Declaration of Victory and the Terms

[Archaos]

4 hours ago, koltes said:

The TERMS
I. BLACK will NOT attack Cartagena de Indias and Belize regions giving GB resources and place to rebuild;
II. BLACK will take Portobelo as a jump point for our hunting in the area;
III. US to take Penzacola and Gasparilla regions in order to rebuilt. GB not to show up and let US to take them, else BLACK will take them and then pass it to US later. If we will have to take them we will accidentally take more than originally intended;
IV. After this weekend BLACK will give back to GB Savanna la Mar region to boost their morale and give them some space. GB can start grinding hostility on Monday. After this weekend BLACK clan will not defend this port;
V. BLACK will take or allocate to one or more nations the rest of the Northern Gulf territories to ensure its leading position on the Conquest Leaderboard and that other nations have means to build up.

On behalf of BLACK / BLOOD clan members I would like to thank all GB players for giving us a great fight in Port-au-Prince. This is what makes NA so great. The battle was fantastic. The fight was fearsome and very very tactical, strategic and challenging. We wish GB the best of luck to rebuild which we are sure will happen in no time.

I'm sorry but I have to laugh at the terms you are putting in. You say for the sake of the game you are ceasing your hostilities against the Brits to let them rebuild yet you keep a port deep within their region so you can raid them and frustrate them as they try and rebuild, you say you are going to distribute ports to other nations thus allowing other nations to do the same. You do all this but at the same time you ensure you stay top of the conquest leaderboard.

You say they are terms as if it was some form of negotiation yet just about all benefit the pirates. All you are doing is protecting yourselves from becoming overextended like the Brits did while at the same time retaining control and dictating how things will be done. Why even bother, just one region the Brits if you can and see what happens it will be a good way to show how the conquest mechanics are broken in a game where there are no overall victory conditions. Every nation once they have a bit of success against another nation ends up having to ease off or it destroys the game. The Brits did it in their war with the USA and now the Pirates are doing it in the war against the British, and each time it seems to swell the Pirate ranks, maybe because they are seen as the faction that people would play if they did not play their favorite nation.

I understand you want to give nations a chance to rebuild so that you can have good fights in future, but I personally do not think it is good for the game in the long run and the only way the game can improve is to prove how broken some systems are.

And before anyone asks, No I am not an active player at the moment as I work away from home and do not have the internet bandwidth to play and I have only managed to get about 2 weeks play since the wipe. But I do try and follow what is happening in the game and make suggestions good or bad.

[woodenfish]

I didn't think you would, but I hope the developers do.

[Iroquois Confederacy]

6 minutes ago, Duncan McFail said:

We give back Savannah la Mar because we're close enough to hunt at KPR regardless. We keep Savannah because it's the sole port we've taken from the US and it's nice hunting grounds. Plus they earned it after attacking 2 of our ports and running up 5 others we've had to bring down. 

And that comment of "captains of similar skill" would earn you being one ported if you weren't already. I noticed you didn't show your face around mort again after losing your last ship until you get Mario mushroom 🍄 power to get your rear in the clear. Try getting a decent group against us before opening your mouth... oh wait you're in a nation with 1 other person. My bad. 

I apologize for having the wrong flag on here, as I haven't been able to get an updated sharedassets file just yet.  However, this screenshot, a Niagara v. Frigate, was taken yesterday, after chasing a TBrig (the escaped player) from Mortimer Town to Salina Point.

Further, you, yourself, I fought outside of La Tortue yesterday or the day before, and sent you scurrying in three passes, Surprise v. Surprise.

I don't care if you talk trash.  I actually have respect for Koltes.  But don't dishonor your clan any further by blatantly lying.

[Hethwill]

Total war. No surrender.

There comes a time when a line in the sand must be drawn, where the captains become tempered in fire and then come out way stronger than before.

 

[Sir Texas Sir]

47 minutes ago, Arsilon said:

Honest questions and unfortunately I can't ask it in any way other than making sound like I'm trolling but I'll try anyway...

Why is GB using their population advantage when they have other logisitical, political, organizational, etc. weaknesses bad when it's OK for Pirates to use pirate-on-pirate battles to exchange ships/repairs, "position" fleets strategically, etc. to offset their "numbers weakness"?

