Reporting Myself

[Gaizka]

EU PVP Server

My main Character Gaizka (Spanish)

My alter Asuranceturix (French)

The 2nd of June Admin stated clearly in the forums that it is acceptable to ask for the help of characters from other nations to flip a port belonging to your nation.

From that day me and some friends have dedicated long hours to rise the lvl of some french alters. At this point only 1 clan in the Spanish faction has most of the conquest marks, and the plan was to allow other clans to get some marks too. (You need marks to have good ships to enter battles to earn more marks. If you dont have the marks, you are out of the wheel)

We started fliping an Spanish port (Veracruz) when a player from the spanish faction posted this. (One of the leaders of the big clan who has most of the marks)

http://imgur.com/gallery/uvoAU

There Ink says clearly that fliping the port with an alter is not legal. We stopped fliping the port at once. But after long hours of work and being convinced during weeks that what we were doing was legal, we fell quite frustrated about it.

How is it possible that asking someone else to do it is ok, but doing it yourself is Ilegal?

Ban me for traying this if you have to but please explain us (my clan, 3 other spanish clans that were helping to do this and myshelf) how is it possible that doing this is ilegal while doing it with other french character that is not saying openly he is an alter, is Legal.

Believe me many people had to work long hours to do this and if it is an exploit it is the hardest way of exploiting a game I have ever seen.

At the moment VeraCruz is at 60% after 6 hours fliping it non stop, but we wont keep fliping it untill this situation is clarified.

Best regards.

 

 

 

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

What's good for the goose.. is not good for the gander.

Don't you know? CM's are only for the Leet. And even if you're in a clan... you may not be Leet enough for PBs to get your hands on CM's. 

But you're only good enough to screen for the Leets.

How do you Leets call the non-PB screen groups? Oh yeah... scrubs.

[Guest]

This is an alt abuse yes - but you could (and should) try to reach out to other countries clans for help flipping the port. There's allways another clan in another nation that's dissatisfied with things - get them to flip a port for you and you can repay the service by doing it the other way around. With warsuplies it goes faster (expensive but who won't save a few hours of grinding in exchange for some hours spent on real gameplay.. or Wimbledon).

[Skully]

I applaud Gaizka for exposing this issue and taking this risk.

May I suggest we take this under discussion at http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/21578-using-an-alt-to-aid-the-enemy-for-conquest-marks/ ?

 

[EL GRAN DUQUE DE ALBA]

this mecanic produces one problem and y try to splain with a example: (sorry for my english XD) 

if in my house play my brother and me,  and one friend play in the house behind off my house,

im play in spanish faction and my brother and my friend play in swedish faction

if my friend try to help me to flip one port, its legal

if my brother try to help me to flip one port,  ist ilegal?  my brother and me use the same router,  my account or my brother`s account can considerated alter account and banned? 

my brothers or me cant  go to the same portbattle? or i cant fight vs my brother?  I think my brother and i have the same right as the others to enjoy the game and to help to flips the ports

[Gaizka]

Just to clarify some more stuff:

1.- We stopped flipping the port at 66% hostility and it stopped there untill now. We stopped as soon as we saw Ink´s post saying it was ilegal.

2.- We cant underestand how can it be ilegal if there is no way to hunt the cheater. Port flipping by other nation is ok, but port flipping by alters is not. Whats the plan to catch the alters?. I mean, the only reason why everybody knows there are alters is because we said so. I used my daughter steam account (she is 8 and loves playing wakfu with me  ) Diferent steam account and different e-mail.

We could have said it was being done in exchange for white oak and that would have been it.

If it is ilegal we wont do it, but with time we will be the little few.

3.- It took us a month and 83 hours (each of us) of our RL time, plus a week to organize it among the small clans, plus the clan efford to build the 100 war supplies. If it is an exploit it is the hardest one I have ever seen.

4.- The 66% hostility rising was obtained by legal means. Not a single pvp hostility point was obtained. Only IA.

5.- I paid to play a french player and according to Admin, french players are allowed to flip friendly Spanish ports. Still cant see how can this be ilegal. If it is, friendly port flipping should be ilegal too.

6.- All this was done to give the smaller clans a chance. There were 4 clans involved and all of them were going to have conquest marks. It was the only way to start having marks to start participating in Battle ports.

7.- At least I hope all this helps improve the game, because some mechanics have to change.

Best regards

[zaba]

It seems the devs decision:

They assume that the game it has become a total faliure, with tons of bad reviews on steam from people who has thousands of hours expended in the game and no plan to repair all the broken mechanics. They are afraid of that huge amount of bad revisions is going to sink his sales and the solution is... hello kitty this ungrateful people, we are  going to try with a distinct game and improve the NA mechanics to sell alt accounts, becouse we will not fool anyone new, so let´s try to get the money of all the fools we've ever caught, becouse there are some foolish enough to pay several times for something that does not work, with the promise that this is the solution.

