[PvP Global] Political Situation and Port Battles

[Sir Texas Sir]

2 minutes ago, Bach said:

Yarrrr!   Two hooks up?

Heard Ya'll where having fun out side along with some pirates that came along late to PvP out side.  Hope ya'll had a good one.

[Christendom]

My perspective.  Not a very good showing on our part.  

Ultimately the fight was lost about 15mins in when we had a couple players too far out to the right and just inexplicably sail into the pirate fleet.  I should of had us turn into and help, but hindsight of course.  @Coraline Vodka did a good breakdown with images here. https://imgur.com/a/nNGnG  once those 2 players were lost right off the bat the brawl was over.

Props to the pirates for the smashing in the battle.  The french player (i hope) they used to hide in battle before the power however......I guess that's par for the course.

Highlight of the battle was bailing a Brit captain stuck in irons and about to get stern raked at 42:22 by using the ole ramming maneuver.  

Edited July 16, 2017 by Christendom

[Jeheil]

Yuppers well played Pirates, cohesion won the day, see ya next time.

[Souvlaki]

So am I to understand that hiding for one hour in a battle to avoid any screening force is 'par for the course' and not cheating or exploiting the game mechanics? I mean, is that all it takes, some nerds with so much time on their hands they can circumvent how the game is intended to be played because they must win by any means, even if it means cheating? And the Devs are OK with this?

If so, I'm ready to uninstall and stop wasting my time. Luckily I'm fairly new to the game, so no big loss. I'll do a nice little write-up on Steam about it and be done.

[Duncan McFail]

2 minutes ago, Souvlaki said:

So am I to understand that hiding for one hour in a battle to avoid any screening force is 'par for the course' and not cheating or exploiting the game mechanics? I mean, is that all it takes, some nerds with so much time on their hands they can circumvent how the game is intended to be played because they must win by any means, even if it means cheating? And the Devs are OK with this?

If so, I'm ready to uninstall and stop wasting my time. Luckily I'm fairly new to the game, so no big loss. I'll do a nice little write-up on Steam about it and be done.

I'm sorry. Do you think the game mechanics of screening are anything more than griefing. Meaning the biggest nation can always defend their ports because they have the numbers to keep out anyone who trys to take their ports. That system is bs to me. On global their would be no nation that could take a brit port unless all the nations combined to stop them. I'd rather see that decision made by who has more skill and tactics in the port battle rather than who can keep the enemy from getting to the port battle.

[Souvlaki]

9 minutes ago, Duncan McFail said:

I'm sorry. Do you think the game mechanics of screening are anything more than griefing. Meaning the biggest nation can always defend their ports because they have the numbers to keep out anyone who trys to take their ports. That system is bs to me. On global their would be no nation that could take a brit port unless all the nations combined to stop them. I'd rather see that decision made by who has more skill and tactics in the port battle rather than who can keep the enemy from getting to the port battle.

No I don't think having naval battles in the open world is griefing.

If I understand you correctly, what you're saying is the British population is too big, thus it's ok to cheat. Do I have the correct? I seem to remember participating in a port battle vs the pirates a few weeks ago where they clearly outnumbered my team and I didn't see them withdrawing any ships so it could be decided by skill.

 

[TBD]

GB do not battle during screening, they grief. This is the proof. Outlaw battle is open for all to join for the whole duration. How many screeners joined and kept Pirate fleet tagged? Exactly, zero, nada, zilch. Tagging over and over again without battling is griefing. Tagging and fighting is screening. Game is broken right now, so griefing is what GB calls screening.

[Skully]

1 hour ago, Duncan McFail said:

I'd rather see that decision made by who has more skill and tactics in the port battle rather than who can keep the enemy from getting to the port battle.

The skill of being able to sail in a PB fleet or hiding one?

I fully agree with you that hiding is the easier one.

I recall a failed screening attempt when we took PaP. Maybe you have been focusing the wrong skills.

Any lobby or free-pass mechanic will not save you against numbers. Why not try true naval tactics against superior numbers?

PS. Don't feed the zerg by making the strategical error of hitting US.

[TBD]

What skills would that be exactly? The ones that available in game please, save the Naval Academy stuff for real world, game skill only for the group of 30-35 to overcome the group of 70-75. I am all ears.

[greybuscat]

25 minutes ago, Comrade I Stalin said:

GB do not battle during screening, they grief. This is the proof. Outlaw battle is open for all to join for the whole duration. How many screeners joined and kept Pirate fleet tagged? Exactly, zero, nada, zilch. Tagging over and over again without battling is griefing. Tagging and fighting is screening. Game is broken right now, so griefing is what GB calls screening.

The only screening fleets I've ever been a part of actually fought the ships we tagged, and in most cases, stuck around to protect the battle fleet after the PB is over. I've even lost a ship or two doing this. I can't speak for what happened in Port Au Prince, but that's the only kind of screening fleet I'm familiar with.

