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Repeated Tagging Issues

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12 minutes ago, Vllad said:

 

I did warn you that my suggestions suck!

First however re-tagging and a revenge fleet are two different things. Re-tagging is when I attack someone and they get away then I just retag them again to continue to get them in battles. Revenge fleet is someone pops out of the instance only to be re-engaged with another group outside.

I don't mind the mechanics as they are but people keep coming here to ask for changes and I am only pointing out that all of their suggestions just simply won't make any difference unless you do something extreme.

Voice Com's will always create re-tagging and revenge fleets no matter how many bad suggestions people bring to this board. If you want to stop re-tagging then you need to lock the players into the instance until someone is dead period. That is how extreme you have to go in order to prevent people from tagging over and over.

For revenge fleets you have to make it impossible for anyone to be caught for very long periods of time after combat. Otherwise give it up and accept them.

I didn't say these were good suggestions, I am only pointing out that is how far you have to go to eliminate voice com's as a factor.

 

Allowing people to log out is a terrible idea. I have camped people at ports for more than 90 mins. I would do the same for people who just log out.

Im not picking you out so dont be offended but im using you because you are proving my point when it comes to reveng mindset.

This player says he will sit 90 minutes outside a port in order to gank someone.  90!!! Just sitting doing nothing! And people complain they don't have time to sail?  This is what ive been saying for over a year. Its not a time thing its a revenge thing and some people will do ANYTHING to get it including sitting for hours and hours doing nothing just waiting to revenge gank.

Putting a cooldown on teleports or allowing teleports away from battle is the only way to fix reveng ganks and constant retags just to force someone to log off and lose.

Sorry but nobody is going to play a game where people who see blood and will do anything to get it are given freebie paths to do it.

Thanks sir for your honesty. 

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And then the both of you want to dictate how players must spend their time:

  1. Being forced to play continously
  2. Being stuck behind a teleport cooldown

:lol:

@Vllad you do have some points by the extremist positions. But having no option but to die as a trader when tagged will quickly empty the world of traders.

The game dictating how folks should schedule their RL is simply bad.

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14 minutes ago, Vllad said:

 

I did warn you that my suggestions suck!

First however re-tagging and a revenge fleet are two different things. Re-tagging is when I attack someone and they get away then I just retag them again to continue to get them in battles. Revenge fleet is someone pops out of the instance only to be re-engaged with another group outside.

I don't mind the mechanics as they are but people keep coming here to ask for changes and I am only pointing out that all of their suggestions just simply won't make any difference unless you do something extreme.

Voice Com's will always create re-tagging and revenge fleets no matter how many bad suggestions people bring to this board. If you want to stop re-tagging then you need to lock the players into the instance until someone is dead period. That is how extreme you have to go in order to prevent people from tagging over and over.

For revenge fleets you have to make it impossible for anyone to be caught for very long periods of time after combat. Otherwise give it up and accept them.

I didn't say these were good suggestions, I am only pointing out that is how far you have to go to eliminate voice com's as a factor.

 

Allowing people to log out is a terrible idea. I have camped people at ports for more than 90 mins. I would do the same for people who just log out.

The reason people complain about the constant retagging by revenge fleets is that although they know they can escape with the constant retagging they end up running away for hours and if they do not have the time to do that due to RL then they are forced to surrender.

You will never be able to counter someone who is willing to sit outside where someone has logged off for several hours waiting for them to log back in, but thankfully there are not many people who are that persistent, so it would not be a major issue.

I do firmly believe that the allowing to log off from battle with a cooldown on attacking once logging back in is the best compromise for all, whether it be the tagging/retagging or the avoidance of revenge fleets. It is not a perfect solution (as I do not think there is one) but it gives all parties some chance. The raider does not have to face the revenge fleet but at the same time the revenge fleet know the raider will not be able to attack for some time and the poor defenseless trader will know that if he escapes the raider then he can log off to avoid retag. 

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14 minutes ago, Archaos said:

The reason people complain about the constant retagging by revenge fleets is that although they know they can escape with the constant retagging they end up running away for hours and if they do not have the time to do that due to RL then they are forced to surrender.

You will never be able to counter someone who is willing to sit outside where someone has logged off for several hours waiting for them to log back in, but thankfully there are not many people who are that persistent, so it would not be a major issue.

I do firmly believe that the allowing to log off from battle with a cooldown on attacking once logging back in is the best compromise for all, whether it be the tagging/retagging or the avoidance of revenge fleets. It is not a perfect solution (as I do not think there is one) but it gives all parties some chance. The raider does not have to face the revenge fleet but at the same time the revenge fleet know the raider will not be able to attack for some time and the poor defenseless trader will know that if he escapes the raider then he can log off to avoid retag. 

