Preliminary discussion of the changes to conquest - clan wars are coming

[Captain corn blower]

Remember guys it's a game and some l thing that are being sujested really getting out there and stupid .also remember there's only 1 conne and 1 victory not hundreds sailing back then .let's keep it fun or I will never leave batea

Edited August 7, 2017 by Captain corn blower

[Vernon Merrill]

2 hours ago, z4ys said:

Wont solve the problem that people will still be hunted in their rooki zone (because thats where players will be so to find ow pvp you have to go there). Therefore nothing really changes. People / new people will still lose everything and lose interest  in the game and leave.

 

What we need are frontlines. so staying behind the line means you might be more than safe. Getting closer to the line means you might be safe. Going over the line you are not safe anymore.

What about THIS?

 

[z4ys]

 

3 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

What about THIS?

 

...

would you care about gold/ xp  / whatever when you know you will have a fight for sure with a rate >80% in the green zone?

I wouldnt care. Captureing gives no marks no xp no gold. I dont care.

Edited August 7, 2017 by z4ys

[JobaSet]

3 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

What about THIS?

 

Not bad but why did you not center it around mort. To make Pirate even harder. Just saying

Edited August 7, 2017 by JobaSet

[Armored_Sheep]

Admin showed the stats about how much players actually participate in RvR. Do we have any numbers about OW PvP that is not related to PB screening or any other well announced event in the area of fight? It would be interesting how many of these fights happen in "carebear zones" and how many individuals cause that...

Edited August 7, 2017 by Armored_Sheep
add

[Hodo]

40 minutes ago, JobaSet said:

Then there is the broken mechanics on top of that. Do tell I would love more info on this.

Covered it below that statement

The issue is compounded by the fact that pirates can tag their own AI fleets can deny people from getting to them.   If pirates sink them it doesnt count as hostility.   But nationals can tag in our own fleets even if we wanted to.   

 

40 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

That is not a pirate region only problem that is every national own regions. You hardly see anything bigger than 5th rate ships and maybe a 4th rate.  There have only been a few regions we found 3rd rates and even more rare is the one or two big fleets that have a 2nd rate in it.   Those are normally in the regions worth three points.    It's just retarded how few ships we find in regions. While all the while we are finding ships of every other nation all around the region (which makes it easier to grind down agro).   We use to hit those super fleets pre-patch that have almost as many  ships as epic missions and they would give ups any where from 30-50% agro.   Half the time pre-patch that was what we did when folks though we where war bombing them.  We hit those mega fleets and flip a port in one or two of them.  Now even when you find them they don't have the ships they list, they have up to the BR that list which doesn't match the list of ships.  

For some reason I dont believe you.  While I want to say you are right, many times I sail through regions where people are working on hostility or the planned area of attack and I see nothing, or maybe one or two fleets at most.   Yet there are 5 or 6 other fleets out there from other nations or your own nation.   

Then there are the fact that Epic missions do nothing for you in RVR or really anything just a wasted mechanic.  

[Vernon Merrill]

15 minutes ago, JobaSet said:

Not bad but why did you not center it around mort. To make Pirate even harder. Just saying

Joba, I tried to center it around the center of the map, mate...  It's my understanding from the admin's posts in this thread that the capturable ports and strategic resources are to be centered in this area...  

I'm not sure of the exact dimensions of this zone...  It's just a concept.

[Vernon Merrill]

18 minutes ago, z4ys said:

 

would you care about gold/ xp  / whatever when you know you will have a fight for sure with a rate >80% in the green zone?

I wouldnt care. Captureing gives no marks no xp no gold. I dont care.

I personally do NOT.   But it seems like many do?

[JobaSet]

2 minutes ago, Hodo said:

Covered it below that statement

The issue is compounded by the fact that pirates can tag their own AI fleets can deny people from getting to them.   If pirates sink them it doesnt count as hostility.   But nationals can tag in our own fleets even if we wanted to.   HEHE i get i forgot we could do that, i can tell you with little no i mean No dought this dose not happen on Global we want you to flip a port then come and battle just not 2 at the same time

 

For some reason I dont believe you.  While I want to say you are right, many times I sail through regions where people are working on hostility or the planned area of attack and I see nothing, or maybe one or two fleets at most.   Yet there are 5 or 6 other fleets out there from other nations or your own nation.  

