Remove Super-Speed from NPC Battles and Epics + add Positional Spawn for NPC Combat

[Tenet]

Super-Speed is supposed to be against escaping from a PvP battle and getting a chance against revenge fleets.

It should not be a sure-fire way to get a defensive tag off NPC ships which is how it is used right now.

NPC battles should also be joinable positionally - to avoid Defensive tags on NPC's altogether. *

Edit: *This means that if you tag an NPC fleet from max range to prevent me from catching you, I should be able to spawn within shooting distance anyway. This jumping from one NPC fleet to another to escape is an exploit. 

Edited July 29, 2017 by Tenet

[Grundal]

+1

the join circles are terribad

[Hethwill]

Positional spawns were tested with... interesting...big....NO!... quite unanimously by the majority (search posts history).

Turbo speed from NPC fleets has been reported by many. Maybe it is intended !? No idea.

Join circles should be closer to the battle center but spawn at the present range.

 

[Tenet]

Just now, The Red Duke said:

Positional spawns were tested with... interesting...big....NO!... quite unanimously by the majority (search posts history).

Turbo speed from NPC fleets has been reported by many. Maybe it is intended !? No idea.

Join circles should be closer to the battle center but spawn at the present range.

Of Course the #1 abuser of this exploit is going to jump into the thread and browbeat with his mod powers. Like clockwork.

You should not be throwing defensive tags on NPC fleets and getting favorable spawns. 

[Hethwill]

4 minutes ago, Tenet said:

Of Course the #1 abuser of this exploit is going to jump into the thread and browbeat with his mod powers. Like clockwork.

You should not be throwing defensive tags on NPC fleets and getting favorable spawns. 

Care to explain number 1 ?

I need to know when, where, and how this situation happened. I don't even need screenshots nor videos.

Thanks sir.

[Tenet]

12 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

Care to explain number 1 ?

I need to know when, where, and how this situation happened. I don't even need screenshots nor videos.

Thanks sir.

You mean to tell me that when you get cornered on all sides you won't jump into an NPC battle to save your main ship? 

You never used this exploit yourself? Excellent.

You are currently defending everyone that does and actively try to help them continue. Cheers! 

P.S. I will -definitely- use it every time I can until it's fixed. No high horse here. Super-speed already made running easy, this exploit makes it stupid. 

[Hethwill]

5 minutes ago, Tenet said:

You mean to tell me that when you get cornered on all sides you won't jump into an NPC battle to save your main ship? 

You never used this exploit yourself? Excellent.

You are currently defending everyone that does and actively try to help them continue. Cheers! 

P.S. I will -definitely- use it every time I can until it's fixed. No high horse here. Super-speed already made running easy, this exploit makes it stupid. 

I asked you to tell

where, when, and how did this happen when the [ROVER]The Red Duke player was involved.

You were very specific pointing me as using an exploit. Do not push the dust into the air.

I am player first, mod last.

I do not take lightly on the subject so I expect you to be honest and answer it or apologize for a honest mistake.

 

 

[Tenet]

I apologize for an honest mistake! 

[Vllad]

40 minutes ago, Tenet said:

You mean to tell me that when you get cornered on all sides you won't jump into an NPC battle to save your main ship? 

You never used this exploit yourself? 

So what you are saying is the developers should put in a mechanic that doesn't allow anyone to tag an NPC fleet when they are surrounded by enemy players?

You must have been one of those kids that asked Santa Clause for World Peace. 

[Tenet]

9 minutes ago, Vllad said:

So what you are saying is the developers should put in a mechanic that doesn't allow anyone to tag an NPC fleet when they are surrounded by enemy players?

You must have been one of those kids that asked Santa Clause for World Peace. 

Tag it, sure, and have all the chasers spawn right on top of you when they join. 

The idea of an NPC fleet being used to escape PvP must be ended. 

The only defensive tagging should be against another Player ship. 

[Iroquois Confederacy]

However, due to the tagging circle shifting to defenders, defensive tagging no longer exists, unless the revenge fleet is wholly incompetent.

[Tenet]

Just now, Iroquois Confederacy said:

However, due to the tagging circle shifting to defenders, defensive tagging no longer exists, unless the revenge fleet is wholly incompetent.

Please do not derail the thread. We're talking about someone being chased - and right before the enemies can favorably tag, people jump into a PvE/NPC battle at max range, resulting in complete immunity to escape inside the battle, AND freaking super-speed outside. 

Capturing a moderately fast ship around NPC/PvE fleets is near impossible right now, excluding user-error.

