A cry for help: Needed urgently return of nations alliance

[SUN]

Because of the situation in some nations (no need for details: big clan migration, players just stop playing, ...)  

some nations do not have even 25 players to show up in port battles and some PB are just won by default this affect considerably the game play

So please allow the nation alliance to let some nations help each other in PB !!!

Suggestions:

-  make only defencive pacts, so nations can help others only if attacked to ovoid the alliance of 2 very strong nations to attack the others and take the map in some weeks 

-  make that a person that have his place in PB by "earned hostility points can delegate his place to onother palyer from his own nation or other nations

- keep alliance for a fixed week to avoid "merc" clans that will jump from PB nation to other nation each day

[Skully]

Alliances on a Nation level are broken, so I reckon they will not be coming back.

However alliances (or mercenaries) on a Clan level might make sense.

[Thonys]

2 hours ago, Skully said:

Alliances on a Nation level are broken, so I reckon they will not be coming back.

However alliances (or mercenaries) on a Clan level might make sense.

or alliances or clan/(Admiralty) war system like eve has 

but that has bin suggested before

where a other nation ship(in war with the other clan) when entering other nations waters is RED and can be attacked(but when not in war with that clan,.. is neutral)

but when alliances with that "freindly clan(admiralty group)(from other nation)" it becomes blue and can not be attacked or attack(if he does( after + pirate warning) he becomes a pirate)

the benefit is:    everyone who is RED is involved ...in pvp

neutrals and blue are not and when shot at its a green on green situation, and becomes instant RED for (suggestion)24 hours

(pirates can be shot any time , regarding witch nation)what solves the pirates as a nation ,it can be a Spanish pirate but also a Danish pirate or brit

Edited July 30, 2017 by Thonys

[IndianaGeoff]

Alliances and RvR did not work the last time.  Control was consolidated and population crashed.

[vazco]

20 hours ago, IndianaGeoff said:

Alliances and RvR did not work the last time.  Control was consolidated and population crashed.

That's not the main reason why population crashed. You're right though, alliances don't help in generating hostilities, which is the core of this game.

[Guest]

21 hours ago, IndianaGeoff said:

Alliances and RvR did not work the last time.  Control was consolidated and population crashed.

Has to agree with Vazco. Me and mine experienced the nightflips and the nightflips were the main (and for most) the only reason they stopped playing pre-wipe. RvR however is as broken as ever - this has nothing to do with alliances but everything to do with the mindnumbingly boring grind to get hostility up. (I am not a fan for a reintroduction of the alliances mind you - I've got a plethora of targets to pick off from swedish meatballs to british fish'n'chips to french croissants to spanish paella to dutch tulips and american doghnouts?howthehello kittydoyouspellthat? and pirate parrots - all are yum yum yum!)

[Sven Silberbart]

On 28.8.2017 at 5:13 AM, IndianaGeoff said:

Alliances and RvR did not work the last time.  Control was consolidated and population crashed.

Nation alliances in the WAY NA IMPLEMETED it didn't work but not in general. The Devs thrown it away instead of developing and finishing it. There should be more options and the alliance system should help smaller nations to unite and not the bigger ones to go bigger and bigger. That means the amount of alliances a nation can declare must depend on nations population. No need for the biggest populated nation to make alliances. They should have developed the alliance system only, then it would have worked.

[Thonys]

23 hours ago, rediii said:

alliances were the reason why less people got engaged in RvR. It was not necessary that every nation had a portbattlefleet so some didnt have one. most logic way was to get the best playersnof the alliance and pjt them in 1 pb team. It was stupid.

Also repairs are not a problem just play aggressive ffs and dont shoot qnd stay on 400m distance. Ships are worth more and the better you are the harder it is to sink you. (esp if players dont know how to play that game)

12

NO

it all about the feeling they cant win a game if the cheats on ship are to much...

sailing for hours to catch up ..will turn them away 

shooting on ships and almost full healt in a zip ...will turn them away

that has nothing to do with how valuable ships are

logic is key in this matter

Edited August 30, 2017 by Thonys

[Thonys]

13 minutes ago, rediii said:

Stop ganking then and play against players which want pvp.

