Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum
Jones el Tuerto

+60 KNOTS! invisibility super power

Recommended Posts

 

I agree with prater.

I like this feature in a way but I have strong concerns for the possibility of exploit it. 

If it works in a outlaw battle - not good. And it shouldn't work for pve or maybe only in pve fights if your br is lower. Because when I sit before an enemy capital and I want to go away. I attack a pve trader - wait two minutes and then speed boat mode!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yup i this is a bit to much, i got sneak attacked yesterday, there was a single basic cutter lying dead in the water (prolly spying alt) and all of a sudden there was a surprise right behind my trader insta tagging me..

Revenge fleets were bad but this is ridiculous too..

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Prater said:

I captured a trader in less than 10 minutes and had a revenge fleet waiting for me. 

Where was your support to keep the "revenge" fleet occupied?

Providing the enemy with the 90 minute window you gave them the opportunity. They had nothing better to do.

In an engagement around Sant Iago, ARMED went after a Pirate Renommee. Meanwhile a Pirate fleet was forming which we ultimately diverted to Jamaica, so ARMED could leave the battle safely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Skully said:

Where was your support to keep the "revenge" fleet occupied?

Providing the enemy with the 90 minute window you gave them the opportunity. They had nothing better to do.

In an engagement around Sant Iago, ARMED went after a Pirate Renommee. Meanwhile a Pirate fleet was forming which we ultimately diverted to Jamaica, so ARMED could leave the battle safely.

So you are basically saing that I always need a clan or a random bunch of players behind me who support and protect me when I am in an instance.

Edited by Cecil Selous
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Cecil Selous said:

So you are basically saing that I always need a clan or a random bunch of players behind me who support and protect me when I am in an instance.

 

You don't have to bring a gun to a gun fight. You could bring a knife instead.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Skully said:

Where was your support to keep the "revenge" fleet occupied?

Providing the enemy with the 90 minute window you gave them the opportunity. They had nothing better to do.

In an engagement around Sant Iago, ARMED went after a Pirate Renommee. Meanwhile a Pirate fleet was forming which we ultimately diverted to Jamaica, so ARMED could leave the battle safely.

Who needs support?  And what does this matter?  You said a revenge fleet can only be formed if 90 minutes are available.  That isn't true, like I said.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Skully said:

Revenge fleets can only form if they have nothing better to do for 90 minutes. More population brings more opportunity on both sides.

 

19 minutes ago, Prater said:

Who needs support?  And what does this matter?  You said a revenge fleet can only be formed if 90 minutes are available.  That isn't true, like I said.

If you sail into enemy territory unsupported, you get what is coming to you: overwhelming enemy forces. Can't get more realistic than that.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Cecil Selous said:

So you are basically saing that I always need a clan or a random bunch of players behind me who support and protect me when I am in an instance.

And those random players hit the "revenge" fleet. More "random" players enter the region and the circle of engagement after engagement happens.

Do not give the enemy the opportunity to form up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Skully said:

 

If you sail into enemy territory unsupported, you get what is coming to you: overwhelming enemy forces. Can't get more realistic than that.

Except the ability to use coms to converge on a point and to sail 300 km in a few minutes is not.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Prater said:

Except the ability to use coms to converge on a point and to sail 300 km in a few minutes is not.

Very true, but those are equal benefits to all sides.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Skully said:

Very true, but those are equal benefits to all sides.

And the fact that battle time is different than OW time is another major player.  There is no realism with revenge fleets, at all.  There isn't a single case of an entire fleet forming up around a battle after having traveled at 75 times faster than the battle participants can travel, and using radio to do it.

 

Equal doesn't mean right, and actually it isn't equal.  Enemy waters is where people are.  Who can travel with an entire fleet there to make it equal?  And also revenge fleets don't have to happen in enemy waters, they can happen anywhere.  But enemy waters are where you are going to find pvp.  Unless you prefer the game to die.

Edited by Prater
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Prater said:

And the fact that battle time is different than OW time is another major player.  There is no realism with revenge fleets, at all.  There isn't a single case of an entire fleet forming up around a battle after having traveled at 75 times faster than the battle participants can travel, and using radio to do it.

 

Equal doesn't mean right, and actually it isn't equal.  Enemy waters is where people are.  Who can travel with an entire fleet there to make it equal?  And also revenge fleets don't have to happen in enemy waters, they can happen anywhere.

Radio isn't going away. Fast OW speed (versus real time) isn't going away. If want realism on those items, then prepare to be disappointed.

We simply dealt with the revenge fleet by not providing them the opportunity to form. (The French guy ended up with the Victory. Mission accomplished.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Skully said:

We simply dealt with the revenge fleet by not providing them the opportunity to form.

how is this a bad thing?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, but the revenge fleet is no longer a concern, because the devs fixed it.  They fixed it because like you said fast ow speed isn't going away and radio isnt going away.  So they added in an element to make it more difficult to revenge fleet using those.

Now all that needs done are tweaks here and there.

 

I tested and Outlaw Battles give you Invisibility and Speed.  This should change.
Can't join time should be at least 3 minutes (same as battle join timer).

Edited by Prater
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/17/2017 at 4:23 PM, Prater said:

I was referring to trader defensive tags.  If the Trader defensive tags, it will be impossible to catch them now.

One easy idea for this would be to make it so that the outer edge of the circle translates to about 650 yards in the battle. This guarantees that even an edge of the circle tag puts your target within Control range. @admin? I bet he could hotfix this as an experiment. It's probably just one number in the code.

