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Liq

Logoff after Battle

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Liq    3,260

*omg another unneceessary thread about this*.. jajaja.

Alright, there have been made several posts about this. But I still think the way it currently works is BROKEN. Broken AF.

What is broken
Player A tags Player B. They have a battle and fight. However player B has no intention of fighting because he knows he can call for mates to set up around the battle location, abusing the OW speed buff, so player A would be trapped.

Omg why did you hunt in enemy waters? You deserve to get killed

I have spent 3920 hours in this game. Most of which looking for pvp. My experience has shown, if you sail around blindly in the ocean looking for someone to fight.. Yeah right, good luck. It can already be hard to find someone in enemy waters. The point is, if you finally get to fight someone, the probability of all the 'rats' coming out of their holes is incredibly high, and they will then profit of the huge OW speed compression to set up a trap.

Important: I am NOT saying everything should be fair. But it should be hardcore, as it is advertised as such on steam.

Quote

Naval Action is a hardcore, realistic, and beautifully detailed naval combat sandbox [...]


So if you'd get ganked 5v1, so be it, you loose your stuff, as it should be if it's realistic / hardcore. No need to give anyone an arcadey second chance to take revenge.

So if you think, profiting from an OW speed boost to set up a trap is either hardcore or realistic... I can't help you, My definition of those two words is that in real life, a ship after combat would leave to port, and not have to deal with Fallout Constitutiuons, being told where to go through teamspeak. And that you need to be careful of where to sail in what ship rather than using the current brolen game mechanic.

On December 29th the USS Constitution under the command of Captain Bainbridge was off the coast of San Salvadore.  Bainbridge spotted a British ship closer to shore.  The ship was the 38 gun HMS Java commanded by Captain Henry Labert.  The Java was quicker then the Constitution while the 44 gun Constitution out gunned the Java. 
The Java was towing an American Merchant ship that it had captured.  When it spotted the Constitution it sent its captured ship into San Salvador Harbor and raced to face the Constitution.  At 2PM the two ships were within cannon range.  The two sides faced each other with broadsides While the Java initially out maneuvered the Constitution, the latters larger number of guns and the greater accuracy of its gunnery took a steady toll on the Java.   By 3PM Captain Lambert had concluded that his only hope was to board the Constitution.  That attempt failed when an accurate broadside struck his ship by the constitution that brought down his Top Mast and foremast.  By 4:20 the Java’s main mask fell.  An hour later when the Constitution was nearing for another run on the stricken ship the Java struck her colors and surrendered.

After this engagement, do you think 1) the connie sailed back to port and refilled its supplies or 2) had to deal with inteleporting ships being called through teamspeak?

So basically, right now you're massively discouraging players to actively seek for pvp, as they will be trapped, but rather wait in their greenzone for someone 'stupid' enough to deliver PvP. How dare anyone deliver pvp.

Either increase the current invisibility timer and give players leaving a battle a speedboost of 150% for a certain amount of time or implement a logout feature. Because as it is right now, PvP is suicide :)

Sidenote:
Slowclap @Kaempfer86 and @VeeForce for leaving a 1v2 (being the two) to then absolutely be positive to Zerg Rush me in a 10v1.

 

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Edited by Liquicity

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Bearwall    838

If we disregard the pictures of basically a zerg rush (which is unecessary for the topic but nice to see the dishonourable *EDITED* and their mates) I am completely in agreement but I would very much prefer a solution that doesn't bring back the magic of BS cloaking devices. The suggestion to increase invisibility timers and give an OW speed boost of 150% would in my pov be preferable of all the unrealistic solutions.

Edited by BungeeLemming

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We had just tested a good solution at all these problems and it worked well. 

Double circle tag and exit to friendly port.

Sincerely, the game is currently broken and I do not understand why we've come back to old mechanics that didn't work. I don't know sincerely what to say.

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Yngvarr    110
1 hour ago, Liquicity said:

But it should be hardcore, as it is advertised as such on steam.

if you really want it to be hardcore, full every time you sink...

I wonder how long it would take for the whining to begin.

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Fellvred    259

The current open world mechanics can work but we're missing a large chunk of content to help it out. Missions/raids/events etc which will hopefully stop 90% of players staying around their capitals.

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The Red Duke    6,298
2 minutes ago, Aegir said:

Who the hell sinks a Santa Cecilia :(

All of them belong to the bottom. They are the spawn of evil. -_-

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Willis PVP2    214

I think 2-minute join timers and a modified end battle screen (that you can stay in for up to 15 minutes, log off in, or choose to exit to friendly port [only within the first 5 minutes, after that you have to exit to OW]), combined with the current tagging mechanics would work quite well.

But then again, I'm from PvP2 (Global) so....yah. But, I do a lot of solo or small group hunting, but also hunting in large groups (read that as gank-groups).