If you dont shoot masts/sails these guys do something wrong in the first place. You dont kill guys with shooting hull you kill them by making them slow so they cant survive because they are slow.

Speed is the thing which keeps you alive not hull hp.

you dont see what i mean ,

-----------------------------------------------------------------

i am not ganking ,but if I want to gank>  anyway but who is ganking who...

its about the cheat and the possibility to fight on equal terms somehow 

cheat (read rig/hull repairs are not helping )

but perhaps you like to cheat

 

 

[Guest]

Well, iirc the devs said that if Alliances made a come-back, it would only be available for small nations.

So in that form of implementation, sure, alliances would be nice. On the EU server at least it would be cool to see what new factions would form from the smaller nations, e.g. if Spain and US allied, and France and Dutch allied, we'd potentially have (have had...) 5 or 6 somewhat competitive factions.

The question then is how to determine who gets to ally with whom. Based on total population? Max rank population? Port ownership? Geographical neighbours only?

Edited August 29, 2017 by Guest

[Skully]

1 hour ago, Thonys said:

you dont see what i mean ,

-----------------------------------------------------------------

i am not ganking ,but if I want to gank>  anyway but who is ganking who...

its about the cheat and the possibility to fight on equal terms somehow 

cheat (read rig/hull repairs are not helping )

but perhaps you like to cheat

Something is completely lost in translation. Can you explain how folks cheat according to you, both in English and your native language?

[Guest]

4 hours ago, rediii said:

france has more players than sweden right now

Hence why I added "have had" in brackets. The nearly endless repairs and speed meta makes for so pointless and boring PvP encounters - and the rest of the game is mostly just a PvE grind - so I hardly log on anymore and thus don't know the current numbers well.

[Jean Ribault]

I would like to see alliances brought back in the form of temporary ad hoc unions, not permanent game structure.  Something similar to forming a battle group or temporary clan alignment.  It should just be a game mechanic allowing the formation of cross-national activity.  And the ad-hoc union (alliance) must be temporary.  Paying for its priviledge would be another thing, that's an important detail but I have no offer for that.  This is just a skeleton of an idea, but at least would offer something of a means to accomplish RVR for those smaller nations.  Maybe the ad-hoc alliances could also be limited to smaller nations somehow (again, definition of smaller is required here).

Edited August 29, 2017 by Jean Ribault

[Slim McSauce]

Permanent alliance for sweden/denmark/dutch.

Those nations are so obscure they'll never have to population to be competitive.

[Sir Texas Sir]

On 8/27/2017 at 10:13 PM, IndianaGeoff said:

Alliances and RvR did not work the last time.  Control was consolidated and population crashed.

Guys I think ya'll missed one fact, he's speaking of the PvP2 super care bear alliance.  GB/US/DUTCH where the two largest nations on the server had an allaince form last August up until this new patch hadn't had a single port battle against each other.  It was just proff that three nations making up 60-70% of the server population couldn't stop one nation (Pirates) that made up 20% and instead would only pick on the little nations (Danes, French, Swedes with Spain tossed in).   It just didn't work cause folks got bored, rolled over to pirates that would fight or they just stop playing. 

Though many game mechanics where also to blame this did not help one bit with server population staying up.  It's was in some ways worse than the East/West Split EU had between it's nations with the Day/Night time problems.

4 hours ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

Permanent alliance for sweden/denmark/dutch.

Those nations are so obscure they'll never have to population to be competitive.

That might work on GLOBAL, but on EU those nations are actual pretty strong compared to on our server.  Though I do think those nations should be merger and we only have 5 nations with a pirate faction instead of 8 total.

One solution to this would allow pirates at  act as privateers and join other nations port battles to help feel them up.  Even better have a reputation system and let them get Letters of Marques to fight for one nations.  The only way an alliance system would work if it limits/Locks out the top nations form making them.  You can't go off actual population as we have found having the most players with US or GB doesn't help if you can't get them to fight RvR or even open world PvP.