NPC fleets should not provide super-speed / invisibility when you come out, and NPC fleets join circles should behave differently from PvP ones - if you escape into an NPC fleet, the chasers should spawn on where the runner first entered, not on the far away NPC spawn. 

 

[admin]

3 hours ago, Tenet said:

Please do not derail the thread. We're talking about someone being chased - and right before the enemies can favorably tag, people jump into a PvE/NPC battle at max range, resulting in complete immunity to escape inside the battle, AND freaking super-speed outside. 

Invisibility + speed buff is only granted on exiting pvp battles. 

The ability to sometimes escape into another battle is the result the instanced battles. Thus sometimes players would escape into ports, battles, events, missions or other instances.

[Sir Texas Sir]

4 hours ago, The Red Duke said:

Positional spawns were tested with... interesting...big....NO!... quite unanimously by the majority (search posts history).

Turbo speed from NPC fleets has been reported by many. Maybe it is intended !? No idea.

Join circles should be closer to the battle center but spawn at the present range.

 

Actually you know that this is how FFA battles are set up. You tag and any one that joins can position spawn around it. There is no join circles for them.   Not to mention when I tag you close on the OW I"m actually close in the battle.   You should jump into a Pirate vs Pirate battle some time.  I get the reason why they don't use them for PvP battles, but what we are talking about are PvE battles.   The problem is when a player tags an AI and puts the Join circles in some really retarded spots that you have to stop and turn around and join the fight.  By time you join your miles behind them and can't chase them down.  Specifically with some of the meta speed builds we still have now in game.  Now if we are allowed to prepositionally join NPC tags we can pick where we want to join according to where we where to the guy we where trying to tag.  That are make the Tag circle bigger on for NPC ships compared to player tags and it will help with this problem.  We waste a lot of time turning around in one of these tags to go back to the join circle when we where just at the edge of the tag circles.

That are making so every one can see tag circles would honestly solve this problem so you know when some one is being tagged and where the circle ends.  Cause server lag you can seem like your on the edge but by time it's pulled your not actually on the edge or out of it.

As for the warp speed. I get the reason it's being tested, but honestly the invisibility was working.   There is no reason to have super fast warp speed after a battle with other players.  Hell I got warp speed out of a port after I surrender a ship back to another player we captured it from and was sent to the nearest port.  Yep upon exit of the port I was warped away invisible from the port.  Was a bit tired so forgot to F11 that, but thought that was a bit OP/exploitable as hell if you can do that.  Come out surrender a crappy ship.  Pop into your good ship and use the rocket invisible to sling you away from the port and get a good run out of a block aid with your good ship before any one see's you.

[William Death]

16 minutes ago, admin said:

Invisibility + speed buff is only granted on exiting pvp battles. 

I can still get the speed buff and invisibility timer from tagging NPC fleets unless something was changed in the last hotfix.

It should be the way you describe, but I do not believe that is how it currently works? Maybe I am mistaken though.

[CaptVonGunn]

5 hours ago, Tenet said:

You mean to tell me that when you get cornered on all sides you won't jump into an NPC battle to save your main ship? 

You never used this exploit yourself? Excellent.

You are currently defending everyone that does and actively try to help them continue. Cheers! 

P.S. I will -definitely- use it every time I can until it's fixed. No high horse here. Super-speed already made running easy, this exploit makes it stupid. 

SO because someone does it is an exploit everyone that DOESN'T do it needs to be fresh meat when a PvPer spots them entering a NPC fight in OW and just waits for them.. Because it happens...(or did)   I am still trying to find out why the Speed thing doesnt apply to Mission exits... which get camped a lot to..

[Koltes]

9 hours ago, Iroquois Confederacy said:

However, due to the tagging circle shifting to defenders, defensive tagging no longer exists, unless the revenge fleet is wholly incompetent.

Not a true statement. Defensive tag exists and is used unless the runner is wholly incompetent. Its ok. There are counters to defensive tags so faster ships CAN avoid defensive taggin. Not an issue.

Issue is that faster ships should be able to eventually catch up with slower ships. Runners use defensive tag to gain invisibility and walk away altogether... They then make a big circle and continue griefing the area. You and I are hunters. This is what we do. For Koltes as a hunter thats an awesome mechanic. It almost gives me godsmode cheat. I can come and go into enemy territory and harrass people all day long with minimal risk. As Koltes home waters defender I see this as an issue when 10 ships half of which are actually faster than the hunter cannon catch them.

@admin  It should be if you were tagged you get invisibility and gods speed, so they have 1 opportunity to make it right. But if YOU tagged someone you should not get anything. Get out of battle normally.

