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Genma Saotome

Naval Action -- Mediterranean

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Whenever they're done with Naval Action -- as an open world sailing/fighting sim -- make a copy and redo the map, landforms, etc. for the Mediterranean.

Pirates from all of the Arab cities between Tunis to Tobruck.

Spain and France are themselves.

Great Brittan has Gibraltar and Alexandria and not much else (e.g., similar to Sweden in the current game -- very hard to play)

Neutral shipping from Denmark, Sweden, USA.

Servers could be assigned specific years, so early years Portugal would be neutral and later years British, Italy would be all neutral in early years, mostly French in later ones, and so on. Denmark and the USA can change from Neutral to hostile to Great Britain in later years too.

Edited by Genma Saotome
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Although it would be nice to experience different maps, we are struggling to fill the current servers and maps without introducing new maps and different time period servers.

By the way a European map would have two main PvP areas, the English channel and the Straits of Gibraltar and I could imagine the Spanish would take Gibraltar at all costs.

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On 7/8/2017 at 6:48 AM, Archaos said:

Although it would be nice to experience different maps, we are struggling to fill the current servers and maps without introducing new maps and different time period servers.

By the way a European map would have two main PvP areas, the English channel and the Straits of Gibraltar and I could imagine the Spanish would take Gibraltar at all costs.

U forgot about passage for Baltic to North Sea - Sund, Kattegat and two others. Bosfor passage as well.

Edited by Bart Smith
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On 7/7/2017 at 10:48 PM, Archaos said:

Although it would be nice to experience different maps, we are struggling to fill the current servers and maps without introducing new maps and different time period servers.

By the way a European map would have two main PvP areas, the English channel and the Straits of Gibraltar and I could imagine the Spanish would take Gibraltar at all costs.

 

But from their point a view a different map means a different game... IOW more money.  Doing the Med from southern Portugal to Malta would result in a map roughly one quarter the size of NA/Caribbean.  Extending it to Egypt doubles the length.   There may be advantages to a smaller map, either in scale or how dast you can get from point A to B.

 

WRT Gibraltar, clearly such an important fortress would have massive defenses.

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On 7/11/2017 at 11:45 AM, Bart Smith said:

U forgot about passage for Baltic to North Sea - Sund, Kattegat and two others. Bosfor passage as well.

No, I was thinking of that as a third product.  To add those waters to the Med. map would mean an overall map thats roughly 1.25 - 1.30% longer than NA/Caribbean and perhaps 150% taller.  A huge percentage would be land.  All of that could be problematic to game play.  Could be.  When you have a game map the size of a continent people don't get to all points.  As such it would require a much larger population of players to get to any similar ratio of play to area that see see in NA/Caribbean.

OTOH if you do the straights of Gibraltar to St. Petersburg the map would be slightly smaller on the vertical axis but the water area would be considerably reduced.  You wouldn't need as many players to make it all work as compared to including the Med.

Again, another game to sell.

As for all of us, such ideas might mean an even thinner population, or if that is resolved in a positive way, a lot of variety to chose from when setting out to sea.

 

At any rate, just ideas... food for thought.

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I'm not saying I wouldnt enjoy playing on such maps, but I think we all know that NA is going to be a relatively niche game which is never going to attract your average gamer. If you are not interested in the "age of sail" and historical type games then I think many will struggle to enjoy it. This leaves a relatively small pool of players and spreading them out over different maps would not be good.

Maybe if they had victory conditions on a map after which the map cycled to another region and so on it might work and help keep the game fresh and a higher playerbase on the map.

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29 minutes ago, Bart Smith said:

Remember that most of great naval battles were in Europe and nearby waters.

But by the time period in question piracy in Northern European waters was almost non existent.

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17 minutes ago, Archaos said:

But by the time period in question piracy in Northern European waters was almost non existent.

Game focus on naval battles not piracy. There was so many pirate games before. On europe were privateers more likely pirates.