[IndianaGeoff]

34 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Guys I think ya'll missed one fact, he's speaking of the PvP2 super care bear alliance.  GB/US/DUTCH where the two largest nations on the server had an allaince form last August up until this new patch hadn't had a single port battle against each other.  It was just proff that three nations making up 60-70% of the server population couldn't stop one nation (Pirates) that made up 20% and instead would only pick on the little nations (Danes, French, Swedes with Spain tossed in).   It just didn't work cause folks got bored, rolled over to pirates that would fight or they just stop playing.

When I quit, the Pirates were one ported, only a handful got on some nights and there was literally nothing to do.  I understand they came back, but I am sure a big part of that was a crash in the care bear population.

[Skully]

3 hours ago, Intrepido said:

The removal of the alliance system have brought again to the game the worst RvR in months.

The proof is there, just look at the servers evolution since the wipe. Maybe some guys have enjoyed it a lot, but a lot of guys quit because of it.

 

The devs really have the believe that having some uncapturable region will fix the issue. It is just a pitty the devs arent into RvR and feel the helplessness of playing a small nation that want to fight and just has no chance. Making impossible things in a game leads to frustation.

It's not the old (broken) alliance system that you miss, it is the lack of a proper alliance system. It was very much broken because devs saw a need to force balance and fairness... 

Right now if a Nation (/Clan) finds itself surrounded by "friends" (whether real or not) it has no options anymore.

The same can be said for the old Flag timer system, if a Clan (/Nation) finds itself facing opposite timers then it has no options anymore.

On 8/24/2017 at 10:14 AM, Skully said:

To solve it we need to agree on premises.

1. The game does not model real life alliances at all. And we game by those alliances, not by what the game dictates.
2. You can only fight who is in your timeslot, regardless of Nation, Clan or alliance.

 

[Thonys]

21 hours ago, rediii said:

 

yea what cheats?

(do you remember the great cheat [double upgrades ] from a couple of months ago what triggered the total disappearing of the player-base)

 

players see unbalanced rig repairs and hull repairs now as a cheat,(from the attacking player)

it feels  like a cheat 

its

unrealistic .and not as a logical defense mechanism 

people leave  because of it

especially in combination with certain upgrades, it feels like  super Caligula Superman Klingon ships, with ten lives

if you can't see that you are playing plain ignorant or you are a member of the other development team 

what actually would be countered  end up in a direct ban of forums and game, but people can't do that, so they take their own measure and leave

and become so mad they write bad reviews on steam 

also, defs need to think twice about the consequences of their newly introduced mechanics first, and calculate that behavior first before installing every time i see a screw up in certain areas, what seems to be unthought of  ...that will end up every time in consequences what they do not  want to see (like steam reviews)

 

 

 

Edited August 30, 2017 by Thonys

[Skully]

5 minutes ago, Thonys said:

players see unbalanced rig repairs and hull repairs now as a cheat

it feels  like a cheat 

Broken is not cheating.  But I hear you and agree.

On 7/22/2017 at 1:03 PM, Skully said:

koltes and myself had a run in when he got hit by a GB patrol fleet close to KPR.

The part I did not like was close to the end. We were chasing his Surprise with 3 similar ships and could just alternate positions by repairing and taking point.

This actually went on for some time while the armor of the Surprise was steadily taken off.

Having just 1 repair for each class makes the decision moment more important and takes away a 3 ship alternating point tactic. Such a tactic is impossible to counter.

On 8/25/2017 at 2:36 PM, Skully said:

I have to agree with @DrZoidberg here. It is very hard to find reason behind some changes.

Personally I like the current repair system and have been happily using it to fit my own play style (logistics). I don't like it in battle, it makes it too easy in 3 vs 1 scenarios.

But I have no clue why it was changed. (Apart from requested by players.) Was there something wrong with the old? Lack of knowledge, skill? Or just preference?

From a supply / logistics perspective it makes sense to use up a certain number of repairs and have big ships use more.

But in combat the number of times you can actually repairs doesn't make much sense. Fiddling with cool downs may or may not work out. I don't know.

On 8/25/2017 at 2:49 PM, admin said:

we are thinking of tweaking cool downs and maybe increasing the weight of repairs - increasing the importance of choice for repairs that you carry with you. 