 

Why is it people ask for "Fair" fights, yet will take any advantage they have (intended or non-intended game mechanics included) to make sure it doesn't happen unless under the very specific conditions those same people deem appropriate?

 

 

 

They where using broken mechanics to split our fleet and not fight us.  When you show up in screening ships of store bought ships, navy brigs for Line Ship battles and every thing is speed fit you are not there to fight.  A real fleet would just sail past them or through them and into the port to take it than. This was called griefing.    IF they truly wanted to fight us they would have a full 25 ships out side and not just tag and run.  They would fight us and we would skip the Port battle and have OW fun in some good old PvP.  As soon as the Devs fix the BR mechanics we roll up in a group of 25 using the new Fleet and no screeners to be found.  Not a single person in battle either. Well a few good chaps that stick around and had some fun, but none of the ones on here you hear complaining about mechanics and exploits.   Both port battles we have had with actually numbers we have been out number and beat then with almost zero to little lost.   SO that tell you they are using mechanics to keep us out of a fight they don't expect to win.   

If they where so much about fair fights than they wouldn't be using 75 ships to screen a small nation out of a port battle and than not show up as soon as game mechanics are fix where they have to use proper screening ships.  Again we have said over and over we would fight them out side if they brought proper ships and would fight us straight up.

Last night we had a full 25 port battle fleet and finally almost a full 25 screening fleet that showed up before us.  They got  a bit of a fight on the way to the port battle, but guess what didn't show?   And this was a 4th rate battle during server prime time as we wanted them to have no excuse why not to show up.

It's not our fault there nation can't work with each other at this time in get things organized.

[woodenfish]

3 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

They where using broken mechanics to split our fleet and not fight us.  When you show up in screening ships of store bought ships, navy brigs for Line Ship battles and every thing is speed fit you are not there to fight.  A real fleet would just sail past them or through them and into the port to take it than. This was called griefing.    IF they truly wanted to fight us they would have a full 25 ships out side and not just tag and run.  They would fight us and we would skip the Port battle and have OW fun in some good old PvP.  As soon as the Devs fix the BR mechanics we roll up in a group of 25 using the new Fleet and no screeners to be found.  Not a single person in battle either. Well a few good chaps that stick around and had some fun, but none of the ones on here you hear complaining about mechanics and exploits.   Both port battles we have had with actually numbers we have been out number and beat then with almost zero to little lost.   SO that tell you they are using mechanics to keep us out of a fight they don't expect to win.   

If they where so much about fair fights than they wouldn't be using 75 ships to screen a small nation out of a port battle and than not show up as soon as game mechanics are fix where they have to use proper screening ships.  Again we have said over and over we would fight them out side if they brought proper ships and would fight us straight up.

Last night we had a full 25 port battle fleet and finally almost a full 25 screening fleet that showed up before us.  They got  a bit of a fight on the way to the port battle, but guess what didn't show?   And this was a 4th rate battle during server prime time as we wanted them to have no excuse why not to show up.

It's not our fault there nation can't work with each other at this time in get things organized.

So you are saying the only way to fight a war is to fight every battle in order?

[Archaos]

2 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

They where using broken mechanics to split our fleet and not fight us.  When you show up in screening ships of store bought ships, navy brigs for Line Ship battles and every thing is speed fit you are not there to fight.  A real fleet would just sail past them or through them and into the port to take it than. This was called griefing.    IF they truly wanted to fight us they would have a full 25 ships out side and not just tag and run.  They would fight us and we would skip the Port battle and have OW fun in some good old PvP.  As soon as the Devs fix the BR mechanics we roll up in a group of 25 using the new Fleet and no screeners to be found.  Not a single person in battle either. Well a few good chaps that stick around and had some fun, but none of the ones on here you hear complaining about mechanics and exploits.   Both port battles we have had with actually numbers we have been out number and beat then with almost zero to little lost.   SO that tell you they are using mechanics to keep us out of a fight they don't expect to win.   

If they where so much about fair fights than they wouldn't be using 75 ships to screen a small nation out of a port battle and than not show up as soon as game mechanics are fix where they have to use proper screening ships.  Again we have said over and over we would fight them out side if they brought proper ships and would fight us straight up.