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17 minutes ago, Bart Smith said:

Game focus on naval battles not piracy. There was so many pirate games before. On europe were privateers more likely pirates.

I know, but there is a large playerbase that like to play pirates. I may be wrong (I am not a history buff) but I am not sure that privateers were as active closer to the main colonial nations home ports, I thought they operated more in distant waters that the Nations could not effectively police with their own navies.

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On ‎08‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 7:48 AM, Archaos said:

I could imagine the Spanish would take Gibraltar at all costs.

Except the politicians, the Spanish do not want that dirty rock, flat of monkeys and their droppings :D:D

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On 7/13/2017 at 2:06 AM, Archaos said:

I know, but there is a large playerbase that like to play pirates. I may be wrong (I am not a history buff) but I am not sure that privateers were as active closer to the main colonial nations home ports, I thought they operated more in distant waters that the Nations could not effectively police with their own navies.

In the western Med. French and Spanish privateers were common but their charter was not to take anything that sails but to take the enemy shipping, whomever that was at the time. True pirates might have been found in North African ports but I cannot say for sure.

What you do get is a whole lot of neutral nations doing business with points east of Italy (all safe ports of call) who would also dip into French and Spanish ports for grab a good cargo which made them open to capture by the British navy as they now carried the enemy's goods. This could be represented in-game a number of ways: First, the use of Contraband as the name of the cargo is perfect but it might be more interesting for AI ships to conceal that, revealing thee facts of the matter only on an inspection function.  IOW you have to get close enough to come aboard to find out if there is contraband present.  Here's the hook: Obviously ships that are not carrying contraband will stop for inspection and those that are will flee if there is a reasonable chance they can run away.  In between those two is the case of the contraband carrying ship that heaves to for inspection hoping you won't actually bother to look.  The Dev's can program these different behaviors.

A second case is armed convoys, which apparently was fairly common. You engage the AI fleet and fight it out with the combat vessel(s) therein while the traders all flee.  Win the fight, go chase down as many traders as possible,

Both of these could be added to NA/Caribbean but I'd rather see the DEV's finish Legends, fix NA/Caribbean as a sailing simulator w/ crafting and trade before moving on to new geographies and features.

Edited by Genma Saotome

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I like the idea as I would like a Naval Action - Nothern Sea. Maybe it would be possible to make it as a DLC in the way they organised traveling from map to map in Total War-Empire. You reach the end of the map you can switch. But as much I love this idea I think it's just realistic if the current population is rising. So maybe when the game is introduced and released for the bright map. To bring it now in Early Access won't work because being a tester is hard enough with one map (as it is being a Dev). But hey, maybe Mediterranean will come in future days ...

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Here we got discussion and some of us made even projects of maps etc: 

Assuming I WOULD LOVE TO SEE EUROPE MAP IN THE FUTURE IN NAVAL ACTION GAME. :D

Edited by Bart Smith

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Bart, all of Europe is just too big.  Either players will cluster in one area and forgo all the others (which raises all sorts of doubts about the wisdom one one map) or the grind to sail from one place to another will make the b!tchin 'n moaning over NA grinding sound like happy voices at a kids birthday party.  Who will sail from the  Black sea to Riga??  If the answer is hardly anyone then why6 do that map?

IMO Big != better.  Number of players / surface area counts for more.

 

If the DEV's could do games for (1) Med, (2) Atlantic Coast, and (3) Baltic and be successful with that (doubtful, but for discussion sake lets say yes), then (4) joining all of them together might make sense.  Buy starting with (4) and hoping the player count will be huge is a leap of faith I just don't have.

Edited by Genma Saotome
spelling.
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11 hours ago, Genma Saotome said:

Bart, all of Europe is just too big.  Either players will cluster in one area and forgo all the others (which raises all sorts of doubts about the wisdom one one map) or the grind to sail from one place to another will make the b!tchin 'n moaning over NA grinding sound like happy voices at a kids birthday party.  Who will sail from the  Black sea to Riga??  If the answer is hardly anyone then why6 do that map?

