Wanted: British Patrol Captains

[Slamz]

17 minutes ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

a continual civil war

In my experience, wars in Naval Action are never continual. Someone folds. Heck, the British and Pirate war seems to have flared up and gone stale over the course of 2 weekends.

France and Danes are a great example too. We really hate each other but the war is so mutually harmful that it made us hammer out an agreement we could both live with and that has been the end of that.

With internal strife, there seems to be no resolution for it. It's like a forum troll with no moderators around. It can't escalate very far but it can't be resolved, either. It just keeps going til someone gets bored and leaves. Nothing is driving an agreement to be made and both sides feel they can hold out forever.

[Barbancourt]

We were never actually at war with CCCP.  That was the problem people had.  If there was some actual combat taking place it would most likely still be a daily fight, and allies would have been brought into the war as well. 

Within nation, nobody's going to back down.  There's nowhere to retreat and evacuate a buffer.  It would be a daily attempt to spread the suffering as widely as possible. 

 

Edited July 25, 2017 by Barbancourt (rownd)

[Slamz]

11 minutes ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

It would be a daily attempt to spread the suffering as widely as possible. 

That's the whole point. It's the real suffering that brings people to the negotiating table.

The easier it is for players to avoid consequences, the bigger douchebags they will be, is my experience.

[Barbancourt]

There is no level of negotiation that's ever going to repair backstabbing within the family.  We could also end up with clans of bullies and arseholes happily waging terror campaigns within the nation. 

 

[Slamz]

6 hours ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

We could also end up with clans of bullies and arseholes happily waging terror campaigns within the nation. 

Sounds great to me!

It's another reason I'd like to see this be the piracy mechanic: pirates (countrymen turned murderers) should be everywhere, not glued to "pirate ports".

Literally every nation should have a band of merry cutthroats roaming around. Keeps people on their toes. Also means PvP is more widespread rather than mostly along nation borders. Being a French-Pirate would mean you are French, use French ports, have French econ but can attack, and be attacked by, literally everyone, and you fly the black flag. (But you don't get to participate in RvR at all and you'd probably be super-gunned-for by everyone around you.)

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

6 hours ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

 We could also end up with clans of bullies and arseholes happily waging terror campaigns

 

French already are, just towards the Dutch.

 

Also, seriously? That word not censored by hello kitty? Kinda curious what else is not censored.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Davos Seasworth

[Hethwill]

There are no safe areas other than the safe areas created by the players themselves.

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

5 hours ago, The Red Duke said:

There are no safe areas other than the safe areas created by the players themselves.

Yeah but when you are a very small nation, especially one where any major resource is a significant distance and just to make a decent profit is a long distance, being picked on a larger nation every day a player might as well just stop playing. There is no point and no fun when you are forced to play one aspect of the game with no say or choice apart from the external parties. The French are no better than the "carebear alliance" and what they did to the smaller factions pre-wipe PvP2. 

[Arsilon]

9 minutes ago, Davos Seasworth said:

The French are no better than the "carebear alliance" and what they did to the smaller factions pre-wipe PvP2. 

What has "France done" up to this point? 

France has taken 2 zones in the SE corner of the map that were otherwise not being used by anyone.

France has fought a meaningless 2 week war of night time empty PB ping pong against the Danes.

France has killed captains of every nation on the open water on every part of the map.  Yes, French captains have killed Dutch in Dutch waters.  Yes, French captains have killed British in British waters. Yes, French have killed Swede captains in Swedish/Danish waters.  Up until recently French have killed Danish captains (which is why the aforementioned war started in the first place).   Yes, French have killed Pirate captains..well everywhere.   Rarely does France sink US captains because they are just way too far away to do on a consistent basis.  I think the only nation France gives a pass too currently if it can at all be helped are Spanish because they are an endangered species and we want them to breed.

Who is France "picking on" and what are we "doing to make the game unplayable for anyone?

Notice that France "skipped" past the Dutch (smaller faction) to attack Santa Marta despite longer sails for French captains, yet the Dutch continue to harass and screen against those activities?  Perhaps France should just take the Dutch ports nearby instead of the British ones?

 

[Hethwill]

Oh, by all means Davos. The "greed sickness" is on us, the players. At one point we pound our chests for being such good Nation captains.

The next moment we do stab them in the gut looking only to our own individual and clan welfare and gone with the wind with all the rest.