Then there are the fact that Epic missions do nothing for you in RVR or really anything just a wasted mechanic.  

 

[z4ys]

Just now, Vernon Merrill said:

I personally do NOT.   But it seems like many do?

In my opinion just the poeple who are our victims. It should and has to be something that effect us and not them.

[z4ys]

Just now, Vernon Merrill said:

I personally do NOT.   But it seems like many do?

In my opinion just the poeple who are our victims. It should and has to be something that effect us and not them.

[Vernon Merrill]

Just now, z4ys said:

In my opinion just the poeple who are our victims. It should and has to be something that effect us and not them.

We tend to go where the people are at...  If increased rewards/resources bring people to a concentrated area, that works for me...

 

[z4ys]

Just now, Vernon Merrill said:

We tend to go where the people are at...  If increased rewards/resources bring people to a concentrated area, that works for me...

 

Yeah but we are the folks that keep playing while all other stop playing. So in my opinion somethings has to happen so people stay and keep playing the game. That dont mean we have to give up everything but we should at least share and find a compromise.

[JobaSet]

1 minute ago, Vernon Merrill said:

We tend to go where the people are at...  If increased rewards/resources bring people to a concentrated area, that works for me...

 

Agreed but may need to be even more of a bump than you are thinking

[Sir Texas Sir]

7 minutes ago, Hodo said:

Covered it below that statement

The issue is compounded by the fact that pirates can tag their own AI fleets can deny people from getting to them.   If pirates sink them it doesnt count as hostility.   But nationals can tag in our own fleets even if we wanted to.   

 

For some reason I dont believe you.  While I want to say you are right, many times I sail through regions where people are working on hostility or the planned area of attack and I see nothing, or maybe one or two fleets at most.   Yet there are 5 or 6 other fleets out there from other nations or your own nation.   

Then there are the fact that Epic missions do nothing for you in RVR or really anything just a wasted mechanic.  

You mean like France and GB have been tagging each other out side Mort to hide in a battle and than come out?  Don't act like we are the only nation that has done it.  You can join those pirate battles you know.  If a pirate tags another pirate the battle stays open until it's over and can be seen.  Just camp the battle is all.  Oh wait you will just pull the plug (Alt+F4) to not get out of it as we caught a lot of Brits doing after fights (when we took PnP and SLM) and knowing we had a fleet out side waiting for them.  So stop this your nation is all sweet and innocent like man.  You would know this if you actually got off the forums and played the game.

You can believe what you want but since you don't really do RvR I'll take my experience being involved in just about every Pirate flip and port battle since patch with one of my chars.  How many do you actually have under your belt?   Not many and guess what it's the same in all regions.  Ask any one else that tried to flip ports the AI selection blows and it takes for every.  Hell that is the reason we bombed Bermuda to 60% cause we didn't want to be out there 5 hours grinding or two fleets we have to keep the lead ship alive to recycle it over and over.

Did you know on defense you don't have to kill the fleets of the nation that is attacking you?  You can kill any AI in your region (except own nation we tested it with Pirate Ai) and it will lower the Agro, while the attacker can only attack the nation of the owner of the region?  This makes it easier for defenders to grind down hostility.  It's very much stacked against attackers no matter what nation you are.

I hope we all know Epic missions don't hostility nor does missions.   Though some folks might want to grind them for the XP/LOOt.  We been trying to find Curse ones since patch to grind out just for the XP/Loot but they are apparently gone too from the game.

[Anne Wildcat]

People should create their own end game, goals, in NA. Mine is to get good at PVP, outside of groups, and live off captured ships. Still working on it.  Coming from POTBS there was a (weak) storyline there. But what was the endgame there? There was no one thing & you are done. Heck, there the game got good at max lvl. I'm still trying to work on getting that jury rigged barrel, or whatever it's called. I guess I don't understand 'end game' in a MMO. End game in a single player game, sure, but not in a MMO. 