IMO Big != better.  Number of players / surface area counts for more.

 

If the DEV's could do games for (1) Med, (2) Atlantic Coast, and (3) Baltic and be successful with that (doubtful, but for discussion sake lets say yes), then (4) joining all of them together might make sense.  Buy starting with (4) and hoping the player count will be huge is a leap of faith I just don't have.

Similar size than whole Caribbean. Sailing from Black Sea to Norway or Baltic can be profitable as well:P

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7 hours ago, Bart Smith said:

Similar size than whole Caribbean.

No, it is not. 

  • Caribbean: 28d Latitude
  • Mediterranean: 13d latitude
  • All of Europe: 42d Latitude

Longitude is harder to compare because it's width shrinks as you travel north.  I used Google maps "What is here" function to "measure" the width of the current Naval Action map as taken at the same latitude as the Mediterranean.  I dunno if that will result in an apples to apples comparison, but the data provided was:

  • Caribbean: 37d Longitude
  • Mediterranean / All of Europe: 51d Longitude

On the BIG assumption those longitude values are correct, that means a Mediterranean / Black Sea only Map is slightly less than half as tall as the current Naval Action map and 38% wider. More if you go further west than the southern tip of Portugal, less if  you exclude the Black Sea.

 

OTOH, a map of all of Europe is 82% taller than the current Naval Action map and 38% wider.  With the continental land mass in the center you have, in essence, a great big C shaped body of water so there is no "as the crow flies" distance when you are north or east of Dover and south and east of Gibraltar when sailing between those points.

Another problem with such a big map as All of Europe is the fact they have to make the map flat whereas the world is not.  What that means is the actual distance traveled going east/west will be distorted depending on how far north you are.  Even using a Transverse Mercator projection (IIRC this lets you assume the equator is in the middle of your map) you'll still have the distortion in Longitude that comes with 21d of Latitude off that centerline (meaning plus and minus).  The current Naval Action map (assuming it uses the Transverse Mercator projection) would be 14d, plus and minus.  If the DEV's didn't use that method of projection, the distortion for all of Europe is the full difference of 42d of latitude.  That's a lot!

 

Edited by Genma Saotome

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There could be different regions: eg.:

Venice-Sewastopol-Antalya-Malta

Alexandria-Tripolis-Sicilia-Greece

Casablanca-Tripolis-Iberia-Monaco

Best-Aberdeen-Göteborg-Danzig

London-Oslo-St. Peterburg-Riga

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Sorry but I don't see the point in this... as a different game? Just why? If we ever get enough players in NA, they could consider selling this as DLC - possibility to sail to europe / mediterranean sea with huge trade profits for crossing the atlantic ocean etc. .... then again I would have preferred it the other way around - europe with greenzones / uncapturable home country capital and full conquest on carribean, mediterranean etc. ... we can all dream a bit, right?

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I would love DLCs that would eventually encompass the whole world. Get more people from Europe, the Americas and Asia into the game. I also think there would be players in the Middle East, South Africa and India that would like the game. Once the game if released it should just be a matter of doing the maps and getting perhaps the right 3 servers to cover the Americas, Europe and Asia. HAHAHAH, you can tell I'm not a game maker. 

Great day and fair sailing.   

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And be able to play as Portugal? hello kitty yes! I still don't know why Portugal isn't in this game already, there is a lot of wars that involved Portugal in it. I would definetly love to sail under the Royal Portuguese flag, all the way. 

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On 29/03/2018 at 2:13 AM, Corsario Templario said:

And be able to play as Portugal? hello kitty yes! I still don't know why Portugal isn't in this game already, there is a lot of wars that involved Portugal in it. I would definetly love to sail under the Royal Portuguese flag, all the way. 

 Your avatar is Vasco da Gama, you are portuguese?

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