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15 hours ago, Jester Jake Jackson said:

We like to eat cake, we like to eat nuts, 

We can't move our ass, magnificent fats! 

We don't like the gym, all work and no play,

For our validation, we'll grind ships all daaay! 

You're pumping your abs, we're pumping XP,

You're dating them lasses, we sink ships for free! 

When you come back home, and want to set sail,

Why should we be equal? That would really faaail! 

The one who grinds...

The one who grinds...

The one who griiiiinds! 

Should win all the fights! Hooray! 

S1DWT0l.gif

Witty but also sh*tty. :D

Your addiction does not give you leave to support a game that's become boring to most former players. Nevertheless, I like your ditty. :D

 

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On 8/1/2017 at 8:34 AM, Prater said:

I'm talking about blueprints, specifically 5-7 rates, has nothing to do with 1st rates.  When durabilities were taken away, they didn't divide resource cost by 5, so the cost of ships is significantly more than it used to be.  Before we bought 5 ships, now we buy 1, but the cost isn't that much different.  For small ships it is the same, and for 5th rates, it is maybe 10-40% cheaper, wood being the determining factor.

:o

Aug 21st 2016

Surprise Blueprint
\ XP: 1404
\ Labor: 589
\ Ballast: 25
| \ Gold: 375
\ Blocks: 49
| \ Gold: 245
\ Cables And Howsers: 30
| \ Gold: 3540
\ Canvas Rolls: 10
| \ Gold: 1000
\ Cordage And Oakum: 20
| \ Gold: 1640
\ Iron Fittings: 33
| \ Gold: 8514
\ Medium Carriage: 24
| \ Gold: 20928
\ Planks: 254
| \ Gold: 2540
\ Rigging Parts: 10
| \ Gold: 150
\ Rudder Parts: 22
| \ Gold: 1628
\ Small Carriage: 20
| \ Gold: 7060
\ Tar: 7
| \ Gold: 210
\ Teak Frame Parts: 160
| \ Gold: 4320
\ Wooden Fittings: 79
| \ Gold: 1185
===
Total Gold: 53335
Total Labor: 589

Aug 10th 2017

Surprise Blueprint
\ XP: 1404
\ Labor: 589
\ Blocks: 64
| \ Gold: 3264
\ Cables And Hawsers: 6
| \ Gold: 366
\ Canvas Rolls: 18
| \ Gold: 1908
\ Cordage And Oakum: 36
| \ Gold: 1692
\ Iron Fittings: 7
| \ Gold: 889
\ Medium Carriage: 24
| \ Gold: 3720
\ Provisions: 240
| \ Gold: 8880
\ Rigging Parts: 18
| \ Gold: 2790
\ Rudder Parts: 22
| \ Gold: 1012
\ Small Carriage: 20
| \ Gold: 2280
\ Tar: 7
| \ Gold: 217
\ Teak Frame Parts: 160
| \ Gold: 23360
\ Wooden Fittings: 16
| \ Gold: 240
===
Total Gold: 50618
Total Labor: 589

Why the hell are we still discussing grind and is this not simply fixed?

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Doesn't look fixed to me.  1 durability cost 10667 plus labor hours then, now 1 durability costs 50618 plus labor hours.  Let's also mention over 1 mil worth of modules.

Edited by Prater

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42 minutes ago, Prater said:

Doesn't look fixed to me.  1 durability cost 10667 plus labor hours then, now 1 durability costs 50618 plus labor hours.  Let's also mention over 1 mil worth of modules.

That is one of the other minor complaints I have had this whole wipe.  They never adjusted the labor, or cost of production of ANYTHING with the reduction of durability.  It doesnt hurt me as bad but it is a pain in the butt for many.

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1 hour ago, Hodo said:

That is one of the other minor complaints I have had this whole wipe.  They never adjusted the labor, or cost of production of ANYTHING with the reduction of durability.  It doesnt hurt me as bad but it is a pain in the butt for many.

That's why I can't play anymore. They promised it would be cheaper with one dura.

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43 minutes ago, Pad Seayew said:

That's why I can't play anymore. They promised it would be cheaper with one dura.

You get cheap ships from the NPC, cheap cannons and repairs from PVE missions.

However, the player based economy is so screwed up, you can never ever substain losses in PVP.

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10 hours ago, Prater said:

Doesn't look fixed to me.  1 durability cost 10667 plus labor hours then, now 1 durability costs 50618 plus labor hours.  Let's also mention over 1 mil worth of modules.

Add on top of Cannons.

before? 1 cannon

now? need as many as the slot needs. On top of labor hours, and resources.