[Vernon Merrill]

1 minute ago, Wraith said:

I don't think it even needs to be rewards.. It needs to be content. It's been well over a year where the only new content in Naval Action is RvR. This is unacceptable and not a way to increase your player base. 

Player-generated content, that increases opportunities for PvP is what this game needs. The pirates enjoy one more piece of content in this regard in free-for-all battles, which I believe is b.s. and should be opened up to all nations, but in reality this is all veneer on the fact that there's not enough to do for essentially a declining population of max-ranked players whose end-game is as thin as the current RvR system facilitates.

I dont necessarily disagree...  However, it's beginning to seem like what WE want as players is beyond what the Devs initially promised...

They promised ships and combat...  We want a fully fleshed-out MMO with econ/char building/RvR...

I'm down to 1.6 cents/hour of game time..  Its hard for me to complain.  

But yes, I hope they can come up with a combination of mechanics that allows everyone to enjoy the game, regardless of their playstyle.

[Dharus]

2 minutes ago, z4ys said:

Yeah but we are the folks that keep playing while all other stop playing. So in my opinion somethings has to happen so people stay and keep playing the game. That dont mean we have to give up everything but we should at least share and find a compromise.

Successful RvR requires 25 organized people for consistent competitive PBs.  You'll probably need another 10 as alternates for times when players dont show.  Unless you dual box or cross team using of alts, you'll need 30 to 35 dedicated players for all time zones to show up at a specific time.  That doesn't work for people with jobs, school, families because it's not flexible.  It leans to feelings of..."meh, why bother.  It's too much work."

That's why i say ditch PBs for RvR.  Make it based on 3 day OW pvp and make PBs raids and reward those (page 34 post).  I get it that some think PBs are the "elite" experience however it's inflexible design puts off players especially when things like grinding pve for hours, npc counter grinding, pulling fleets off the OW, etc happen.  This isn't PvP... its working around mechanics to create advantage which is very common in games.

 

 

[Sir Texas Sir]

2 minutes ago, Wraith said:

The end-game in any MMO in my opinion is where social dynamics begin to overtake game mechanics in determining what players experience in the game itself. I can't remember who said it first, it wasn't me but I agree with it, is that Naval Action has evolved (very slowly) into the world's worst and most cumbersome match-making lobby for naval ship-on-ship action. What the OW part of the game is missing are the tools for facilitating social dynamics beyond 25 v. 25 port battles. This includes a vibrant economy, things that change the game world and allow players to affect that world through alliances, intrigue, economic warfare, politics, and all other avenues of social interaction beyond pew pew.

I believe that some of what @admin has proposed will greatly change that end-game content for the better, especially if he sticks to the plan for allowing intra-nation War Company fighting and battles. But I think it could still be improved by making player reputations more fluid between factions/nations/war companies, etc.

Now that I think of the concept I'm liking it more and more, but we really need a proper Reputation system in game and some Pirate mechanics so they aren't just another nation.   EIther make them true pirates or make them Privateer factions or something.  If they are taken out of the RvR side you will see more Nations actually fighting each other and prob more OW PvP.  Though the problem is you can't force folks to fight in OW or PB.  The majority of the players are made up of casual players that log on for an hour or two a few times a week.  We need more content for those players to stick around and I don't think one nation should be able to crush another nation like the current system unless we have map resets every couple of months.  Other wise the game grows stale.  There needs to be incentive for folks to go into the hot zones and fight over them.  Making it so every one gets the same rewards or can get them isn't going to do that. If they go to the new system I think they can prob go back to sperating some of the PvP content from the PvE content and than have a few things that are RvR content, but don't make them items you have to have or part of the meta to lock out other nations.  9

That way the crafts that want the semi safe zones can stay around the coast lines, they can still get pulled in PvP if caught out and about, but they are involved with loosing every thign.  That leaves the RvR guys to fight over the center of the map with the PvP guys hopefully with hunting grounds all over the place.  Those rare/rich goods got to get back to the port where you have your production at any way don't they?

