France cannot really ally with Pirates.  This only looks good from the RvR conquest board. In reality and under the current server conditions it would create an almost unstoppable total war machine.  The division would need to be by play styles and time zones.

 

 

Edited by Bach

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22 minutes ago, Bach said:

Back to topic

The teams need to get mixed up/consolidated if we want each nation to be viable in each style of play. RvR, PvP, Econ and time zones.

If you want a shrunken map all we need do is get each competing nation a port near the center of the map that no one captures.  This is essentially a shrunken map.

 

 

This is the basis for a "Thunderdome."

Thunderdome is a term used in Eve Online that essentially was a Region or place in space (Regions are huge in eve online compared to naval action) that almost every major Alliance/Corporation would descend onto and it caused a HUGE deal of PvP and content. the Major alliances would all agree not to attack each others systems or structures and instead just do straight ship v ship PvP (NA version of this would be to not engage in taking ports within the designated area).

If we put it in terms of Naval Action and how we could play it. It would be like picking all the regions around La Tortue and La Navasse and giving 1 region to each other "active" nations. allowing for quick teleports and having all players know where to go to find PvP.

So for example

Sant Iago
PaP
Les Cayes
Cap Francios
Baracoa

Each region would be given to a different nation - not sure who would have what and that could be up for debate. But 5 regions given to 5 nations, Britain, US, Pirates, Denmark, France and boom, there you have your PvP all in the center of the map.

At least on first glance, I don't see a problem with this.

Edited by Teutonic

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1 hour ago, Vllad said:

I could respect this if the fighting part actually occurred. 

We've had 2 pb's in your area and 1 pb in our area that you initiated. None of which you've shown up to. Port battles are actually pvp if you bother to show up that is.

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3 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

Sant Iago
PaP
Les Cayes
Cap Francios
Baracoa

Nope. Pirates aren't giving up 5 ports right next to our capital for this idea. Make it away from capitals entirely. Nations don't need to be right next to the area. Just close enough to get there within 15 minutes. Look into the George Town area. Pirates, Brits, and French are already there. We'll givce the Danes Trinandad and Brits can give the US Pinar Del Rio.

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