Exploiting physics and Home camera for observation

[siZZled1ck]

Recently I provided scouting during two port battle ops in the same location. I started this post to inquire as to the communities views on my actions and methods. I did not make an F11 report because I believe they are known byproducts of game features. As to how they may be used for intelligence gathering, this post aims to clarify that.

Nothing wrong here storm cover concealed my position.

All that rain made it hard to see me but I had little problem seeing silhouettes of ships against the sky from bellow the waves.

No storm cover the second time around. Can you spot my masts? The pirates didn't.

Too many more to post. So are my actions or part of them alright, or an abuse of game features and physics?  

 

[greybuscat]

The 2nd seems less defensible to me than the 1st, since you're blatantly sailing into land to hide your ship's profile, and possibly even making it unclickable. Both scenarios would look the same from your perspective, since angry players wouldn't even know who to complain to about it.

I'd hate to see the debug camera go, though. The default camera views mostly make for ugly screenshots and videos.

[Nelsons Barrel]

I wouldn't call it exploit if you can set a key binding in the options for the camera... Everybody can use it and the devs already nerfed the OW cam through limiting its range from unlimited range away to a few meters around your ship.

[Tomms123]

You should not be able to sail into land, that position you SHALL f11 and all other positions on the map which you can do it at.

[siZZled1ck]

3 minutes ago, Tomms123 said:

You should not be able to sail into land, that position you SHALL f11 and all other positions on the map which you can do it at.

Ill let you go spend your time bumping into the coast if you want. It's a known issue. I'm not going to say you "SHALL" do anything. Perhaps I am misreading your intentions, but It seems your blaming me for doing the right thing by addressing this at all??? and people should continue to do the right thing???

[Jones el Tuerto]

Free camera is perfect, maybe the thing below the water shouldn't be available but the rest is awesome and shouldn't change.

[Tomms123]

1 hour ago, siZZled1ck said:

Ill let you go spend your time bumping into the coast if you want. It's a known issue. I'm not going to say you "SHALL" do anything. Perhaps I am misreading your intentions, but It seems your blaming me for doing the right thing by addressing this at all??? and people should continue to do the right thing???

"I did not make an F11 report because I believe they are known byproducts of game features."

This is what you wrote, you found this spot but you didnt think "Hey this shouldnt be possible so I shall report it to the devs with an f11". If you find these spot YOU SHALL report those positions so they can be fixed. Failure to do so and using these spot I would see you as exploiting and thus I would argue on a punishment for you.

I NEVER said you should sail around the whole map and bump into stuff to see if it possible or not, you're not a paid QA. But you found this position, used it and didnt report it, that is my problem with this.

Granted you reported it now, but not then.

 

To clarify, my problem isnt with that you use the home camera feature, my problem is that you sit inside the rock and that is what you should of F11.

[siZZled1ck]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. However you have the virtue of hindsight and personally that would be small minded of me to simply stop there and report it as a bug and move on. I'm a curious individual and take an active interest in the development of this game. How far does the rabbit hole go? Had i just reported the one bug I wouldn't be able to address a larger spectrum. Id like to think both of our intentions are in the same direction, and thank you for your comments on the matter. Perhaps I'm intending to show a different side of exploiting? Find an issue, investigate, legitimize its potential impact on the game, and finally bring it to the community and developers to find the best solution. As in this case it involves the loved home camera I would not want that to be removed because of this, but I am open to ideas.

[Skully]

I think this can be moved to support.

Sailing through land is a bug, please F11.

Initially we had free camera and I showed off the issue as well. So it was removed. The server however currently determines LoS purely on range, so you could actually cheat to "see" other ships. Most easy solution: bring back free camera.

Maybe in future proper LoS can be determined on server, but you would also get "invisible" ships as in WoWs. 

[Prater]

5 hours ago, siZZled1ck said:

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. However you have the virtue of hindsight and personally that would be small minded of me to simply stop there and report it as a bug and move on. I'm a curious individual and take an active interest in the development of this game. How far does the rabbit hole go? Had i just reported the one bug I wouldn't be able to address a larger spectrum. Id like to think both of our intentions are in the same direction, and thank you for your comments on the matter. Perhaps I'm intending to show a different side of exploiting? Find an issue, investigate, legitimize its potential impact on the game, and finally bring it to the community and developers to find the best solution. As in this case it involves the loved home camera I would not want that to be removed because of this, but I am open to ideas.