Last night we had a full 25 port battle fleet and finally almost a full 25 screening fleet that showed up before us.  They got  a bit of a fight on the way to the port battle, but guess what didn't show?   And this was a 4th rate battle during server prime time as we wanted them to have no excuse why not to show up.

It's not our fault there nation can't work with each other at this time in get things organized.

Do you think maybe they gave up because of the tactics you used previously? You may have changed tactics to use the new mechanics but how were they to know?

Personally I would be eager to know how the new mechanics for Battle Groups works out. I have concerns about it, but I do think it may help alleviate some of the problems that you mention about screeners avoiding fights and just trolling to stop you entering the port battle.

[Slim McSauce]

5 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

They where using broken mechanics to split our fleet and not fight us.  When you show up in screening ships of store bought ships, navy brigs for Line Ship battles and every thing is speed fit you are not there to fight.  A real fleet would just sail past them or through them and into the port to take it than. This was called griefing.    IF they truly wanted to fight us they would have a full 25 ships out side and not just tag and run.  They would fight us and we would skip the Port battle and have OW fun in some good old PvP.  As soon as the Devs fix the BR mechanics we roll up in a group of 25 using the new Fleet and no screeners to be found.  Not a single person in battle either. Well a few good chaps that stick around and had some fun, but none of the ones on here you hear complaining about mechanics and exploits.   Both port battles we have had with actually numbers we have been out number and beat then with almost zero to little lost.   SO that tell you they are using mechanics to keep us out of a fight they don't expect to win.   

If they where so much about fair fights than they wouldn't be using 75 ships to screen a small nation out of a port battle and than not show up as soon as game mechanics are fix where they have to use proper screening ships.  Again we have said over and over we would fight them out side if they brought proper ships and would fight us straight up.

Last night we had a full 25 port battle fleet and finally almost a full 25 screening fleet that showed up before us.  They got  a bit of a fight on the way to the port battle, but guess what didn't show?   And this was a 4th rate battle during server prime time as we wanted them to have no excuse why not to show up.

It's not our fault there nation can't work with each other at this time in get things organized.

Pirates need a new game for themselves so they can have their fair 25v25 fights. Something that doesn't require strategy, logistics, or a OW.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson

[Sir Texas Sir]

Just now, woodenfish said:

So you are saying the only way to fight a war is to fight every battle in order?

I'm saying a true fleet of our size put against such weak screening force would just push through the small ships and into port.  If we where lagging ships behind than they should be able to pick us off by all rights, but we where balled up like crazy and they where able to pick us off cause of bad BR mechanics and pull.  Now you can't do that.  They have to bring a proper fleet and have the BR to match.

And no you don't have to fight every fight,, but when the mechanics your bitching about is fixed there isn't an excuse to use that as reason your not fighting any more.  The mechanics would't have changed the out come of PnP.  They lost that port and than gave up fighting.  It's there own nation that gave up on them. 

[Hodo]

1 minute ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

They where using broken mechanics to split our fleet and not fight us.  When you show up in screening ships of store bought ships, navy brigs for Line Ship battles and every thing is speed fit you are not there to fight.  A real fleet would just sail past them or through them and into the port to take it than. This was called griefing.  

Pot call kettle black much?

 

Sorry but saying that the brits used broken mechanics to split your fleet, yet you used broken mechanics to avoid fights, not once, not twice, but SEVERAL times.   You would hide in a battle with an alt, once was proven in a tribunal so not an accusation.   The second time you used an ally to hide in with.   

So for a clan that wants PVP, you seem to only look for easy pickings not for fights.   Hell at least I admit I avoid fair fights.   Last night I tagged a Surprise in my Privateer, and he ran from me.   

No griefing is sending a small ship with JUST enough BR to tag the trailing ship(s) of a fleet for over 6 hours as they sail somewhere.  

 

[Hethwill]

God is not on the side of the big battalions, but on the side of those who shoot best.

Hence we pray.

A lot.

[p i t]

For the Rights of Nations to join together, even if at war with each other, in the face of a greater evil. o7 Spanish

[Hodo]

2 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I'm saying a true fleet of our size put against such weak screening force would just push through the small ships and into port.  If we where lagging ships behind than they should be able to pick us off by all rights, but we where balled up like crazy and they where able to pick us off cause of bad BR mechanics and pull.  Now you can't do that.  They have to bring a proper fleet and have the BR to match.