At least it might become different in the upcoming patch.

[Sir Texas Sir]

3 hours ago, IndianaGeoff said:

When I quit, the Pirates were one ported, only a handful got on some nights and there was literally nothing to do.  I understand they came back, but I am sure a big part of that was a crash in the care bear population.

I stayed playing every time the population went low and to me a lot of it was multi things.  We would stop playing cause we got board cause the other Nationals would stop playing cause there war method is not to fight, but to ignore us and let us get bored, which makes a bored game over all and the reason many guys jump ships, cause they want to fight.  Peace is not good for a game like this, never has been.   When we got US down to 11 ports before the alliance patch I think the server (PvP2) was at it's best, every one was playing and fighting.  Than alliance came and even with the mega carebear alliance it didn't stop a small hand full of pirates coming back and pushing GB to one port.  Than GB (CKA) pretty much said, "We don't need ports we just use the US.'"  Which creates more lazy bad problems in a game meant to be about action.  There ended up being none cause the populations gone down out of folks refusing to fight and folks getting bored and going to do other games.  This is a cycle we see with other nations, large pop nations that don't have the organization of RvR clan to fight they just give up.  These nations have the numbers, you see that when they where taking empty Spanish ports and you had to take a port and be in battle to get the rewards.  Once they removed that incentive to show up and fight and some one actually came along that fights back folks stop showing up.  Did they stop playing the game?  Didn't look like that as Global numbers didn't start to fall as it stayed a rock 250-300 prime time until they announced the patch to come.  Than it along with EU's numbers fell through the floor.    Hell even I been off playing other games.  Bee playing MWO this week and only popping on to do econ and grind a little ship knowledge on two ships, but i just can't be motivated to do that.  Plus I'm suppose to be moving and packing and well this lovely hurricane weather keeps distracting me lol.

Than we have the other problems bad patches (Fine woods for example) that get folks to stop playing and the more resent hard grind that just about every one hates (hay I'm sure some folks like it, but not every one).  

Than you have the icing on the cake that kills the server population every time......ANNOUNCING ANY TYPE OF WIPE OR PATCH CHANGES.

 

I have mentioned about bringing back alliances for small nations.  If they have say under 5 regions they can unit, but as soon as they get more than that they have to break the alliances or a big nation can only have an alliance with a small nation.  I always though the Dutch/GB alliance was a good thing, just not when you throw US into that.  If say US had picked up Spain/France or something it would of been a good thing.  You have large power nations taking in under there wings a small nation.  Kinda like Danes and Swedes have on GLOBAL and Danes and French had on PvP2.  Pirates than again is hard mode so we can't have any official alliance with any one and I'm fine with that.  Never stopped us in the past.  The problem is figuring out how to figure if a nation is weak or not to allow an alliance.  I can see an nation keep it's regions small just to use the other nations ports.   That is where you need to make it where they can use each other ports but you can not build in any port that isn't owned by your nation or a freeport.  So lets say the GB/Dutch.  A Dutch player can set up an outpost in KPR, but he can't put any buildings in that port.  He can only use it for teleport and trade.  This will encourage the alliance to help the other nation get ports back if they lost all them or to defend what little they have.

All this is moot with the new RvR going to Clan base over a nations.  A small nation can pool it's resources and capture and hold a few key ports if need be.  They just have to understand you don't have to own every dot on the map.  So the old cash/land rush of old days won't work for GB and US as you have to maintain those ports.  Same with Pirates we would have to keep only what we can afford to upkeep.   You going to see a lot of grey/neutral ports on the map I'm sure of.    

[Sir Texas Sir]

2 minutes ago, rediii said:

Oh you are one of the guys with that bellonapost. I remember xD

Defenders can use repair too you know. I agree that CD can be changed but the multiple repairs and shared cd of rig and hull is a great feature in my oppinion. you have to be more aggressive/make good decicions.

That many fail to use their repajrs in a clever way has nothing to do with a cheat.