Those who exploit without reporting the exploit usually get punished.  I'd go back to that spot and f11 it.  Merely saying you can do this isn't enough.  Go to the spot you did it at and f11 it.

[siZZled1ck]

As if the big red letters of Saint-Nicolas are not visible. Alas it seems some will entrench themselves on an aspect of a situation they either agree or disagree with deafening all other perspectives. F11 holes in the map, point made. I didn't put them there. I did exploit them (punishable act). What was my intent? Id prefer to see more than six inches in front of my face while walking through life. I've spent too much time defending my intent and actions on this topic. I too was deafened, thinking I had performed a service worthy of discussion. Only to be greeted with a preference for ignorance. Still thank you for your thoughts and time. Others may share my views, but I should not imagine everyone will agree with my point of view whether its from bellow the waves, up on high, or under a rock.

[Tomms123]

On 2017-07-16 at 2:14 PM, siZZled1ck said:

Had i just reported the one bug I wouldn't be able to address a larger spectrum. Id like to think both of our intentions are in the same direction, and thank you for your comments on the matter. Perhaps I'm intending to show a different side of exploiting? Find an issue, investigate, legitimize its potential impact on the game, and finally bring it to the community and developers to find the best solution. 

4

And you couldn't do that when you have f11 the bug because of what?

 

You asked in your first post 

Quote

Too many more to post. So are my actions or part of them alright, or an abuse of game features and physics?  

And the answer is "an abuse", the reason is the following:

You didn't f11 the bug and you used it, I don't know if you have used it since that screenshot was taken or before that.

 

The thing here isn't the camera, that has been known since OW was put up (it was used to take better pictures on the OW) and it was for a brief time removed due to players (like me and others) using it to stay behind an island and look over it to check if there were someone there. Or just to look ahead or behind you to check if someone were there.

The thing as I have written about 3 times now is that you hid inside the rock so only your top mast was showing, that is the issue here and nothing else from the standpoint of doing wrong as the camera (as written earlier here) issue have been known for about 2 years+.

[Hodo]

Damn people get off his case.  He is reporting it... he isnt like some other people in this game who are repeatedly abusing the same bugs and exploits without ever mention about it till they get busted.  

[Prater]

1 hour ago, Hodo said:

Damn people get off his case.  He is reporting it... he isnt like some other people in this game who are repeatedly abusing the same bugs and exploits without ever mention about it till they get busted.  

What is so hard about going to the spot, doing whatever was required to get there, and f11ing it?  When you f11 it, it sends the devs a screenshot, and it sends game info and logs to the devs.  What is so hard about reproducing it and sending the devs the required game data and logs that they need to figure it out and fix it instead of looking for a needle in a hay stack?

edit:  it also sends the devs the exact coordinates of the trouble spot.

And he also asks if this is abuse or intended game mechanics.  It is obviously not intended and abuse.  Just f11 it to be safe and also f11 it so the devs can fix it.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Prater

[Hodo]

33 minutes ago, Prater said:

What is so hard about going to the spot, doing whatever was required to get there, and f11ing it?  When you f11 it, it sends the devs a screenshot, and it sends game info and logs to the devs.  What is so hard about reproducing it and sending the devs the required game data and logs that they need to figure it out and fix it instead of looking for a needle in a hay stack?

edit:  it also sends the devs the exact coordinates of the trouble spot.

And he also asks if this is abuse or intended game mechanics.  It is obviously not intended and abuse.  Just f11 it to be safe and also f11 it so the devs can fix it.

Well there is the screen shot, if you cant figure it out from the screen shot then perhaps he should... but I can sail there at any time I am in game and do it myself if I was so inclined.  Which I am not.

[Prater]

2 minutes ago, Hodo said:

Well there is the screen shot, if you cant figure it out from the screen shot then perhaps he should... but I can sail there at any time I am in game and do it myself if I was so inclined.  Which I am not.

The screenshot doesnt give exact coordinates or game data/logs that may be required to reproduce or find a fix.

[siZZled1ck]

I Did say you made your point about I should have F11 it . At this point of being insulted for trying to be helpful I will not be sailing 2 hours or so of my time because as you put I don't get paid for that. 

[Hodo]

15 hours ago, Prater said:

The screenshot doesnt give exact coordinates or game data/logs that may be required to reproduce or find a fix.

