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50 minutes ago, Jake Newport said:

And i really did enjoy the fight. My bad i entered too close to the fort

Happened to me as well. But you lost the time to kill the fort before I could reach you. Blessing in disguise your mast didn't fall at the first hit. So you could escape.

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Just now, Knobby said:

Maybe not a good example as the light brigade is an example of mindlessly following orders over common sense... Brave, but impossibly foolish.

Yes, but such has been the trait in Britain's military for centuries, to the point where Field Marshall Erwin Rommel stated that with the German Officer Corps and British troops he could conquer the world. 

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You get better by doing PvP, not getting yourself smashed in PB and then goind back to PvE - that leads to nowhere.

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1 hour ago, Batman said:

They need to get experience. Worst they can lose in an offensive PB is a ship. No big deal.

 

I have no argument with that.  If you cannot bear to lose a ship then you will learn nothing in this game.  But for experience to be profitable, you have to learn something from it that will make it a better experience next time.  Having my face smashed against a wall taught me what?  To avoid getting my face smashed against a wall?  I think I knew that already.

 

30 minutes ago, Sir Lancelot Holland said:

Yes, but such has been the trait in Britain's military for centuries, to the point where Field Marshall Erwin Rommel stated that with the German Officer Corps and British troops he could conquer the world. 

Lions led by donkeys eh?  But while that may be part of the British Army tradition, it has never been the way of the Royal Navy.

Charging guns from the front taught Lord Lucan and Lord Cardigan what?  Not to charge guns from the front?  It is clear that even those two incompetents already knew that.  What it taught the soldiers who made the charge and survived is a more interesting question.

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16 minutes ago, Toto Cabbage said:

You get better by doing PvP, not getting yourself smashed in PB and then goind back to PvE - that leads to nowhere.

100% true in my experience.  If it leads anywhere, it leads to players quitting the game either out of boredom or frustration.  A lot of importance is attached to port battles in this game, but for the participants they are often as much fun as getting your dangly bits caught in a rat trap.  That is why the true carebears don't do port battles as a rule - at least not if there is any danger of enemy players turning up.  So the players who fought at Bensalem and Ambergrease may well have been noobs in your opinion, but calling them carebears is probably a bit unfair.

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52 minutes ago, Toto Cabbage said:

You get better by doing PvP, not getting yourself smashed in PB and then goind back to PvE - that leads to nowhere.

There is a certain difference between pvp and rvr. You don't become a good rvr player if you do a lot of pvp.

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4 hours ago, Never Surrender said:

You know there is something wrong with the game when the biggest nation of all fills portbattles always with the same 7 guys. Yaya, i know, the rest is pve-trash...

As far as I know it isn't against any rules if someone else in GB get a group together and builds hostility on a port... Just get your clan together and make a PB.. plenty of ports in the panama region..

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55 minutes ago, Graf Bernadotte said:

There is a certain difference between pvp and rvr. You don't become a good rvr player if you do a lot of pvp.

At Ambergrease all of the remaining screeners (including many good PVP players) jumped into a battle outside where the Russians had managed to tag our Mortar Brig from inside our battlegroup (we are scratching our heads as to how that is possible).  The idea of screening is to keep those guys in battle but our entire PB fleet was left sat outside with no support and 5 Russian ships that equated to our BR sailed out and tagged us.  Tactically I salute what the Russians did.  We managed to get enough people out to get 3 or 4 into PB and then got others to join after but we had no PB leader so we put together a plan to try and secure the first circle and fake for the middle circle whilst heading to join 2 players we had trying to take third circle.  We had no mortar brig so skated the fort guns.  We eventually fought when one of our guys was in danger of getting cut off and we would have lost on numbers anyway.

The truth is we lost because PVP players looked for marks against the Russians outside of port (nobody remained to screen) and the PB fleet that entered battle was not the planned one.  I have learned more about tactics and strategy in one night from having my ass kicked than I would have in normal PVP.  I'd also sail with any one of the guys who entered into that PB knowing they were up against the odds.  No carebears there...

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1 hour ago, Rufus Swipe said:

 

I have no argument with that.  If you cannot bear to lose a ship then you will learn nothing in this game.  But for experience to be profitable, you have to learn something from it that will make it a better experience next time.  Having my face smashed against a wall taught me what?  To avoid getting my face smashed against a wall?  I think I knew that already.

 

Lions led by donkeys eh?  But while that may be part of the British Army tradition, it has never been the way of the Royal Navy.

Charging guns from the front taught Lord Lucan and Lord Cardigan what?  Not to charge guns from the front?  It is clear that even those two incompetents already knew that.  What it taught the soldiers who made the charge and survived is a more interesting question.

The same argument could be applied to Jutland, pitching Battlecruisers against Battleships was hardly an intelligent decision either, as was stockpiling  cordite where it was vulnerable to fire to achieve a faster rate of fire. Naturally the Admiralty built HMS Hood then went out and did exactly the same thing in 1941! That said, they got up, went back and did the job, as for the Light Brigade the very first thing the Survivors asked was 'are we going back again?' It is that spirit that defines a military force no matter what nation they fight for.     

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3 hours ago, Graf Bernadotte said:

That's exactly my point. More experience leads to less complaining about broken PB mechanic in 2400 BR ports.

And even more experience leads to even making proposals on improving roe and pb mechanics. 

1 hour ago, Graf Bernadotte said:

There is a certain difference between pvp and rvr. You don't become a good rvr player if you do a lot of pvp.