Perhaps you have some evidence of contrary behavior for me to consider.

Regardless, kiting and harassing is a thing real navies did. But I'm sure one of the greatest naval achievements in human history was just griefing, right? Those Ruskies should have just fought fairly against the Ottomans, and lost like real men!

Does anyone have a historical example of pirates attacking other pirates, to avoid the Royal Navy?

Edited July 16, 2017 by greybuscat
embellishment

[TBD]

Do you a have a historical example of 4-5 light frigates  keeping a fleet of line ships form entering a battle? Or a Ship of the line battle when frigate won? In Naval Action, any competent captain of a light frigate can decimate a first rate. Its a game, get over it. Spare the Naval Academy stuff. Game availible mechanics only.

Edited July 16, 2017 by Comrade I Stalin

[Skully]

51 minutes ago, Comrade I Stalin said:

Do you a have a historical example of 4-5 light frigates  keeping a fleet of line ships form entering a battle? Or a Ship of the line battle when frigate won? In Naval Action, any competent captain of a light frigate can decimate a first rate. Its a game, get over it. Spare the Naval Academy stuff. Game availible mechanics only.

The battle would occur between the light frigates and the fleet, annihilating the frigates and be declared a victory.

But oh no, PBs are a holy grail which should be obtainable against any odds through invulnerability.

You know the opposition is going to over-commit. Make use of that knowledge and fight accordingly.

[TBD]

Pirates did adjust their tactics, you did not, you still playing pre wipe game. Pirates won due to unpreparedeness of screening fleet, you expected same old kite game, instead you had a battle you could have joined. You had a GB basic cutter pinpointing a position of the fight. No british players elected to join the fight. Lack of planing? Cowardice? Who knows. In the end a rag tag smaller force won. Do beter next time.

GB had superior numbers of equal ships  in PB. GB had fort protection. And folded, acording to your own fleet leader after first two ships were sunk it was over. At that point fleets were equal and GB could have pressed the wind advantage, but instead gave up.  Smaller force won. Watch the video.

See the pattern yet?

There was nothing new in Pirate tactics. It was used before time and time again by national fleet defensive tags of npc fleets, and pirates on PVP EU. BLACK executed it well, it  is no small deal btw, takes time and practice. You know the whole planing ahead, evading enemy, timing it perfectly thing,  otherwise known as tactics and strategy.

Ends justifies the means. They won, you lost. Get over it. Grind it up and try again if you dare.

Edited July 16, 2017 by Comrade I Stalin

[Teutonic]

ah, the Brits got Cordova'd again - good luck being lead by him.

[Rhodry Heidenrich]

I'm being reminded, again, of why I don't do Port Battles anymore. There's still too many problems with how they're initiated, and the'res also too much god damn meta gaming going on-- both offensively and defensively. Both sides are flinging mud at each other regarding who's worse about using bad game mechanics to game the game. 

 

[BallsOfSteel]

19 hours ago, Comrade I Stalin said:

GB do not battle during screening, they grief. This is the proof. Outlaw battle is open for all to join for the whole duration. How many screeners joined and kept Pirate fleet tagged? Exactly, zero, nada, zilch. Tagging over and over again without battling is griefing. Tagging and fighting is screening. Game is broken right now, so griefing is what GB calls screening.

Tell that to Budgie Smuggler , toss myself and two others came in as soon as we had the opportunity

 

[Bach]

It is the nature of large teams with no clear leader to in fight following an unexpected loss  

Battle was 25v23 and each side was almost all Aggys. So the actual battle was pretty fair. What Britains are complaining about is not being able to employ their population advantage to create an unfair PB. It was a fair PB. Get over it. 

Next time Brit just needs to put its screeners on site >1hr to the PB and they can keep their population advantage in play. This time GB just got outplayed, this time, because the expected something that didn't happen and were not prepared for it. 

[Rick Astley]

20 hours ago, Comrade I Stalin said:

Do you a have a historical example of 4-5 light frigates  keeping a fleet of line ships form entering a battle? Or a Ship of the line battle when frigate won? In Naval Action, any competent captain of a light frigate can decimate a first rate. Its a game, get over it. Spare the Naval Academy stuff. Game availible mechanics only.

Pursued by the Turkish Fleet (6 ships of the line, 2 frigates, 2 corvettes), Russian brig Mercury engaged in unequal battle with line ships Selimiye (110 guns) and Real-bei (74 guns) near the Strait of Bosphorus. After damaging the ships one by one, the brig escaped pursuit

So.... yes

[Rick Astley]

4 minutes ago, rediii said:

The mercury didn't win the engagement neither wanted to disturb the turkish fleet. Just ran away and wanted to survive. While the turkish ships shot on hul the merc shot on rigging to escape, that's why no turkish guys got killed.

*flies away from global again*

It was successful in its job, demasting the SoLs.

it played the role of a screening ship in this game.