IF you cant figure it out from that screen shot that it is outside of the square fort of Saint Nic, then well I feel for you.  Because I can tell you exactly where that is, and could probably find that exact point in real life on Google Earth.   

[Prater]

26 minutes ago, Hodo said:

IF you cant figure it out from that screen shot that it is outside of the square fort of Saint Nic, then well I feel for you.  Because I can tell you exactly where that is, and could probably find that exact point in real life on Google Earth.   

LOL, google earth has nothing to do with this game.  That area is several thousand coordinates squared.  And again, doesn't upload game data.

4 hours ago, siZZled1ck said:

I Did say you made your point about I should have F11 it . At this point of being insulted for trying to be helpful I will not be sailing 2 hours or so of my time because as you put I don't get paid for that. 

Not a single person insulted you, if you are going to be on the internet, you are going to need thicker skin.  Saying nothing about your chosen username.

Edited July 18, 2017 by Prater

[Hodo]

4 minutes ago, Prater said:

LOL, google earth has nothing to do with this game.  That area is several thousand coordinates squared.  And again, doesn't upload game data.

Not a single person insulted you, if you are going to be on the internet, you are going to need thicker skin.  Saying nothing about your chosen username.

You sir are the most literal human being I have seen on these forums.  

 

[Prater]

28 minutes ago, Hodo said:

You sir are the most literal human being I have seen on these forums.  

You obviously haven't taken part in many internet discussions, because without formatting or clues, it is impossible to know when someone is joking or being sarcastic, when their text is just plain.  And that you don't seem to realize that coordinates are necessary along with game files tells me you aren't technically inclined, which makes the google earth thing seem like you meant it.

Rules state that exploits are to be f11ed and reported each time it is used and not to use exploits consistently.

Now perhaps off topic remarks should stay out of tribunal threads.

 

All Tomms and I have asked for is for him to f11 it to help the devs out because this is clearly a game breaking major exploit that if people figure out how to do can ruin the game.

Edited July 18, 2017 by Prater

[siZZled1ck]

retracted 

 

Edited July 18, 2017 by siZZled1ck
off topic

[Hethwill]

Please take topics not related to the primary subject of the thread to a new discussion thread in the Tavern or any other place you see fit.

Thanks.

 

[Hodo]

2 hours ago, Prater said:

You obviously haven't taken part in many internet discussions, because without formatting or clues, it is impossible to know when someone is joking or being sarcastic, when their text is just plain.  And that you don't seem to realize that coordinates are necessary along with game files tells me you aren't technically inclined, which makes the google earth thing seem like you meant it.

Rules state that exploits are to be f11ed and reported each time it is used and not to use exploits consistently.

Now perhaps off topic remarks should stay out of tribunal threads.

 

All Tomms and I have asked for is for him to f11 it to help the devs out because this is clearly a game breaking major exploit that if people figure out how to do can ruin the game.

He is unable to head back to that location due to hostility reasons, and did the next best thing.  Posted screen shots with detailed information as he could give.  I am sorry if that is not spot on perfect but it is damned close.  

If you are so bothered by it, you can gladly sail to the square fort next to Saint Nic and F11 yourself.  

[Prater]

I don't know how he got into the land.  I've sailed into land plenty of times and stopped without ever going into land.  I don't know how he caused this exploit, or exactly what path he took to get there.  I've never seen or heard of anyone sailing into land before.  So how can I reproduce it?  Give me a set of instructions with the required keypresses, coordinates for entry or path if that is required, and I will do it if people are too lazy to f11 it themselves.  Also, hostility has nothing to do with where you can and can't sail to.  And Tomms is a moderator (doesn't show on the forums that way but he is) and he said 

On 2017-07-16 at 0:27 PM, Tomms123 said:

You should not be able to sail into land, that position you SHALL f11 and all other positions on the map which you can do it at.

This should be end of story...but if you want to continue to discuss and maintain he's wrong....

As I said

4 hours ago, Prater said:

All Tomms and I have asked for is for him to f11 it to help the devs out because this is clearly a game breaking major exploit that if people figure out how to do can ruin the game.

What's so hard to understand, if you know how to exploit it, do it once, send an f11 with an explanation so the devs get the game logs and the game coordinates and can fix a game breaking bug.  These are the rules, if you find an exploit, f11 it.  If you find a bug, f11 it.  Why are people so adverse to f11ing?