Nope. RvR is PvP. It's easier to get better in rvr when one does a lot of pvp than the other way round. One doesn't learn pvp basics in rvr but in ow pvp.

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2 hours ago, Rufus Swipe said:

Having my face smashed against a wall taught me what?  To avoid getting my face smashed against a wall?  I think I knew that already.

 

 

Then having your face smashed against a wall shouldn't have happened in the first place ;)

But some people learn faster than others, so somebody will have a few more cuts and bruises before he finally learns to adapt.

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5 hours ago, Graf Bernadotte said:

Instead of changing reality there is also the possibility adapting your tactic to existing reality. A lot of defenders use anti mortar brigs. You can send surprises or Wasas against enemy mortar brigs or you focuse your forces to sink the enemy main fleet, what you did. The points for losing the fort is the price for your supremacy in brawl then.

There is no free lunch.

For killing towers you get less points. Result is that nobody kills towers in PBs anymore.

I am not going to pb like french. If we don't smash the enemy fleet we don't deserve the port. 

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Just now, Gregory Rainsborough said:

It should be based on who wins the fight rather than who wins the kite of which the French are (unfortunately for us) masters.

We just need to come up with a more effective way of stopping them running away.

Use kiting against Swedes. It will be fixed in 2 weeks.

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4 hours ago, Toto Cabbage said:

I don't recall being defeated by Russians in any battle. I guess you are talking about beating those PvE carebears yesterday ? Oh yeah good job, I'm sure it will boost your morale , your nation needs it ;).

Weren’t you in Georgetown way back when?  I know hachi was. And you guys lost. You also lost to us at little cayman with your troll fleet.  

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2 minutes ago, Gregory Rainsborough said:

That same George Town when we were winning the fight but you won by circles?

I remember that.

strategy.  You lost.

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1 hour ago, Roadkill said:

 

At Ambergrease all of the remaining screeners (including many good PVP players) jumped into a battle outside where the Russians had managed to tag our Mortar Brig from inside our battlegroup (we are scratching our heads as to how that is possible).  The idea of screening is to keep those guys in battle but our entire PB fleet was left sat outside with no support and 5 Russian ships that equated to our BR sailed out and tagged us.  Tactically I salute what the Russians did.  We managed to get enough people out to get 3 or 4 into PB and then got others to join after but we had no PB leader so we put together a plan to try and secure the first circle and fake for the middle circle whilst heading to join 2 players we had trying to take third circle.  We had no mortar brig so skated the fort guns.  We eventually fought when one of our guys was in danger of getting cut off and we would have lost on numbers anyway.

The truth is we lost because PVP players looked for marks against the Russians outside of port (nobody remained to screen) and the PB fleet that entered battle was not the planned one.  I have learned more about tactics and strategy in one night from having my ass kicked than I would have in normal PVP.  I'd also sail with any one of the guys who entered into that PB knowing they were up against the odds.  No carebears there...

I commented to players like @Toto Cabbage why his fleet of screeners decided to jump in a battle for marks instead of making sure your PB was safe to get into battle.  Your PB fleet was pulled into battle by 2-3 people.  Dear Otto here then just went ahead to call all the SALTYP guys trash and that he doesn't give a shit about you and you're "carebears" 

A fine piece of garbage some of you have decided to follow in the brit nation.  I'm surprised some guys in SLRN and RSC tolerate him.  

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1 hour ago, Batman said:

Then having your face smashed against a wall shouldn't have happened in the first place ;)

But some people learn faster than others, so somebody will have a few more cuts and bruises before he finally learns to adapt.

I wasn't really speaking for myself but for the other players there.  I've had the shit kicked out of me all over the Caribbean and am always richer for the experience.  What annoyed me about getting dragged into Bensalem to replace a player who failed to show up on time was that there wasn't even one member of the attacking clan there to share my pain.  I call that rude.

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36 minutes ago, Christendom said:

Dear Otto here then just went ahead to call all the SALTYP guys trash and that he doesn't give a shit about you and you're "carebears" 

Nah, trash is reserved to your nation.

Edited by Toto Cabbage
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1 hour ago, Palatinose said:

And even more experience leads to even making proposals on improving roe and pb mechanics. 

Nope. RvR is PvP. It's easier to get better in rvr when one does a lot of pvp than the other way round. One doesn't learn pvp basics in rvr but in ow pvp.

Such proposals are too often let by very selfish ideas. Each nation has other conditions for rvr. Individual experience opens your eyes only for the conditions of your nation, but not for the opposite view on things. A small clan with six excellent players like Rubli thinks completely different of PB mechanic for 2400 BR ports than a clan which can rely on 20 not so excellent players and 30 screeners who know not a lot more but to shoot sails very successful.

Making good proposals for PB mechanic needs experience in rvr, but a lot more it needs imagination for the impact on the game. That's why most of those proposals are nothing more than continuation of a war with other means.

Roadkill explained very well that pvp goes about sinking ships and rvr goes about denying PB fleets entry into PB and gathering 1000 points for victory. Sinking ships is not needed in rvr. It's only a means to an end. That's why pvp players can be a pain in the ass of a PB fleet.

Edited by Graf Bernadotte

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1 hour ago, HachiRoku said:

I am not going to pb like french. If we don't smash the enemy fleet we don't deserve the port. 

That's pvp thinking. You don't have to change PB mechanic for that. Doing PvP instead of RvR solves your problem.

Edited by Graf Bernadotte

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