And no you don't have to fight every fight,, but when the mechanics your bitching about is fixed there isn't an excuse to use that as reason your not fighting any more.  The mechanics would't have changed the out come of PnP.  They lost that port and than gave up fighting.  It's there own nation that gave up on them. 

Well tell that to Sir Francis Drake, the REAL man not the character in game.  He defeated the Spanish Armada using "lesser" ships in the late 1588.

The fact is you think everyone is going to exploit or min/max the shit out of the game to get to where you all are.  That isnt the case.  Sorry but most of the players I see in game are pretty casual and play at most 10-12 hours a week.   

[Sir Texas Sir]

2 minutes ago, Archaos said:

Do you think maybe they gave up because of the tactics you used previously? You may have changed tactics to use the new mechanics but how were they to know?

Personally I would be eager to know how the new mechanics for Battle Groups works out. I have concerns about it, but I do think it may help alleviate some of the problems that you mention about screeners avoiding fights and just trolling to stop you entering the port battle.

We where actually wanting to test it out too. The first day on the way to Trinidad there was a bunch of glitch problems (see @Jeheil ghost ship post).  While we don't think it's the group it self that caused it but we had a lot of problems that night with lag and glitching in and out of the game.   Didn't see it last night though so maybe they got it fixed or something else will cause that.  We actually would like to see how it test against a fleet as the devs don't really tell us what the BR vs mechanics for pull exactly are.  Like it's some magical formula.  

[Hethwill]

the santa marta open world port battle was between two battle groups. BR was fairly equal.

take it as it comes, won't get more perfect testing than that.

 

[Archaos]

1 minute ago, The Red Duke said:

the santa marta open world port battle was between two battle groups. BR was fairly equal.

take it as it comes, won't get more perfect testing than that.

 

I was thinking more of the situation where there is more than 1 BG on each side, or it is unbalanced and the smaller nation only has their PB fleet in a BG with a few other vessels to help screen and the larger nation is able to field 2 full screening BG's as well as a defending PB fleet (probably not possible on the Global server).

[Slim McSauce]

27 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I'm saying a true fleet of our size put against such weak screening force would just push through the small ships and into port.  If we where lagging ships behind than they should be able to pick us off by all rights, but we where balled up like crazy and they where able to pick us off cause of bad BR mechanics and pull.  Now you can't do that.  They have to bring a proper fleet and have the BR to match.

And no you don't have to fight every fight,, but when the mechanics your bitching about is fixed there isn't an excuse to use that as reason your not fighting any more.  The mechanics would't have changed the out come of PnP.  They lost that port and than gave up fighting.  It's there own nation that gave up on them. 

"Weak screening force"

-Can't put up a screening force of their own, charges in their main fleet instead.

-----main fleet gets chained and bogged down by 75 frigates.

-------------complain that screening is griefing.

--------------------literally exploits into pb.

----------------------------everyone says exploiting is wrong.

------------------------------------------"Numbers shouldn't dictate who wins"

-----------------------------------------------------keeps attacking capital ports instead of the lower pop ones

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) never change pirates

Edited July 21, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson

[Duncan McFail]

25 minutes ago, Iroquois Confederacy said:

I apologize for having the wrong flag on here, as I haven't been able to get an updated sharedassets file just yet.  However, this screenshot, a Niagara v. Frigate, was taken yesterday, after chasing a TBrig (the escaped player) from Mortimer Town to Salina Point.

Further, you, yourself, I fought outside of La Tortue yesterday or the day before, and sent you scurrying in three passes, Surprise v. Surprise.

I don't care if you talk trash.  I actually have respect for Koltes.  But don't dishonor your clan any further by blatantly lying.