You really be surprised how many times I catch a trade ship with zero guns or repairs on them.  How many times we catch some one out in OW with a store bought ships and hardly any repairs. It's one thing if your raiding and trying to travel light, but I"m talking about folks grind fleets.  One nation on our server has a bad habit of hardly keeping any repairs and they just port up to repair after doing a mission.  Those or the guys we love to tag and find in a mission cause when they get to running they have hardly any repairs and burn through them fast.  I mean who needs Rig Repair when your fighting AI ships right?

I do think the repair CD needs to be bumped up to 12 mins (happy middle of 10-15 mins).  Lets try that before tweeking with how they work and weigh right now. Remember folks you have 10 mins between those repairs to stop that player.  Even than repairs only brings you so much back.  

 

Now what I would like to see removed is the stupid laser stern accurate guns.  We don't need it any more and it makes ships like Surprise that won't miss nay of it's four ships god mode when in a chase compared to Trinc that you might miss some of the 4 rounds.  It should actually be the same for both guns accuracy wise.

[Vizzini]

22 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

 

I have mentioned about bringing back alliances for small nations. 

Forced alliances are what we pretty much have now, every nation has a large amount of fellow nationals it cannot fight when at some point in time it usually wants or needs to . If we are truly going clan based warfare ( I am sceptical it will happen the way a lot of people think) then we need to start thinking of clans as individual nations and stop forcing alliances onto them

 

why have nations , every clan to be its own boss, have it's own bases and everybody would have many more targets to shoot at. Why not have a flag for who you are nation wise but your clan mates are the only ones you cannot fight with ?

 

Have so many different clans / nations that any alliances would be hard to keep track of , more opportunity for treachery , war etc

 

Edited August 30, 2017 by Vizzini
p p oor typing and spolling

[Thonys]

27 minutes ago, rediii said:

Oh you are one of the guys with that bellonapost. I remember xD

Defenders can use repair too you know. I agree that CD can be changed but the multiple repairs and shared cd of rig and hull is a great feature in my oppinion. you have to be more aggressive/make good decicions.

That many fail to use their repajrs in a clever way has nothing to do with a cheat.

and you still don't see the problem 

oh by the way, yes the guy from the Bellona 

you still remember!!.. well i have news:  after that, it was altered ...so who was right 

ps : and i don't have to be aggressive....i have balls for that, and atm the best decision is to stay at port xd

Edited August 30, 2017 by Thonys

[Sir Texas Sir]

5 minutes ago, Vizzini said:

Forced alliances are what we pretty much have now, every nation has a large amount of fellow nationals it cannot fight when at some point in time it usually wants or needs to . If we are truly going clan based warfare ( I am sceptical it will happen the way a lot of people think) then we need to start thinking of clans as individual nations and stop forcing alliances onto them

 

why have nations , every clan to be its own boss, have it's own bases and everybody would have many more targets to shoot at. Why not have a flag for who you are nation wise but your clan mates are the only ones you cannot fight with ?

 

Have so many different clans / nations that any alliances would be hard to keep track of , more opportunity for treachery , war etc

 

 

Yah I actually like the whole War Company concept so that clans/war companies that want certain alliances can have them with other nations. You want to trade with that nation than set your owned port to Neutral and do so, if you don't than make it your nation port so they can't easily use it.  It looks nice on paper so far, but like yous said nothing ever turns out the same once implemented into play.

This way if GB/US players that don't like the alliance between the two nations (not that there is one now) they can still fight each other instead of doing what every one else in the respective nation is doing.  

I would love to see 12 man raids too so that small clans/Nations that can't get 25 players together can still have fights and maybe an influence over some things.  They might not be able to capture and hold a port, but they sure as hell can get the numbers to raid it.

[Thonys]

54 minutes ago, rediii said:

Btw I bet you would be whining too if you get yojr mast sniped after 2 min or so and cant repair them. Battles become mastsniping to win. 

so you now possess the other captain's brain to

are you in the gambling business? (  BTW, >>  I BET )

I bet you have to be more neutral on the captain's thoughts and think more about the balance in form of pros and cons for every player, instead of attacking  players own opinions

 

i am glad people whine,...at least they tell you theire issues.

ps: i m sorry i had to tell you that in the open ,

Edited August 30, 2017 by Thonys