Some like challenges, some like easy wins, at the Nation vs Nation level.

 

 

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

6 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

Oh, by all means Davos. The "greed sickness" is on us, the players. At one point we pound our chests for being such good Nation captains.

The next moment we do stab them in the gut looking only to our own individual and clan welfare and gone with the wind with all the rest.

Some like challenges, some like easy wins, at the Nation vs Nation level.

 

 

I can respect that remark for it is honest and true. ROVER is really the only clan I do respect out of the French because even before France decided they were finally going to go after a nation that can fight back on equal terms, ROVER has always given us Dutch the decent amount of space for us to actually function and even attempt to be competitive. 

[Slamz]

58 minutes ago, Davos Seasworth said:

I can respect that remark for it is honest and true. ROVER is really the only clan I do respect out of the French because even before France decided they were finally going to go after a nation that can fight back on equal terms, ROVER has always given us Dutch the decent amount of space for us to actually function and even attempt to be competitive. 

The Dutch keep bringing a lot of this on themselves. e.g., the Dutch fleet sunk outside Coq could have just not been there. We were literally bypassing the Dutch to hit the British, who were seen as a bigger, badder, uglier enemy. Had your fleet not been outside our staging area, we wouldn't have bothered you. (I don't know if you were intending to screen for the Brits or just figured we were going to hit Maracaibo but in that case you might'a still waited for a little contention to tick up.)

I know some French clans are all about attacking the Dutch but the fact that we haven't ever taken any of your ports should be evidence enough that for the most part we're purposefully playing a defensive war there (and not really supporting the groups that were trying to flip you).

Personally I think you should attack the gulf of Mexico or just do like Rovers and go wander the map, PvPing out of free ports. Dutch land is pretty boring. Unfortunately, due to your team size, your options are probably "pretty boring" or "getting completely crushed", at least in terms of RvR.

But anyone can be king in roaming PvP. Just gotta figure out who you're willing to anger. (Try the French plan: "everyone".)

[Hethwill]

Having a No Mercy attitude or a corsair heart playstyle doesn't mean we are rear ends of mules nor that we do not possess experience in the multi levels of the game. We love reading the most funny assumptions raging like wildfire.

Thanks for the gun salute Davos.

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

34 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

Having a No Mercy attitude or a corsair heart playstyle doesn't mean we are rear ends of mules nor that we do not possess experience in the multi levels of the game. We love reading the most funny assumptions raging like wildfire.

Thanks for the gun salute Davos.

For a clan that comes in with reasonable force and hits trade ships yet does not flee with a ship comes to defend it of course you have my respect.

59 minutes ago, Slamz said:

The Dutch keep bringing a lot of this on themselves. e.g., the Dutch fleet sunk outside Coq could have just not been there. We were literally bypassing the Dutch to hit the British, who were seen as a bigger, badder, uglier enemy. Had your fleet not been outside our staging area, we wouldn't have bothered you. (I don't know if you were intending to screen for the Brits or just figured we were going to hit Maracaibo but in that case you might'a still waited for a little contention to tick up.)

We were intending for some actual pvp where the French did not back off because a trade ship was not involved. It was in our waters. No one invited the French and no one wants the French here. Frankly, we hardly care for the what goes on with GB but they have actually been nice to the Dutch so I guess screening for them if you want to call it that was a bonus. 

59 minutes ago, Slamz said:

I know some French clans are all about attacking the Dutch but the fact that we haven't ever taken any of your ports should be evidence enough that for the most part we're purposefully playing a defensive war there (and not really supporting the groups that are trying to flip you).

The French publicly declared war on us ignoring our stance of neutrality. Then sending a peace deal to us acting like you actually won something. A deal that would make the Dutch nation nothing but PVP cattle to the French. 

 

59 minutes ago, Slamz said:

Personally I think you should attack the gulf of Mexico or just do like Rovers and go wander the map, PvPing out of free ports. Dutch land is pretty boring. Unfortunately, due to your team size, your options are probably "pretty boring" or "getting completely crushed", at least in terms of RvR.

We want to but because of the French just treating us like garbage and livestock we cannot. Dont have the numbers to be in two places.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Davos Seasworth

[Bach]

13 minutes ago, Davos Seasworth said:

For a clan that comes in with reasonable force and hits trade ships yet does not flee with a ship comes to defend it of course you have my respect.