Your logoff with cooldown is a good middle ground but you will never get the hard core gankers support because they cant even comprehend what you are saying. They only see cooldown and fair and their eyes gloss over and they thumbs down it.

You are right when you say nobody will play a game where they are forced to run for hours each battle or surrender.  Wish you could make a naval action game lol.

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39 minutes ago, Vllad said:

Isn't everyone doing that? That is what we do in France to guard our waters.

Most people I have seen are sitting about 60-90second out from the battle.

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1 minute ago, Mrdoomed said:

Your logoff with cooldown is a good middle ground but you will never get the hard core gankers support because they cant even comprehend what you are saying. They only see cooldown and fair and their eyes gloss over and they thumbs down it.

You are right when you say nobody will play a game where they are forced to run for hours each battle or surrender.  Wish you could make a naval action game lol.

Thankyou I am glad you can see the compromise in my suggestion. The thing is we dont need the gankers support we just need the Devs to take note and see it as a possible solution to be tried. The same solution was used for entry to port battles after logoff and you do not see many complaints about that now it has been implemented.

Of course as Skully says people may still try and game it to find ways round, but at least it would be a step in the right direction and loopholes could be dealt with as they were discovered.

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24 minutes ago, Archaos said:

Thankyou I am glad you can see the compromise in my suggestion. The thing is we dont need the gankers support we just need the Devs to take note and see it as a possible solution to be tried. The same solution was used for entry to port battles after logoff and you do not see many complaints about that now it has been implemented.

Of course as Skully says people may still try and game it to find ways round, but at least it would be a step in the right direction and loopholes could be dealt with as they were discovered.

Or accept the loopholes as they are. As long as they do not provide advantage to one side and can be (ab)used equally. :D

Edited by Skully

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@Mrdoomed I am not sure that no cooldown teleport has anything to do with no escape re-tagging in capitol waters (the "Home Defense fleet"). For the most part there are enough players around some capitols that they don't have to tp to form the fleet. Look at the OP - he was operating off MT and some ships came directly from there and some actually sailed from another location because of the hours of re-tagging! Look at the screens the original opponent sailed back out of port with the chasing fleet. Bottom line in this case the revenge fleet would have come out even without any teleport in game.

Sadly it looks as if   @EliteDelta was on a solo raid and he certainly did not pick on a newbie trader, so I wouldn't call him a ganker and he got a 5 hour chase for his trouble.

 

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3 hours ago, Mrdoomed said:

Im not picking you out so dont be offended but im using you because you are proving my point when it comes to reveng mindset.

This player says he will sit 90 minutes outside a port in order to gank someone.  90!!! 

No offense taken!

I am a perfect example of what you dislike about the game and I get it. I just don't think any game mechanic can solve players like me. Players can though. 

 

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3 hours ago, Skully said:

 

:lol:

@Vllad you do have some points by the extremist positions. But having no option but to die as a trader when tagged will quickly empty the world of traders.

The game dictating how folks should schedule their RL is simply bad.

You wouldn't get an argument from me. Your points are completely valid. However if RL comes up and you are stuck getting tagged maybe its time to fight it out and be done with it. Those doing the tagging don't know your wife is screaming at the door. I think the wife is worth 200k in game gold. 

 

I to have been heading to bed when all of a sudden PVP breaks out. I just know I am going without sleep before work or I am fighting it out win or lose. 

 

Edited by Vllad

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19 minutes ago, Vllad said:

No offense taken!

I am a perfect example of what you dislike about the game and I get it. I just don't think any game mechanic can solve players like me. Players can though. 

 

Acually you are a great player and i dont take any issue with the blood lust you get when defending your turf. I dont even mind you sailing across the sea to protect a port with raiders near. What i do hate is giving players like you the ability  to teleport anywhere on the map so no matter how much i strategize and plan ahead to attack a lone ship you can teleport to my area and zip out and then wait 90 minutes or longer to kill me.

Before we could teleport my friend and i was the surge of the Caymans and the brits called is the cayman pirates. We had great battles and most we fought respected how we played. We became such a thorn that 2 clans made the caymans thier permanent home and would stalk us for hours. It was freaking great cat and mouse games and eventually we had to find a secondary port to raid from. Then it became a chess match of getting them to waste thier 1 teleport that evening to come to where we where not amd then we where free to raid.

Tldr if a guy like you puts in the time to sail to me and then stalk me i salute you, if you just teleport anywhere on the map i go amd camp me i say game is broken and quit. Naturally weve all quit. Its just a shame there are guys and mods who refuse to admit a player like you exists . They act like the only place you are is in kpr lol.