I'm not sure what the current translation is but edge-of-the-circle today seems to translate to at least 1000 yards in battle. May even be more like 1500. Right now it's possible for a tag to put someone out of any sort of cannon range which is a bit pointless.

Edited by Slamz
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Mrgoldstein said:

Yup i this is a bit to much, i got sneak attacked yesterday, there was a single basic cutter lying dead in the water (prolly spying alt) and all of a sudden there was a surprise right behind my trader insta tagging me..

Revenge fleets were bad but this is ridiculous too..

 

8 hours ago, Prater said:

Yes, but the revenge fleet is no longer a concern, because the devs fixed it.  They fixed it because like you said fast ow speed isn't going away and radio isnt going away.  So they added in an element to make it more difficult to revenge fleet using those.

Yup, they "fixed" it alright. The well known invisibility gank is back with an added speed bonus to ensure you get your target.

Providing alters with such tools surely is the best solution. :P

I think I should rephrase my questions to: what type of gank do you prefer to be hit by?

If I'm out on the waters without scout, decoy or fleet, I'm putting myself at high risk.

Better reward for the gankees, so they can more easily replace their ship and go at it again. We had multi-dura, but that seriously undermines strategical logistics. (Yes, reward the carebears. It will improve the eco system.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I Like how revenge fleets are almost gone with the speed boost, it's great. 

Speed boost needs to have a long no attack timer or dual invisibility. Or possibly both. 

On revenge fleets, I've been on the wrong end many times but I recently got to take part in one a few weeks back for the first time in years. It felt so stupid, dumb and just straight up a shitty way of getting revenge. It was so easy, all I needed to do was sit right where the battle was and then as soon as enemy popped out we tagged em' and capped their ships. It was like being given a free ship without any effort. I thought it was bad being on the receiving end, but when you are the one doing it it really opens your eyes and shows you how stupid it is. Glad they are a thing of the past. Revenge fleets are just a lazy, lazy way of playing the game. 

Here's to hoping they never return! :) 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Slamz said:

One easy idea for this would be to make it so that the outer edge of the circle translates to about 650 yards in the battle. This guarantees that even an edge of the circle tag puts your target within Control range. @admin? I bet he could hotfix this as an experiment. It's probably just one number in the code.

I'm not sure what the current translation is but edge-of-the-circle today seems to translate to at least 1000 yards in battle. May even be more like 1500. Right now it's possible for a tag to put someone out of any sort of cannon range which is a bit pointless.

Please this is a bad idea, it takes all skill away from getting a good tag. Sort out the defensive tagging issue another way but leave it so that if the attacker decides to tag and be at the edge of the tag circle when the time expires then they have to work to get their prey.

The simple solution to the defensive tag is an off centered tag circle, which I assume should be relatively easy to change.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Slamz said:

One easy idea for this would be to make it so that the outer edge of the circle translates to about 650 yards in the battle. This guarantees that even an edge of the circle tag puts your target within Control range. @admin? I bet he could hotfix this as an experiment. It's probably just one number in the code.

I'm not sure what the current translation is but edge-of-the-circle today seems to translate to at least 1000 yards in battle. May even be more like 1500. Right now it's possible for a tag to put someone out of any sort of cannon range which is a bit pointless.

Yeah this is a bad idea, traders will never be able to escape anymore, this makes tagging and defensive taggin useless

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Skully said:

 

Yup, they "fixed" it alright. The well known invisibility gank is back with an added speed bonus to ensure you get your target.

Providing alters with such tools surely is the best solution. :P

I think I should rephrase my questions to: what type of gank do you prefer to be hit by?

If I'm out on the waters without scout, decoy or fleet, I'm putting myself at high risk.

Better reward for the gankees, so they can more easily replace their ship and go at it again. We had multi-dura, but that seriously undermines strategical logistics. (Yes, reward the carebears. It will improve the eco system.)

With the right tweaks, which many of us have described, invisibility ganks won't be possible.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Prater said:

With the right tweaks, which many of us have described, invisibility ganks won't be possible.

can you provide the summary of these right tweaks?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, admin said:

can you provide the summary of these right tweaks?

  • Outlaw battles shouldn't give invisibility
  • Can't join battle timer should be 3 minutes (this should always be the same as the battle join timer so you can't jump out of a battle when your friend tags an enemy and you join the battle without the enemy ever knowing you were nearby in a battle)
  • Add one more minute to the can't attack timer (if you can do the below, this isn't necessary).

 

I don't know if this is possible, but if it is possible:

  • When you are invisible, you cannot see anyone.  This should stop people from being able to set up ganks where they and their friends are invisible and sneaking up on unsuspecting passers by.
Edited by Prater
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, admin said:

can you provide the summary of these right tweaks?

1. Dual invisibility

2. Longer join timer at end of speed boost. I think @Pratermentioned 3 minutes. 

3. No speed boost after outlaw battle.

I think the longer timer may help solve the problem of an alt sitting outside spotting for an invisible ship. There may be more suggestions in the thread but these are the main ones.

 

:ph34r: by Prater !

Edited by DeRuyter
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

Dual Invisibility can lead towards spawning on top of many enemy ships, it's a double edge sword...

Indeed, but I think it brings the blindness of the 18th and 19th centuries to the forefront.  And I think it is a good compromise for OW Time Compression vs Battle Instance vs Invisibility Speed Buff on leaving battle.

Edited by Prater
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×