Great you killed a ravager. Nice show of skill. And you did fight me and I was smart enough to call it quits when a solid broadside did 8% of your side. With my redeemable bermuda/bermuda surprise with 1 slot unlocked that was speed trim. Not exactly a 1v1 ship nor a ship that I like to sail in the first place. Not to mention the crafting perks I had on as I was only out there after you were called out since we make sure our waters are clear. With that setup I was one of many searching for you as you problably noticed with the 5 guys waiting outside for you. Although dueling isn't my thing one of these days I will have the time to unlock some slots on a ship and come at you with a 1v1 ship proper. One of these days. And I'm not sure where the "blatantly lying" part is coming from or what it's even about.

[Sir Texas Sir]

29 minutes ago, Hodo said:

Pot call kettle black much?

 

Sorry but saying that the brits used broken mechanics to split your fleet, yet you used broken mechanics to avoid fights, not once, not twice, but SEVERAL times.   You would hide in a battle with an alt, once was proven in a tribunal so not an accusation.   The second time you used an ally to hide in with.   

So for a clan that wants PVP, you seem to only look for easy pickings not for fights.   Hell at least I admit I avoid fair fights.   Last night I tagged a Surprise in my Privateer, and he ran from me.   

No griefing is sending a small ship with JUST enough BR to tag the trailing ship(s) of a fleet for over 6 hours as they sail somewhere.  

 

 We aren't crying and running to post every time ya'll use the mechanics and using it as an excuse as to why we lost a very fair and straight up fight....oh wait cause we didn't lose the port battles or any fight we got into other than a few guys that got singled out.   Why is It every time ya'll get beat you stop fighting?   We heard so much smack talk about how VCO and TF wanted fair fights and how great they where and they wanted to show us how real port battles where.  IF they where so good they didn't need screeners and now we found out why they needed them.  

Now how exactly is 23 vs 25 easy pickings?   We where down two ships compared to them at PnP.  Brits had the forts and towers to help them too since our mortar brig didn't make it in.  To me sounds like we where just fine with the challenge of an uneven fight and how did it turn out?  8 Brit ships sunk and 1 captured with zero lost in the port battle on the pirate side.  So exactly how do we just want easy pickings again?  Sounds more like Brits only want easy pickings by using there numbers to pick off and split off a much smaller group than they have.  

 

 

Edited July 21, 2017 by Sir Texas Sir

[Hethwill]

7 minutes ago, Archaos said:

I was thinking more of the situation where there is more than 1 BG on each side, or it is unbalanced and the smaller nation only has their PB fleet in a BG with a few other vessels to help screen and the larger nation is able to field 2 full screening BG's as well as a defending PB fleet (probably not possible on the Global server).

BG will pull target BG and nothing else. extra slots must be joined via the joining circles.

[Koltes]

Hodo stop stirring the shit.
 

10 minutes ago, Hodo said:

Sorry but saying that the brits used broken mechanics to split your fleet
yes they did and we did not whine about it. we found solution


yet you used broken mechanics to avoid fights,
Yes we did and they whined about it


not once, not twice, but SEVERAL times
Exactly 2 times. PaP and SLM. Get your facts right


You would hide in a battle with an alt, once was proven in a tribunal so not an accusation.
No it was not proven. The alt was pirate (which is what was proven hence why he got banned), but he did not belong to BLACK. In fact we never know about him until he got into that battle. We of course used it to our advantage which anyone would have.


The second time you used an ally to hide in with.   
Which is totally allowed by the game mechanic and is totally legit when we work with other nations, tho indeed is a broken mechanic
 

So for a clan that wants PVP, you seem to only look for easy pickings not for fights.
You saying that our 4th rates escaped a bunch of newbs in 6th, 5th rates in order to get equal fight with other 4th rates in PB is easy pickling and not a fight? hmm ok, but you are stirring shit again.


Hell at least I admit I avoid fair fights.
We say that we would lie. We are looking for challenging fights. But that is my opinion not yours


Last night I tagged a Surprise in my Privateer, and he ran from me.
Was he BLACK? Tag my Surp see what happens

No griefing is sending a small ship with JUST enough BR to tag the trailing ship(s) of a fleet for over 6 hours as they sail somewhere. 
No. Griefing is when they don't fight, but run away and shoot sails. That is the griefing. Also having "just enough BR to tag" separates the fleet into segments. When there are 50 people screening you are pulled by 3 ships and another 5 jump in right away


I have never seen you in any of our fights. What moral right do you have to judge someone when you were not even there. Keep listening to BBC and CNN. We have first hand experience