We were intending for some actual pvp where the French did not back off because a trade ship was not involved. It was in our waters. No one invited the French and no one wants the French here. Frankly, we hardly care for the what goes on with GB but they have actually been nice to the Dutch so I guess screening for them if you want to call it that was a bonus. 

The French declared war on us ignoring our stance of neutrality. Then sending a peace deal to us acting like you actually won something. A deal that would make the Dutch nation nothing but PVP cattle to the French. 

 

We want to but because of the French just treating us like garbage and livestock we cannot. Dont have the numbers to be in two places.

I'm just not understanding much of this conversation at all.  

Only half of France is still made up of French players from the end of last years PvP2.  We didn't do anything to the Dutch last year.

Im not aware of any Dutch-France peace treaty or why we would even need one.

Who is the French who are oppressing you?

Edited July 26, 2017 by Bach

[Vllad]

45 minutes ago, Davos Seasworth said:

The French publicly declared war on us ignoring our stance of neutrality. Then sending a peace deal to us acting like you actually won something. A deal that would make the Dutch nation nothing but PVP cattle to the French. 

I am French and I totally understand your position. I wouldn't accept any deal with the French either. Why would you? The Dutch have a screwed position. Fight with Brits or fight with French. If you want some PVP it has to be French. I think all of France gets this. If you want to PVP your best option is to go kill French, I think all of France knows this since it has been discussed many times with French leadership. I believe every leader in France would tell you we are good with this. It is good for both sides to kill each other at sea.

I don't believe the French have ever attacked a single port however nor have they threatened the Dutch in any way other than a few chat insults so I am not sure what you mean about the cattle thing.

I would think the French are perfect neighbors for the Dutch. You get all the PVP you could possibly want and they don't go rampaging through your ports. What more could you possibly ask for?

 

I totally get the Conqui thing. The French have showed up to other peoples port battles to get some PVP as well, ish happens.

[Slamz]

1 hour ago, Davos Seasworth said:

The French publicly declared war on us ignoring our stance of neutrality. Then sending a peace deal to us acting like you actually won something. A deal that would make the Dutch nation nothing but PVP cattle to the French. 

I guess my definitions have personally been more like this:

War: we are trying to take each other's ports and crush each other like bugs, camping capitals, hunting for traders, one-porting, that sort of thing.

Hostile: this is the default state everyone is in. Kill everything on site but don't bother with RvR because meh.

Some Kinda Deal: unusual state of affairs wherein there is "some kinda deal" in regards to who can attack what when. I hate keeping track of these things so I dislike deals but sometimes they can facilitate improved access to our preferred level of hostility.

Peace: we pretend each other does not exist.

Allies: we actively work with each other towards some fairly specific goal, probably for a limited, well-defined time.

 

With those definitions, France is hostile with everyone except the Danes. Technically we are attacking British ports but really we still see them as Hostile -- we just could use a couple new ports. I'm personally not interested in "war" with Britain. I was interested in crushing Denmark but it was decided that Peace was less annoying than constant night flips.

I think you're seeing "hostile" as "cattle farm" but for us it's just how things should be. Dutch and French should kill each other, because that's what we came to a PvP server to experience. Peace is boring and should not be a natural long term state of any two nations without some very specific, limited duration reason.

[Hethwill]

1 hour ago, Slamz said:

Peace: we pretend each other does not exist.

Oh how I chuckled... *gasps for air*

Truly the best definition of Peace in a Wargame

[Farrago]

12 hours ago, Slamz said:

I guess my definitions have personally been more like this:

War: we are trying to take each other's ports and crush each other like bugs, camping capitals, hunting for traders, one-porting, that sort of thing.

[snip]

I think you're seeing "hostile" as "cattle farm" but for us it's just how things should be. Dutch and French should kill each other, because that's what we came to a PvP server to experience. Peace is boring and should not be a natural long term state of any two nations without some very specific, limited duration reason.

Although France has refrained from attacking our ports recently, the constant raiding of our trade ships and blockading our ports has reached a level that would fit your definition of war. Willemsted looks more like KPR now.

The Dutch want to continue meeting you in the OW and doing our best to have fun with interesting and challenging PVP. However, we're bleeding active players as fast as we are bleeding ships to French raiders. I know the French aren't of one mindset on this but I'm warning you we will not be able to keep up the current pace.