Oh and those repairs? resources, labor hours, time sink.

It's not fixed in the slightest.

I have dealt with the new crafting and it is managable for a player like me who doesn't mind a grind...but I know so many more who logged in day 1 of the wipe patch and in 5 minutes were so disgusted by the changes they have decided to not come back until the release of the game to try it one last time.

I could count a good 20-30 players I know/knew who have decided not to play because of the grind and crafting mess, were they going to play anyway? maybe not, but this could have been prevented.

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7 hours ago, Pad Seayew said:

That's why I can't play anymore. They promised it would be cheaper with one dura.

You can't raise 60k for a Surprise?

I made more money than that just dumping looted medium cannons into sell contracts.

I think this is all psychological and ignores all the easy money we can get from trade goods now, too.

Or from dumping crafted goods into free ports. That's easy money too.

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48 minutes ago, Slamz said:

You can't raise 60k for a Surprise?

Gold isn't the true currency. Labor hours and real time is.

Given that the blueprints haven't been reduced w.r.t. material requirements your real time investment (hauling etc) remains the same.

Labor hours has literally remained the same.

So in effect a 1 dura (5th) ship is costing 5 times more in time (/ on the clock).

A quick fix might be triple both labor hour regeneration and wallet. It would do nothing however to real time effort and might become an issue if it would need to be changed back again.

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7 minutes ago, Skully said:

Gold isn't the true currency. Labor hours and real time is.

Given that the blueprints haven't been reduced w.r.t. material requirements your real time investment (hauling etc) remains the same.

Labor hours has literally remained the same.

So in effect a 1 dura (5th) ship is costing 5 times more in time (/ on the clock).

A surprise doesnt need much material tho and labor hours regenerate passively even when not in game. It's just people being sissies and don't want to risk losing a ship no matter how cheap it is...

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17 minutes ago, Captain Lust said:

A surprise doesnt need much material tho and labor hours regenerate passively even when not in game. It's just people being sissies and don't want to risk losing a ship no matter how cheap it is...

Given that we can not change people I fail to read any concrete proposal or constructive counter-argument in your statement.

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1 hour ago, Skully said:

Given that we can not change people I fail to read any concrete proposal or constructive counter-argument in your statement.

That's right... as long as people play like mammering elf-skinned malt-worms it doesn't matter how many duras ships have or how cheap you make them... they will always find excuses.

 

~ replaced derogatory term with a more appropriate euphemism ~ the moderation team

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1 hour ago, Captain Lust said:

That's right... as long as people play like mammering elf-skinned malt-worms it doesn't matter how many duras ships have or how cheap you make them... they will always find excuses.

Only when all excuses are neutralized would your statement become truth.

So lets start by neutralizing them.

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1 minute ago, Skully said:

Only when all excuses are neutralized would your statement become truth.

So lets start by neutralizing them.

That's easy... make all ships free and remove OW so they can't lose anything and don't have to sail a bit to get their fight... so basically NA Legends arena mode. By excuses i mean they make up excuses and blame the game mechanics for their lazy sissy asses.

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1 hour ago, Slamz said:

You can't raise 60k for a Surprise?

I agree, ships are cheap enough... even if you dont have the bit of gold to build one you can even cap a NPC one that comes with guns equipped. The real problem is upgrades costing up to tenfold the ship value... copper plate 500k - 1mil if you can find someone selling it at all? just make it craftable again ffs... also all books should be available for Combat Marks ( the rarer ones 500 a pop maybe? ) and pvp should yield at least 10x more marks and ship knowledge...

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27 minutes ago, Captain Lust said:

By excuses i mean they make up excuses and blame the game mechanics for their lazy sissy asses.

Sure, but if the choice is having a player and lower barrier to entry or having no player and higher barrier to entry, then I see the obvious choice we need to make.

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5 minutes ago, Skully said:

Sure, but if the choice is having a player and lower barrier to entry or having no player and higher barrier to entry, then I see the obvious choice we need to make.

I don't disagree with you but the question is... how much lower does the barrier to entry need to be? At some point sinking a ship doesnt hurt your enemy at all and becomes somewhat meaningless. Then soon we will be back to pre wipe where everyone has 12 Victories and 8 L'Oceans parked in docks... gold is becoming more and more worthless again already due to people generating huge amounts out of thin air with missions and trading... Capping a surprise from AI is basically a free ship... all you paid was a few minutes and some minor repair costs...

Edited by Captain Lust

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Hmmm, good point... maybe "hoarding" shouldn't be a thing in a naval themed MMO based in history ?