Alts are cancer in MMO and becouse of that steam disapprove it. Alts will kill what little remains of naval action.

 

R.I.P.

 

[Captain Lust]

2 hours ago, zaba said:

It seems the devs decision:

They assume that the game it has become a total faliure, with tons of bad reviews on steam from people who has thousands of hours expended in the game and no plan to repair all the broken mechanics. They are afraid of that huge amount of bad revisions is going to sink his sales and the solution is... hello kitty this ungrateful people, we are  going to try with a distinct game and improve the NA mechanics to sell alt accounts, becouse we will not fool anyone new, so let´s try to get the money of all the fools we've ever caught, becouse there are some foolish enough to pay several times for something that does not work, with the promise that this is the solution.

Alts are cancer in MMO and becouse of that steam disapprove it. Alts will kill what little remains of naval action.

 

R.I.P.

... when you have mechanics like the CM mark system added, it's hard to find another reason than this for it...

[Anolytic]

This seems silly if the rule is applied so strictly and generally. As long as you use your alt as if it was any normal player and don't ever sink your own alt in a fake PvP battle there should be no problem.

I frequently use my own (same-nation-)alt as escort while grinding hostility. Sometimes even getting more hostility points on my alt than on my main account. By this strict interpretation of the rules that would be illegal. If my alt has an outpost where we are operating and my main doesn't I may use my alt for the grinding and the port battle instead of moving my main. I am then playing with it is exactly as if it was my main and not doing anything abnormal or tricky. I don't why this should be illegal.

When your alt is in another nation things become a bit more complicated and grey areas may appear. But as long as your alt never encounter your main or any of your friends' main characters I'm not convinced it should be illegal. With the system we had where CMs were acquired directly from port battles I could see the problem even in that, but with the pension system I don't think there should be a problem.

Edited July 8, 2017 by Anolytic

[HachiRoku]

so bill fockn kerman cant grind hostility in theory? The perks ruined bills life anyway :((( 

[Gaizka]

18 hours ago, Gaizka said:

 

Alts are usually hated by many players because sometimes they do stuff that a normal player from that nation wouldnt do. (such as enter port battles just to take an spot). I hate that kind of behavor as much as everyone else.

But if an alter is doing stuff that has been declared legal (such as fliping friendly ports) how can something legal become ilegal just because of the person who is doing it? 

Hostility still coming down after every server update and we are still waiting from an answer from the devs.

[Zoky]

I my opinion you did nothing wrong and should be allowed to continue

Edited July 10, 2017 by Zoky

[Rouleur]

I don't think alts should be used to flip ports, however, this just exposes the underlying problem - the current conquest mark system.

If you can't get them your game experience is compromised by game design. Some of the consequential impacts have also been perverse and the scramble for port battle spots unedifying. You should not have to attend a port battle or join a clan to be able to experience all the ships the game has to offer, although I would suggest clan membership adds a dimension to game play that many of us really enjoy.

Edited July 10, 2017 by Rouleur

[Pablo Frias]

3 hours ago, rediii said:

@EL LOCO

@Pablo Frias

This is the problem of the spanish in my oppinion. Nothing else.

 

Also the mechanic around CM sucks. Portflipping to generate CM gain for players which partly go inactive and then do it again is bad.

Just a question, why am I the problem of the spanish? lol

[Pablo Frias]

1 minute ago, rediii said:

Lol not you are.  

I just posted you so you get a notification.

I don´t get you lol

[Pablo Frias]

Just now, rediii said:

The text I quoted.

That's a problem in my oppinion since you atm say you dont have enough players inside the nation. Trick is the players need portbattleships and therefore CM which they seem to not have.

The problems aren´t the conquest marks, the problem is the lack of interest in RvR from those people asking for conquest mark. They will only go to a PB if it´s near Habana or the Gulf, they don´t care about Santiago, Cartagena.... And that´s our problem, only 2 clans are into RvR, VLTRA and PLVS, and it´s really difficult to gather 25 people btween these 2 clans in this moment.

[Pablo Frias]

Just now, rediii said:

So they have conquest marks from a recent protbattle?

Some of them yes

[Ink]

On 21.10.2016 at 10:46 PM, admin said:

Clarification. By abuse we mean directly generating hostility for the enemy by means of sinking or surrendering. 

Other methods of abuse could also happen and will be reviewed separately

Unless you do not intentionally sink your alts or vice versa (direct alt abuse) - you can generate hostility on your alts if you do it like other players - sinking NPC or other players. Intentional abuse like sinking a lot of times your own alt or intentional sinking to your friends/clan or tagging alt to hide is forbidden.