 

Thus protecting capital waters still possible.

As off tagging NPC fleet its ok, they can use it, but join the battle should be like Green on Green. Why? Because if someone jumped your mission or your OW NPC battle after couple of mins they have no idea where you are in that mission. Chances are they will spawn further away or the fight have already shifted from entry point. Make GnG and NPC attack join circle increase in size so longer it takes to join NPC more away from center they will spawn in the battle. But if I chased someone and was literally right behind them and they tagged AI, why should I sail back to my side join circle and spawn miles away? I was already right behind this guy.

Edited July 30, 2017 by koltes

[JobaSet]

Fact the only ones that wanted this was people ganking in enemy water.  So they could gank in peace in enemy waters with every little chance of getting killed them selves from so called revenge fleets(in enemy water).  They got everything they wanted and more Revenge fleets are gone now and now they can kill at will with very little recourse.   

[Tenet]

6 hours ago, admin said:

Invisibility + speed buff is only granted on exiting pvp battles. 

The ability to sometimes escape into another battle is the result the instanced battles. Thus sometimes players would escape into ports, battles, events, missions or other instances.

1. Several witnesses in my clan confirm what I watched with my own eyes - we get the Speed Boost out of NPC battles. 

2. Very likely there may remain an Exploit where if we chase into the NPC battle, it becomes a PvP battle with a really bad tag and they get Speed Buff + Invisibility on exit.

That's the main problem here - they should not be using NPC battles defensively. 

It completely kills ability to corner people that messed up. It's already hard with super-speed.

Edit: @admin

Just tested it repeatedly - every Open-World Fleet we engaged while gaining hostility gave everyone Super-Speed + Invisibility. This is clearly broken.

The NPC tag circle should also be like "Green on Green" as Koltes says - people should be unable to use AI-fleets as an escape mechanism where someone is right behind/beside about to execute their own perfect tag. 

Edited July 30, 2017 by Tenet

[Doug Maoz]

I was always curious why missions have positional joining, and attacking OW NPC fleets does not.

[Sir Texas Sir]

6 hours ago, admin said:

Invisibility + speed buff is only granted on exiting pvp battles. 

The ability to sometimes escape into another battle is the result the instanced battles. Thus sometimes players would escape into ports, battles, events, missions or other instances.

Actually tested it.  IF you are in a mission you exit like normal.  When you exit an open world PvE battle you get the speed buff (not sure about the invisibility).   So tagging and AI in OW has the exact same effect after the battle as tagging a player.

[CaptVonGunn]

1 hour ago, Tenet said:

1. Several witnesses in my clan confirm what I watched with my own eyes - we get the Speed Boost out of NPC battles. 

2. Very likely there may remain an Exploit where if we chase into the NPC battle, it becomes a PvP battle with a really bad tag and they get Speed Buff + Invisibility on exit.

That's the main problem here - they should not be using NPC battles defensively. 

It completely kills ability to corner people that messed up. It's already hard with super-speed.

Edit: @admin

Just tested it repeatedly - every Open-World Fleet we engaged while gaining hostility gave everyone Super-Speed + Invisibility. This is clearly broken.

The NPC tag circle should also be like "Green on Green" as Koltes says - people should be unable to use AI-fleets as an escape mechanism where someone is right behind/beside about to execute their own perfect tag. 

Wouldn't an easier fix be.. if you have been tagged you can NOT tag a AI....

[Sir Texas Sir]

3 minutes ago, CaptVonGunn said:

Wouldn't an easier fix be.. if you have been tagged you can NOT tag a AI....

I actually like this one...

[CaptVonGunn]

1 minute ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I actually like this one...

Thank you and thinking on it a bit more.. If Someone has an AI tagged and they get tagged,, It would cancel the AI tag also.. Then leave the or don't the After battle re-spawn stuff... I still think it has it's uses.. but that is me.... 

[Tenet]

5 minutes ago, CaptVonGunn said:

Wouldn't an easier fix be.. if you have been tagged you can NOT tag a AI....

Not enough. I had a situation today:

Read a guys movement perfectly (actually used a ruse to make him turn where I wanted), and had a friend pincer him to land from the other direction.

About 15 seconds before our own tag starts, he passes by an AI-fleet and throws a defensive tag, resulting in horrible join circles for our chase. 

We didn't do anything wrong in chasing, he was fair game, and we had to let him go because between the super-speed and thes AI-fleet defensive tags we have to align too many conditions to catch.

I not only have to perfectly predict where he goes (which I've done before) but also pray that I can launch my perfect close-position tag before he uses another AI to escape.