What bothers me the most is what is shown in the thread here: I go hunting for PvP, find myself a nice target, with no other players on the horizon, I know its just going to be us (thanks to 3 minute join timers, although I'd like to see those go down to 2 minute timers). We have our battle, I win and exit battle. Ten guys are waiting, spread out in a net to gank me and I've only got 30 seconds of invisibility to attempt an escape.

How did they get there so fast? Teleporting (do not misinterpret me, ALL teleporting is good for PvP in my opinion) and fast OW travel time allowed them to get there to gank, when the fact is, most of them were probably out trading or doing missions (or whatever) when their buddy announced me tagging him and they had plenty of time to set up a gank.

Lets return to the example: I won the first battle, escaped and now face a gank-fleet spread out in a net designed to catch me. I run from their gank-net under the invisibility timer and get myself into the best position I can to make an escape; I get tagged. I manage to escape the ensuing battle, but half of their force stayed out and formed another gank-net. The cycle repeats till they get me or I somehow manage to get away or lead them into a friendly gank fleet. 


My opinion is this: if you can't keep me in battle, why should you keep getting the opportunity to keep tagging me into combat? It is a boring waste of time if I can just keep outrunning you in battle, but you can keep up with me in OW (meaning "endless" tagging and annoying escapes and re-escapes). If I outrun you in battle, I'm going to exit to friendly port (or just log off) if you are going to continue trying to grief-tag me till your buddies show up to gank.

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Revenge ganks are a game-wide issue, not just a "PvP-EU Master Race" problem.  So regardless of that ignorance, I do agree that a balanced way to reduce the issue should be found. I like the suggestion of longer invisibility timers to allow the victors of a fight a better opportunity to foil attempts at revenge ganking. 

 

 

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Liq    3,260
1 hour ago, Rhodry Heidenrich said:

Revenge ganks are a game-wide issue, not just a "PvP-EU Master Race" problem.  So regardless of that ignorance, I do agree that a balanced way to reduce the issue should be found. I like the suggestion of longer invisibility timers to allow the victors of a fight a better opportunity to foil attempts at revenge ganking. 

 

 

Sorry bud, maybe I was a bit too ignorant indeed. It's just that this issue has been brought up and discussed several times before and some people, mostly from the global server, were denying the existence of the problem.

If this problem is not going to be dealt with, I dont see any reason for PvP oriented players to even try and get good pvp. Naval Action Legends is our only last hope.

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Captain Lust    482
29 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

If this problem is not going to be dealt with, I dont see any reason for PvP oriented players to even try and get good pvp. Naval Action Legends is our only last hope.

So true... endless sail repairs is another annoying mechanic ( nerfing chain just would have been the better solution ) but thats another story...

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kaayo    6

<_< my question is why become only a few of players this ships,bring the blueprint in the game than crying not so many players when this ship is lost.

:ph34r: i will sunk all this ships:angry:

Edited by kaayo

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Liq    3,260
3 minutes ago, kaayo said:

<_< my question is why become only a few of players this ships,bring the blueprint in the game than crying not so many players when this ship is lost.

:ph34r: i will sunk all this ships:angry:

It's not about the ship but the crappy game mechanic

Id rather use and sink my ship than let it rot in port for weeks just so I can say Ive got a cecilia

you could get a cecilia for participating in the lgv challenge. Hope more of those sort of events are coming.

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kaayo    6

-_-confirmd, the game mechanic is not the best,i dont understand why they maked 1 min invisble to 30 sek, i think it is better to make 2 min invisble and it is more realistic, after wipe we have not one good port battle because the players have to much fear to lost the ships and this crappy conquest marks are the kill for this game.

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TommyShelby    3,165
6 hours ago, Liquicity said:

Id rather use and sink my ship than let it rot in port for weeks just so I can say Ive got a cecilia

This is what makes liq and I sò different lol.

I'd rather let my cecilie rot in port for the time being just so I can say I have one :P

If they end up fixing this bs "home defense fleet" mechanics mayb, just maybe, I will bring her out of port.

Untill then i will play other games.. :(

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Peter Goldman    1,272
1 hour ago, TommyShelby said:

This is what makes liq and I sò different lol.

I'd rather let my cecilie rot in port for the time being just so I can say I have one :P

If they end up fixing this bs "home defense fleet" mechanics mayb, just maybe, I will bring her out of port.

Untill then i will play other games.. :(

I'm with Liquicity.

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EliteDelta    313

I agree with Liquicity. If we could just get the invisibility bumped to 1 min or maybe 1 min 30 sec (and of course make sure you can't attack someone for even longer so the invisibility can't be abused, maybe 2 min), then I think this problem would be solved. 

The rest is just an observation of the situation from my point of view, feel free to skip if you want.

Lately I have noticed there are mostly three choices when looking for OW PVP.

1) Hunt a populated area, such as near a capital. This gives me a high chance to find targets, but also the very real possibility that it will take 1-3 hours or more to escape revenge fleets, unless I get myself sunk.

2) Hunt open waters or less populated enemy areas. However this could lead to hours and hours of searching without finding a single target.

