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12 hours ago, Flinch said:

Get over it, 1 dura was the best thing to ever happen to this game. Besides you can capture free AI ships anytime now which is even more broken than duras.

yeah, it only took the player base from 1000 to 400...

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7 minutes ago, Quineloe said:

yeah, it only took the player base from 1000 to 400...

Can be true but we faced the same scenario with 5 duras. :(

 

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with 5 dura ships in August 2016 we had a thousand players online during prime time.

But we should be careful not to wrongfully assign credit here. The whole "no more exp and gold just for damage" thing might have been  just as damaging to the game.

Edited by Quineloe

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35 minutes ago, Quineloe said:

with 5 dura ships in August 2016 we had a thousand players online during prime time.

But we should be careful not to wrongfully assign credit here. The whole "no more exp and gold just for damage" thing might have been  just as damaging to the game.

Correlation does not imply causation. Lots of things changed in that time frame and there is no way to know what changes brought people into the game and out of the game. 

I for one started playing post wipe and stayed because or 1 dura. 

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so you don't know what the biggest changes are, compared to 2016 one year ago. Feel free to believe that the two things I've mentioned are the two biggest things. The third one probably is this whole permit and mark nonsense.

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6 minutes ago, Quineloe said:

so you don't know what the biggest changes are, compared to 2016 one year ago. Feel free to believe that the two things I've mentioned are the two biggest things. The third one probably is this whole permit and mark nonsense.

Wiping everyones progress probably turned off a few hundred people. Implying it will happen again keeps people away. 

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Thousands played when it was announced that there will be a full wipe. Actually the number of players went way up after all the assets were wiped. See Steam statistics for yourself.

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47 minutes ago, Quineloe said:

Thousands played when it was announced that there will be a full wipe. Actually the number of players went way up after all the assets were wiped. See Steam statistics for yourself.

I looked. Numbers tanked from the time of the annoucement to the wipe. They bounced back immediately post wipe as people checked out the game again. Then they rapidly tanked again since. 

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3 hours ago, Quineloe said:

with 5 dura ships in August 2016 we had a thousand players online during prime time.

But we should be careful not to wrongfully assign credit here. The whole "no more exp and gold just for damage" thing might have been  just as damaging to the game.

Of course. Same with "seen it all, what else is there?" situation. Many vets stopped playing and their slots got replaced by newcomers.

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While it Is fair to say a high proportion of naval battles were draws where neither Captain could keep the advantage and no-one received prize money from the admiralty courts (they did not get prize money if they sank their opponent either) in a game realism has to be sacrificed sometimes, so we get points for a sinking and for damage done by the victor and the highest scorers, the reverse of reality.

Now if you invest time, powder and shot into a drawn battle you should not be penalised by not receiving points for damage especially when you also pay to repair and re-crew your ships in a game. This is what actually happened if you sank or failed to take the enemy as a prize in real life and many Captains suffered financially for it.

Typically a capped ship would be assessed by the Admiralty courts and a value placed upon ship and cargo which was divided between the ships companies involved in the fight, in game a capped ship has no value while its cargo does, so it is half reality and half game modified.

I would argue that if you have given damage and you have taken damage then you should be rewarded in game in proportion to damage done to the enemy, if only to offset, even in part, damage received and crew lost.

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7 hours ago, BetaVape said:

With new sinking notification its should be easy to spot someone farming alts and just banhammer them.

 

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On 8/10/2017 at 7:00 PM, Quineloe said:

 

Thousands played when it was announced that there will be a full wipe. Actually the number of players went way up after all the assets were wiped. See Steam statistics for yourself.

 

Latest exodus happened after speed nerf since it killed ow pvp (solo and small group aka 90% of people doing pvp)

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On 10.8.2017 at 5:49 PM, Quineloe said:

yeah, it only took the player base from 1000 to 400

You're being delusional mate. Most players are glad the retarded super mario lives multiple duras are gone ( i haven't heard of anyone who liked multiple dura actually ) . Ship value is pretty close to the sweet spot now, unless you want to see everyone in victories and folks using 4th rates as fireships again. Every scrub can go out and cap a NPC surprise from the AI - sure it isn't the best ship but at the same time it is easy to get ( basically free ) and even crafting a surprise is super cheap. The people who quit over the removel of duras are the same sissies that wouldn't take any fights out of fear to lose 1 of their 5 duras, so who needs them anyways?