There were stocks of supplies but truly rarely stocks of fleets :) unless in peace time, but that ain't hoarding at all.

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2 minutes ago, Captain Lust said:

gold is becoming more and more worthless again already due to people generating huge amounts out of thin air with missions and trading...

Ergo, gold isn't the true currency. The labor hour regeneration and wallet are, and provide equal power to new players and veterans.

If folks want to park a shitload of ships, then so be it. Lower the barrier first, then lets look at incentives to actually sink.

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6 minutes ago, Skully said:

If folks want to park a shitload of ships, then so be it

If ships have no value then we might aswell all go play the arena version as soon as its available... i know i will be switching anyways...

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55 minutes ago, Skully said:

Ergo, gold isn't the true currency. The labor hour regeneration and wallet are, and provide equal power to new players and veterans.

If folks want to park a shitload of ships, then so be it. Lower the barrier first, then lets look at incentives to actually sink.

Don't have much time to type and enter in details but LH's are not anymore a thing with how easy it is now to generate 10x Labor contacts of 500hours each in game...  and either make millions selling those to who don't know or craft dozen of ships one after the other when it comes to clans able to grind numerous combat marks ... LH's lost the entire purpose they had before when they made the creation of LC's that easy and cheap ...
 

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14 hours ago, Skully said:

Total Gold: 50618 Total Labor: 589

Labour hours have implicit costs as well.

If you look at labour contracts in capitals, for example Gustavia is 75k for 500 LH that cost 50k to make. So it is 25k for 500 LH, making one LH cost about 50g. 

So the real costs of a naked surprise is about 80k gold. I dont know if LH for materials are counted in already. Also, you need to supply cannons as well, and I am not talking about cheap mediums you get from missions, but crafted ones.

So the final price for a 1 durability Surprise is even higher than it was for a 5 durability Suprise before the wipe patch.

This makes the grind really unbearable.

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I though that the grind was horrendous at first, trying to unlock all the slots on all the ships, and make as much money as possible.

Then I had a moment of realization. Why am I grinding? what do I want in this game? I was looking for PVP and grinding the get the best PVP ship possible.

Now when I play, I don´t care as much. I take my ship with only 1 or 2 slots unlocked, with only a gazell figurhead and hunt traders. For me this is fun. I have a set amount of money that I strive to have at all times, around 1 million. If I need money I craft some cannons and put them on contract. I can easily replace my ship, should it sink.

The grind is what you make of it.

 

This game is a MMORPG and it takes time and effort to be the best, as in all MMORPG´s. People seems to forget this and expect to be the best quickly.

 

A side note is that I don´t participate in RVR, other than in a screening fleet.

 

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1 hour ago, Demsity said:

I though that the grind was horrendous at first, trying to unlock all the slots on all the ships, and make as much money as possible.

Then I had a moment of realization. Why am I grinding? what do I want in this game? I was looking for PVP and grinding the get the best PVP ship possible.

Now when I play, I don´t care as much. I take my ship with only 1 or 2 slots unlocked, with only a gazell figurhead and hunt traders. For me this is fun. I have a set amount of money that I strive to have at all times, around 1 million. If I need money I craft some cannons and put them on contract. I can easily replace my ship, should it sink.

The grind is what you make of it.

 

This game is a MMORPG and it takes time and effort to be the best, as in all MMORPG´s. People seems to forget this and expect to be the best quickly.

 

A side note is that I don´t participate in RVR, other than in a screening fleet.

 

That's all well and good if you like sailing shitty little speed boats. I don't and losing a large frigate costs far more with 1 durability than it ever did with 5. The risk vs reward through trading is way out of whack and cannons aren't nearly as profitable as they used to be with all the idiots who sell them at 1 gold above cost now. About the only way to make halfway decent money on a reliable basis is to grind. Grinding for 3 to 5 hours for 2 hours of sailing and a half of an hour of being ganked 5 on 1 isn't my idea of fun. At least when we had cheap cannons and multiple durability it wasn't such a chore to pvp.

Edited by Malachy

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1 minute ago, Malachy said:

That's all well and good if you like sailing shitty little speed boats. I don't and losing a large frigate costs far more with 1 durability than it ever did with 5. The risk vs reward through trading is way out of whack and cannons aren't nearly as profitable as they used to be with all the idiots who sell them at 1 gold above cost now. About the only way to make halfway decent money on a reliable basis is to grind. Grinding for 3 hours for 2 hours of sailing and a half of an hour of being ganked 5 on 1 isn't my idea of fun.

Should have mentioned that the ships I sail is surprises, renommee´s, Frigates, Essex etc.

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