I really did like the concept of doing the Gulf as the PvE zone in game, but if they don't ever come back to that, the gulf prob needs to go as the map just to big for the server pops. If you want more fights you need to make the map smaller or cut out a lot of the regions and speed up open world travel more. I would prefer to make the map smaller if they are going to do that.

[Hodo]

30 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

You mean like France and GB have been tagging each other out side Mort to hide in a battle and than come out?  Don't act like we are the only nation that has done it.  You can join those pirate battles you know.  If a pirate tags another pirate the battle stays open until it's over and can be seen.  Just camp the battle is all.  Oh wait you will just pull the plug (Alt+F4) to not get out of it as we caught a lot of Brits doing after fights (when we took PnP and SLM) and knowing we had a fleet out side waiting for them.  So stop this your nation is all sweet and innocent like man.  You would know this if you actually got off the forums and played the game.

You can believe what you want but since you don't really do RvR I'll take my experience being involved in just about every Pirate flip and port battle since patch with one of my chars.  How many do you actually have under your belt?   Not many and guess what it's the same in all regions.  Ask any one else that tried to flip ports the AI selection blows and it takes for every.  Hell that is the reason we bombed Bermuda to 60% cause we didn't want to be out there 5 hours grinding or two fleets we have to keep the lead ship alive to recycle it over and over.

Did you know on defense you don't have to kill the fleets of the nation that is attacking you?  You can kill any AI in your region (except own nation we tested it with Pirate Ai) and it will lower the Agro, while the attacker can only attack the nation of the owner of the region?  This makes it easier for defenders to grind down hostility.  It's very much stacked against attackers no matter what nation you are.

I hope we all know Epic missions don't hostility nor does missions.   Though some folks might want to grind them for the XP/LOOt.  We been trying to find Curse ones since patch to grind out just for the XP/Loot but they are apparently gone too from the game.

Easy there kid.  

I didnt say anything about players tagging each other to hide in battle.  I said killing your own AI to deny anyone from grinding them for hostility.   So calm down, stop banging on your keyboard.   

Oh and I do play, and login and do things.  Probably more than you lately.   So dont try and be Mr "Do you even lift" gino dude.   

[Skully]

On 8/2/2017 at 3:57 PM, admin said:

Pirate republic capital might move to Nassau (with a secondary capture able capital in Mortimer)

I like the idea to make it really hard on Pirates to get the ball rolling, but they do need a deep Free Port nearby to store their captures until they are ready to make the jump.

Otherwise I think it would be impossible for Pirates to capture a 4th rate port, let alone a deep one.

[Skully]

9 hours ago, admin said:

• AI DOES NOT MAKE ANY RESOURCE OR/AND MATERIAL. With the exception of trading resources and rare woods. 
• AI DOES NOT HAVE ACCESS TO CONTRACTS

As a result you cannot get blocked by AI or you cannot be outcompeted by AI. All resources/materials sold on market were brought there by players or listed by players.

I still consider these 2 things to be bad. Previously AI did have production, but it tended to be a monopolist. Now without any production it makes the map feel (and be) empty.

AI not interacting with contracts leads to other issues. Like the lottery issue: http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/15169-sell-contract-does-not-interact-with-port/

 

AI should be a full market participant in a free market, but never one with overbearing market power.

[Prater]

6 hours ago, Armored_Sheep said:

IMHO Alts are in game because there is either

1) low content for a single player to entertain alone

or

2) the game is too hard for one to control

I don't agree with you, maybe because that's not why I first got an alt.

Alts are for spying or pvping against anyone, i.e. even those your main has an agreement to not attack.

[JobaSet]

2 minutes ago, Prater said:

I don't agree with you, maybe because that's not why I first got an alt.

Alts are for spying or pvping against anyone, i.e. even those your main has an agreement to not attack.

lol wow if that is all you use it for you wasted your money.  But if you did do it for this reason you are actually hurting the game because you are not producing anything or results.

[Captain Lust]

11 hours ago, admin said:

check this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casa_de_Contratación  chartered companies existed and established control over cities and towns. Sometimes they fought each other. 
resources were never in the historical places with the exception of woods and fish
don't forget its a game too. Companies solve alt problem. Less problems = better game. 

Just make it happen before people leave again waiting for map reset, please...