 

[Slim McSauce]

4 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Second time we didn't use any one....so again get your facts straight before you start to make false accusations.  We tagged a fleet.  As per why there wasn't a pirate vs pirate battle out side too. We aren't crying and running to post every time ya'll use the mechanics and using it as an excuse as to why we lost a very fair and straight up fight....oh wait cause we didn't lose the port battles or any fight we got into other than a few guys that got singled out.   Why is It every time ya'll get beat you stop fighting?   We heard so much smack talk about how VCO and TF wanted fair fights and how great they where and they wanted to show us how real port battles where.  IF they where so good they didn't need screeners and now we found out why they needed them.  

Now how exactly is 23 vs 25 easy pickings?   We where down two ships compared to them at PnP.  Brits had the forts and towers to help them too since our mortar brig didn't make it in.  To me sounds like we where just fine with the challenge of an uneven fight and how did it turn out?  8 Brit ships sunk and 1 captured with zero lost in the port battle on the pirate side.  So exactly how do we just want easy pickings again?  Sounds more like Brits only want easy pickings by using there numbers to pick off and split off a much smaller group than they have.  

 

 

-Uses fleet hiding exploit with alt to sneak into PBs,

----Devs tell them no that's wrong don't do that

----------Use fleet hiding exploit again without an alt

---------------Devs turn a blind eye

----------------------continue using fleet hiding exploit to take capital ports

----------------------------"fair fights guiz"

 

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) rats

 

Edited July 21, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson

[Archaos]

1 minute ago, The Red Duke said:

BG will pull target BG and nothing else. extra slots must be joined via the joining circles.

I know what the mechanics are, I was just wondering how it worked in practice and was there ways it could be worked to give you an advantage. For example in the situation I gave if the attackers only have a PB fleet and a few ships as screeners, and the defenders have 2 full screening BG's, is it possible that the few attacking screeners are unable to pull the defending screeners into battle because of BR difference, or even if they could they would need all of their screeners to do it thus leaving the PB fleet at the mercy of the second screening BG.

There are other scenarios that I raised in the patch thread but they were never answered. But anyway this is off topic for this thread so I wont dwell on it.

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Archaos said:

I know what the mechanics are, I was just wondering how it worked in practice and was there ways it could be worked to give you an advantage. For example in the situation I gave if the attackers only have a PB fleet and a few ships as screeners, and the defenders have 2 full screening BG's, is it possible that the few attacking screeners are unable to pull the defending screeners into battle because of BR difference, or even if they could they would need all of their screeners to do it thus leaving the PB fleet at the mercy of the second screening BG.

There are other scenarios that I raised in the patch thread but they were never answered. But anyway this is off topic for this thread so I wont dwell on it.

Neither scenario is plausible because screening is griefing, numbers shouldn't dictate an engagement, and hiding a fleet in battle to sneak into PB is a legitimate tactic in Naval Warfare.

 

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[Sir Texas Sir]

3 minutes ago, Archaos said:

I know what the mechanics are, I was just wondering how it worked in practice and was there ways it could be worked to give you an advantage. For example in the situation I gave if the attackers only have a PB fleet and a few ships as screeners, and the defenders have 2 full screening BG's, is it possible that the few attacking screeners are unable to pull the defending screeners into battle because of BR difference, or even if they could they would need all of their screeners to do it thus leaving the PB fleet at the mercy of the second screening BG.

There are other scenarios that I raised in the patch thread but they were never answered. But anyway this is off topic for this thread so I wont dwell on it.

We actually last night wanted to test something about them.  What we did was have the screners in normal fleet groups so they can pull smaller groups and not all of them at the same time or get tagged by a big screener fleet and all get pulled in from that screener fleet.  While the PB fleet was in FLEET Group.  Wanted to test it out but we got little to no action (screeners had some fights on the way).  Hard to test things when the guy gives up and runs.

But this post has nothing to do about battle mechanics used by either side. It's about lost of ports and offering terms to not total crush a nation and it's player base.  I think the problem isn't how the battles started or where avoided it's more deeper than that with the clans and organization about why folks didn't show.   They can make up all the excuses they want but that won't fix the actual problems with the nations as a whole.