This evening I was sailing from Zoutman to WS in a Snow(!) only to be jumped at Willemsted by a French Aggie, Trinc, Endy, and several Surprises. I was only able to escape by getting into harbor under the WS forts. I get it. Your guys are bored. Unfortunately we only had 2 other national players online right then so we could not respond. And it was about 9 pm Eastern!

Everyone has to play their game and I respect the French. Most of you that I have faced have been honorable but ruthless using tactics that emphasized your strengths and our weakness but I'm afraid we will soon see what happens when a stranglehold is put on a nation: not because it is French strategy, but because you have so many players out looking for PVP that you almost get in each other's way.

[Hethwill]

Maybe the time has come for British Patrol Captains, being the subject of the thread, the Dutch and the French captains, that almost get in each other's way, to sit and define common objectives. 

I like the Dutch.

I dislike ALTs.

[Farrago]

7 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

Maybe the time has come for British Patrol Captains, being the subject of the thread, the Dutch and the French captains, that almost get in each other's way, to sit and define common objectives. 

I like the Dutch.

I dislike ALTs.

Hey, we have something in common: I like the Dutch and dislike ALTS as well. Maybe there's hope for peace in our time.

[Slamz]

7 hours ago, Farrago said:

This evening I was sailing from Zoutman to WS in a Snow(!) only to be jumped at Willemsted by a French Aggie, Trinc, Endy, and several Surprises.

That does seem like a shame, really. We could use those French fighting the Pirates. The talk of the town was to "punish" the Dutch for interfering with Santa Marta but really it's just the low hanging fruit of Dutch being the only nearby target and a lot of French players being adverse to moving across the map.

Hmmm.

The lack of teleports was intended to drive bordering nations into each other, which is good thinking, but the reality of the map is that your neighbors are not always good targets. France crushing through the Dutch until they reach the British is not good gameplay for the Dutch.

The irony is that had we actually captured Santa Marta, it probably would have been better for everyone: Dutch get bypassed, British end up with a French PvP port near the Pirate PvP port at Portobelo, so maybe they'll start fighting and the French have something to do.

[Vizzini]

Surely Pirates are closer to you than the Brits anyway ? Or are you not allowed to travel thru Danish Waters ? Nothing to stop you begging on your knees to the Pirates for part of Haiti is there ? All in the spirit of the game of course.

 

It could be you just want a spot at the top table and think middle of the map suits you better, well in that case you might have to turn up to a port battle for one and maybe fight it ? 

[Vllad]

8 hours ago, Farrago said:

Everyone has to play their game and I respect the French. Most of you that I have faced have been honorable but ruthless using tactics that emphasized your strengths and our weakness but I'm afraid we will soon see what happens when a stranglehold is put on a nation: not because it is French strategy, but because you have so many players out looking for PVP that you almost get in each other's way.

Hmm, you make an excellent point.

France is primarily all open water PVP guys and I don't really think it ever occurred to any of us the ramifications of having a pure PVP nation. Even now we have spread all over the map because we ARE getting in each others way trying to find PVP.

The French actually do like the Dutch (in the way your brother always punches your arm sort of way). You guys actually fight which can't be said for everyone. I see nothing but respect in nation chat about the Dutch all the time. I bet ya if someone else attacked the Dutch, the French would be the first there to defend you.

One thing that could solve this is the Dutch could join us in some foray's into Pirate and Brit locals just like Spain does. I am not saying we have any deals with the Spain but when we run across each other in enemy territory we wave and go about our merry way. We are all out there in common bond doing what must be done to the bigger nations. If the Dutch moved to a forward operating area the French become a lot more friendly to small nations when there are bigger targets available. We small nations have to stick together in zerg territory.

Just a thought.

[Vizzini]

You're in your corner right now because of the internal divisions after the wipe as I see it. The same way the Brits can't keep hold of all their dots, because they were too greedy, grabbing all they could and declaring war on a smaller nation when really it should have been the Pirates, then and there.

 

You want to OW pvp , that's great, it's fun and it creates danger on the seas for everybody else. I applaud that , but camping outside the school playground of the Dutch when theres so few of them makes you look like the school bully who got held back after classes and is looking for somebody to bash.

 

All big teams will end up bullying, always have and always will. They usually  implode from within also.