Hats off sir if you put in the time !

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Honestly, this is the main reason I barely login anymore.  I need to make sure I have 2+ hours of playtime and as a 50+ hour/week working 39 year old it's rare that I can find that.  Even in my Privateer or Pickle where I can usually escape there's always another tagger waiting outside.  Yay emergent gameplay!

Maybe I should buy an ALT to counter-tag the repeat taggers!  Lol...  

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1 hour ago, kovah said:

Honestly, this is the main reason I barely login anymore.  I need to make sure I have 2+ hours of playtime and as a 50+ hour/week working 39 year old it's rare that I can find that.  Even in my Privateer or Pickle where I can usually escape there's always another tagger waiting outside.  Yay emergent gameplay!

Maybe I should buy an ALT to counter-tag the repeat taggers!  Lol...  

Perfectly said, but now we are being told that its ok because it is an exploit everyone can use lol. 

I quit logging in as well because if i was lucky enough to find someone to attack who didnt have his own fleet i knew I either needed 3 extra hours to run from the reveng tags or i had to sacrifice my ship. Why bother playing. This is nothing more than a port battle sim for the few people who enjoy empty port battles with broken rvr mechanics. 

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1 minute ago, Mrdoomed said:

This is nothing more than a port battle sim for the few people who enjoy empty port battles with broken rvr mechanics. 

You've been saying this for at least a week, and in that time I've made over 1M gold from capping player traders with my Privateer.

So... I just don't agree. I think the privateering/pirating game is better than it has ever been, even with the revenge fleet stuff. Find a different hunting ground, they are not all created equal.

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5 minutes ago, Benedict Ahhnold said:

Find a different hunting ground, they are not all created equal.

This is a fair point.  Curious, including sailing time to and from plus battle time with no repeat taggers how much time are you spending finding and participating in these fights?  I get that this game is totally a time sink across the board, I knew that when I purchased it during Early Access release.  But even if I could find a battle right outside my home port and even with 0 repeat taggers a battle can last quite some time (mostly due to me not really being that good =) so I have to chose my playtime sparingly.  I'm not saying I'm done logging in - I still really enjoy the game when I have time - it's just that I rarely login due to the time constraints which is admittedly probably more my own problem than the game mechanics.

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29 minutes ago, kovah said:

This is a fair point.  Curious, including sailing time to and from plus battle time with no repeat taggers how much time are you spending finding and participating in these fights?  I get that this game is totally a time sink across the board, I knew that when I purchased it during Early Access release.  But even if I could find a battle right outside my home port and even with 0 repeat taggers a battle can last quite some time (mostly due to me not really being that good =) so I have to chose my playtime sparingly.  I'm not saying I'm done logging in - I still really enjoy the game when I have time - it's just that I rarely login due to the time constraints which is admittedly probably more my own problem than the game mechanics.

The time spent patrolling really varies... sometimes I get lucky and spot someone right away, within minutes of leaving port, and other times I sail for much longer without seeing a soul. It also depends on how active the server is, which factions are operating in the area, which regions have hostility grinding and/or port battles going on, and a bunch of other variables that are hard to predict or characterize in a vacuum.

Suffice to say, when the area I hunt feels "safe" for traders, based on no reports of pirate activity nearby, and the server population is good, then you'll find them out in strong numbers. Especially when the Pirates have a port battle scheduled for somewhere far away :)

As far the combat part goes, that varies also. If the player trader is AFK (and stays AFK) then it's quick. Likewise if they choose to surrender. But if they fight, it can take 20-30 minutes or more, depending on how much of a fight they put up, how good (or bad) my initial tag was, how much cargo they're carrying (and hence how fast they can run, if they choose to run) and so forth.

Overall, I'd say that unlike grinding PVE (warships and/or NPC traders), you can't really very easily put a number on finding player traders. I devote a few hours a night to playing, lately more than in the past, and I've been having a lot of fun. Last night I was completely skunked, but on the weekend I cleaned up. It sort of averages out.

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1 hour ago, Benedict Ahhnold said:

You've been saying this for at least a week, and in that time I've made over 1M gold from capping player traders with my Privateer.

So... I just don't agree. I think the privateering/pirating game is better than it has ever been, even with the revenge fleet stuff. Find a different hunting ground, they are not all created equal.

Don't know what to tell ya. Maybe its the servers or the time playes or the amount of time played. Either way you act like im the only one with this issue. The forums are full of examples including this freaking topic lol. And Hodo shame on you,  you have admitted  several times that hunting is already falling iff even for you and you play way way way way way more than me. You are a hardcore guy and you're having trouble so IMAGINE someone inbour shoes. Thanks.

Edited by Mrdoomed

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