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On 10.8.2017 at 5:49 PM, Quineloe said:

yeah, it only took the player base from 1000 to 400...

Dude, if you still have a problem with 1 dura, just tell us exactly whats so bad about it.

Those numbers say absolutely nothing. 

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1 hour ago, Fargo said:

Dude, if you still have a problem with 1 dura, just tell us exactly whats so bad about it.

Those numbers say absolutely nothing. 

It is very easy: ships costs have not changed, but dura reduced by 4-5 means that ships are very expensive (in terms of money and LH) to make. Therefore, nobody wants to risk ships. Therefore, no PVP.

People complain about the grind: Average players loose more ships than they sink in PVP, so they need the grind. It is 5 hours of afk-sailing trading or boring PVE missions to afford a decent PVP ship with repairs and cannons. 

The economy is way out of balance. Right now, PVP shifts to buying or capturing cheap NPC ships, buy cheap medium cannons from PVE missions, then have fun again with disposable ships like it was before the patch.

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I've explained it like five times. Fargo won't digest it if you say it another five times.

 

3 hours ago, Captain Lust said:

You're being delusional mate. Most players are glad the retarded super mario lives multiple duras are gone ( i haven't heard of anyone who liked multiple dura actually ) . Ship value is pretty close to the sweet spot now, unless you want to see everyone in victories and folks using 4th rates as fireships again. Every scrub can go out and cap a NPC surprise from the AI - sure it isn't the best ship but at the same time it is easy to get ( basically free ) and even crafting a surprise is super cheap. The people who quit over the removel of duras are the same sissies that wouldn't take any fights out of fear to lose 1 of their 5 duras, so who needs them anyways?


"everyone" in victories? Funny example. Those already were 1 dura. Also funny example, we've already seen Port battles featuring EVERYONE in First Rates. Fifty of them. You say it like it's some theoretical, absurd level of ship availability,  but it's already reality as of early July.

Sure, go pvp in a free AI Caught surprise, oak + crew space, with medium cannons. Oh, you're not doing that. You just want everyone else to do that, so your finely tuned built ships have more targets to sink.
I think you're one of the people who wants to see this game melted down to 50 players, all of them super hardened elite.  So we have nothing to discuss, as we don't want the same game.

Let me ask you the other way around: how do you justify the massive cost reduction (in relation to all other ships) that first rates received in 10.0 ?

 

Edited by Quineloe

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On 10/8/2017 at 5:57 PM, The Red Duke said:

Can be true but we faced the same scenario with 5 duras. :(

 

After you changed combat mechanism to "realistic", reduced joining timers and killed PB for all. In feb 2016 this game was fun for 80%. Every player could participate in almost all aspects of the game. But the hard-cores took control and killed the game. In a battle the ships exploded and got sunk. It was much more fun to try to survive a battle and keep the ship floating. It was FUN. Now its stern-raking and surrendering all the time. Its not FUN. I was sitting on the edge of my chair back then. Now I gave up playing. Its not rocket-science.

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I think the higher player numbers are based on the fact that the game was "new" and many players wanted to reach max ship / craft lvl. Now after megapatch it became tedious to work all out from scratch together with the fact that you have to grind now a lot more than before. Therefore many long term players were lost. I can say that from my perspective because almost all friends I played with before the patch are now gone. (And I'm happy every time I meet an old companion in game though ...)

Surely player numbers go up again around release and then it's important to have a long term motivation to keep the guys "busy". For me personally it's a very odd thing that I can participate in a battle lasting lets say 1.5 hours in a fast surprise and my duty is to tag enemies so that they can't flee and after all I get no XP and no Gold reward. This is something that *has* to be changed quickly because it kills any serious motivation completetly. If the fear of alt abuse is here the main argument then I must say that you can't stop abuse. You simply can't at all. So dont hurt serious players with restrictions about things that happen anyway in this game and in every other online game too. Keep good things up (yes, 1 dura is in fact not that bad) and throw bad things overboard -- you will see it helps :-)

Edited by mikawa
typo

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34 minutes ago, Quineloe said:

Let me ask you the other way around: how do you justify the massive cost reduction (in relation to all other ships) that first rates received in 10.0 ?

What did I miss?