3) Hunt in large packs. Sadly this can easily turn into ganking, which I don't enjoy. Also there is still a high chance that a larger revenge fleet will show up and trap you all.

Dont get me wrong, I'm not afraid of getting sunk or taking risks. I've been taking my Santa Cecilia to Cuba almost every day since I got her. I have also found a decent amount of fights. However I have had to spend the vast majority of my in-battle time escaping revenge fleets and getting tagged again and again, usually 4-5 times before I can escape, I get sunk, or they just give up.

PLEASE SLIGHTLY INCREASE THE INVISIBILITY! 

No offense to you developers, but please don't go crazy and give us 5 minutes invisibility. Just a small change is needed.

Thanks.

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rediii    3,063

increasing the invisibility timer doesn't realy change the problem. If ships are known you will know where they will sail after a battle

implement that you go full speed in every direction while invisible. That should solve a lot.

 

Log off... yea maybe we should bring that back. Only possible within 15 min after the battle is over

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Jœrnson    379
5 minutes ago, rediii said:

Log off... yea maybe we should bring that back. Only possible within 15 min after the battle is over

+1

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Ok, first of all +1 about what Liqui said in his posts: I agree 100% with him. Then...I'd like to highlight some things. 1) considering current population and OW dimensions, Pvpers are almost forced to hunt around enemy capitals. 2) the 3 minutes joining timers system and the fact that players are forced into OW after a battle give an undeserved and redundant advantage to revenge fleets. If you decide to attack into enemy capitals waters, you surely are likely to get more targets but at the same time you are probably taking into account that you will find a stronger hostility, multiple enemies and more risk to face. After a battle and before exiting to OW, you can't know if enemies are awaiting for you, how many of them, what ships, wind direction and (last but not the least), you are probably damaged and tired after a long fighting. Outside, people awaiting for you has all the infos needed (battle approximate location, wind direction) and probably numerical advantage. Now we have just a ridicolous 30 second invisibility timer, a 3 minutes timer to enter a battle and forced exit to OW after 15 minutes from battle ending...my question is: why devs have implemented a system that gives so many extra advantage to people sailing in their home waters? Why one of the few options remained to do PVP (hunting into enemy waters), should be so penalized by rules of engagement? If we really want to preserve PVP, we need to implement new rules of engagement in order to balance between attackers and defenders. Longer invisibility timers, shorter joining timers (2 minutes for example), chance to log off after a battle...choose your favourite answer, but something has to be made as soon as possible!

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victor    690

well, in my experience, revenge gank happens mostly if you attack people around enemy capitals or in regions full of enemies docked in nearby ports.

So basically, it's the natural risk a hunter has to face choosing to attack in very populated areas: more prays to attack but more risk of revenge.

Edited by victor

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Liq    3,260
23 minutes ago, victor said:

well, in my experience, revenge gank happens mostly if you attack people around enemy capitals or in regions full of enemies docked in nearby ports.

So basically, it's the natural risk a hunter has to face choosing to attack in very populated areas: more prays to attack but more risk of revenge.

Battle took place at Saint John's / English Harbor.

Sailing in the middle of the ocean with no islands in sight, the probability of meeting anyone is next to non existant.

If this game's supposed to be realistic / hardcore, why don't just grant captains an escape, if they clearly prooved they managed to escape in the first instance? Realistic = Ressembling reality, and as in reality you wouldnt have to deal with in-teleporting ships, it's clearly a bad game mechanic.

But I get it. Most people don't want this game to be a pvp game anymore, but rather a port-flipping / pve game where actual fights dont actually happen, just so players can get a boner looking at their stuff aquired through pve / daily conquest marks income.

We had like what, two actual port battles since the wipe? One of which I was in, sant iago
The rest was all lame agreements with no fights happening. great gameplay, hellokitty online is it you?

Edit:
Also this: "Natural risk of a hunter"... I fail to understand how revenge fleets are natural?
I mean sure, if they had gotten me regularly in the OW, without the need of camping a battle position, good on them, wouldn't be complaining about that. But setting up a trap after help being called in nation chat, is not natural at all. It's arcadey.

Edited by Liquicity

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rediii    3,063
3 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

We had like what, two actual port battles since the wipe? One of which I was in, sant iago
The rest was all lame agreements with no fights happening. great gameplay, hellokitty online is it you?

People do everything atm to avoid portbattles.

Agreement on Cartagena/Salamanca

The Cap Francais incident

Various battles which brits could have defended against pirates

French hiding action even though they have a aga fleet

I hope that list will stop very soon.

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The Red Duke    6,298
4 hours ago, rediii said:

Log off... yea maybe we should bring that back. Only possible within 15 min after the battle is over

You know those sci-fi movies where the entire armada comes out of the warp near Earth or other important place ?

That is what will happen with that loophole and we seen it before. Remember that mechanics are blind. They work equal for ALL players in ALL situations. There's no distinction between a 1v1 or a 25v25.

 

 

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