L'Ocean August 2016

L'Ocean Blueprint
\ XP: 4694
\ Labor: 1957
\ Ballast: 81
| \ Gold: 1215
\ Blocks: 162
| \ Gold: 810
\ Cables And Howsers: 98
| \ Gold: 11564
\ Canvas Rolls: 33
| \ Gold: 3300
\ Cordage And Oakum: 66
| \ Gold: 5412
\ Furnishings: 9
| \ Gold: 7164
\ Gold Coins: 125
| \ Gold: 46625
\ Iron Fittings: 110
| \ Gold: 28380
\ Knees: 118
| \ Gold: 59000
\ Large Carriage: 66
| \ Gold: 168036
\ Medium Carriage: 60
| \ Gold: 52320
\ Planks: 847
| \ Gold: 8470
\ Rigging Parts: 33
| \ Gold: 495
\ Rudder Parts: 73
| \ Gold: 5402
\ Tar: 21
| \ Gold: 630
\ Teak Frame Parts: 532
| \ Gold: 14364
\ Wooden Fittings: 263
| \ Gold: 3945
===
Total Gold: 417132
Total Labor: 1957

Total Gold: 417132
Total Labor: 1957

L'Ocean August 2017

 

L'Ocean Blueprint
\ XP: 4694
\ Labor: 1957
\ Blocks: 1052
| \ Gold: 53652
\ Cables And Hawsers: 98
| \ Gold: 5978
\ Canvas Rolls: 292
| \ Gold: 30952
\ Cordage And Oakum: 590
| \ Gold: 27730
\ Furnishings: 9
| \ Gold: 7218
\ Iron Fittings: 110
| \ Gold: 13970
\ Knees: 118
| \ Gold: 29500
\ L'Ocean Permit: 1
| \ Gold: 3000
\ Large Carriage: 66
| \ Gold: 15378
\ Medium Carriage: 60
| \ Gold: 9300
\ Provisions: 1100
| \ Gold: 40700
\ Rigging Parts: 292
| \ Gold: 45260
\ Rudder Parts: 363
| \ Gold: 16698
\ Tar: 102
| \ Gold: 3162
\ Teak Frame Parts: 2660
| \ Gold: 388360
\ Wooden Fittings: 263
| \ Gold: 3945
===
Total Gold: 694803
Total Labor: 1957

Total Gold: 694803
Total Labor: 1957

Edited by Skully
stupid editor

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19 minutes ago, fox2run said:

 Now I gave up playing. Its not rocket-science.

I think by now you should live by your own words. Ain't rocket science.

I can be a unique case but when a game ceases to deliver I simply let go and do not participate anymore :)

So... are you here due to wanting to provinde... FINALLY... a proper breakdown of your whole spectrum of suggestions that DOES cater to ALL playstyles and players ... ?

Appreciated both ways.

 

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9 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

I think by now you should live by your own words. Ain't rocket science.

I can be a unique case but when a game ceases to deliver I simply let go and do not participate anymore :)

So... are you here due to wanting to provinde... FINALLY... a proper breakdown of your whole spectrum of suggestions that DOES cater to ALL playstyles and players ... ?

Appreciated both ways.

 

Im not sure, I understand? Im here to say what I think works and what is NOT working. You had a game that worked to some extend and gave me the best multiplayer experience I ever had as a player. And that means something as I have been playing games for decades. Something went terrible wrong, though. Try these simple suggestions:

1) ships should be affordable to loose

2) an average gamer has something like between 1-3 hours aviable each night. In this time he likes a few battles or similar fun. (Trading, building etc.).

3) PvP has to be different and varied. (Drop Port Battles altogether and make the open sea the only place to setup battles, make fixed positions for each shiptypes in each battle, make lobby, work on ROE - dont be afraid to fail). 

4) Make the single-player feel he is a part of a nation. 

5) Clans will always be there. DO NOT make them backbone of a pc-game. It will never work. Single players is what make this game running.

6) combat has to be exciting like Im sitting on the edge of my chair. You gave me this feeling somewhere around feb-april 2016. Maybe a bit longer. But now they are more boring, I feel. Make the cannons mean something. 

Edited by fox2run

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26 minutes ago, fox2run said:

4) Make the single-player feel he is a part of a nation. 

5) Clans will always be there. DO NOT make them backbone of a pc-game. It will never work. Single players is what make this game running.

I'm afraid clans are the only true alliances. You may not like it, but it is a fact of life.

The game can never extend that feeling. Nor can the game provide organisation. Didn't I prove this to you the hard way? ;)

You can however sail the ocean as a solo, but that role is currently reserved for Pirates only.

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