He asked for proof, I gave him proof.. you can try twisting the facts any direction you want... but the brig took on and was successful in disrupting an enemy fleet.

 

[Souvlaki]

1 hour ago, Bach said:

It is the nature of large teams with no clear leader to in fight following an unexpected loss  

Battle was 25v23 and each side was almost all Aggys. So the actual battle was pretty fair. What Britains are complaining about is not being able to employ their population advantage to create an unfair PB. It was a fair PB. Get over it. 

Next time Brit just needs to put its screeners on site >1hr to the PB and they can keep their population advantage in play. This time GB just got outplayed, this time, because the expected something that didn't happen and were not prepared for it. 

No, I don't think you're looking at this a tester. This game is in Alpha TESTING right now. So the mechanics are in flux and the way the players are going to be handled is in flux. I honestly don't care what nation is using scummy tactics like hiding in a battle for an hour, I think the subject should be addressed head-on by the devs and corrected. Having a group of players testing the game mechanics and showing areas that can easily be exploited to produce results that the devs do not wish, is a good thing. So hats off to the pirates for exposing this weakness in the game design. My only question is, will these loopholes be fixed and the topic addressed? Because if you take a big picture look at how this hurts the game, you'll see this kind of exploit removes the relevance of a lot of players (anyone who isn't directly in the PB) from having fun and participating. It's also an unfair advantage for the Pirate faction as constructed because they are the only faction who can use this exploit. Considering they are one of the bigger factions in the game, this is a pretty huge advantage and will only get worse on official release when you have a majority of players flocking to the pirates.

 

[Hodo]

On 7/16/2017 at 4:23 AM, Duncan McFail said:

I'm sorry. Do you think the game mechanics of screening are anything more than griefing. Meaning the biggest nation can always defend their ports because they have the numbers to keep out anyone who trys to take their ports. That system is bs to me. On global their would be no nation that could take a brit port unless all the nations combined to stop them. I'd rather see that decision made by who has more skill and tactics in the port battle rather than who can keep the enemy from getting to the port battle.

No offense but wars are often won by the one with the most numbers. 

 

I dont like the cowardly act of hiding in a battle before a port battle, exploiting a broken mechanic.   Yes it is an exploit.  

You abuse a known issue, there is no timer from joining a port battle from any battle.  Thus bypassing the chance at an OW fight with anyone.  

 

[Doug Maoz]

15 hours ago, Rick Astley said:

Pursued by the Turkish Fleet (6 ships of the line, 2 frigates, 2 corvettes), Russian brig Mercury engaged in unequal battle with line ships Selimiye (110 guns) and Real-bei (74 guns) near the Strait of Bosphorus. After damaging the ships one by one, the brig escaped pursuit

So.... yes

This is the wrong example I'm afraid. In this case, the Mercury was trying to escape while being ACTIVELY PURSUED by the larger fleet. In the GB screenings, pirates had no desire to pursue the smaller vessels, yet did not have a choice to continue on their original course. In real naval theory, they could completely ignore smaller vessels (to whatever detriment to their rigging etc) or have a running battle en route to the final target. Because the smaller ships were able to disrupt the larger fleet into separate realities (a necessary game feature, don't get me wrong), their smaller and more numerous ships were able to overwhelm the now-separated fleet.

There is nothing inherently wrong with this, IF IF IF there was some counterplay the pirates could have made. We tried our best to stick together in one 4th rate blob (no ships were more than 3 ship lengths away from each other); considering we are on a multiplayer server with lag and different speed ships we did pretty well. The heart of the issue is the RoE, as 5 frigs and smaller could tag 4 Aggies right off the front of our group with their surgical tag circle. There was no counterplay to this, even through as a large, well-organized fleet we should have wiped the floor with anyone who could tag us together (as demonstrated at the recent PaP PB).

In short, I am really looking forward to the RoE changes, as they are the core of this problem. We should not have been able to be separated when we were so close to each other. If we had been all straggled out, I see no problem with a screening fleet separating us into smaller battles but that was not the case here.

I hope that with the new RoE, people will not feel the need to circumvent screening via obscure methods. I had a ton of fun at the PB itself though, I hope we have more fights like that, both inside and outside port battles.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Doug Maoz

[Loco Bandito]

22 hours ago, Rick Astley said:

Pursued by the Turkish Fleet (6 ships of the line, 2 frigates, 2 corvettes), Russian brig Mercury engaged in unequal battle with line ships Selimiye (110 guns) and Real-bei (74 guns) near the Strait of Bosphorus. After damaging the ships one by one, the brig escaped pursuit

So.... yes

Link or it didn't happen

[Loco Bandito]

If the devs ban every player for finding a broken game mechanic there will be no one left playing. My friends on the national side have admitted they will do what ever it takes broken mechanic wise to win. So instead of blaming each other go to the devs and fix it after all it's alpha for the last 10 years. hello kitty all this forum crying I've got mates who want to play this game and they read through the forums and said this is more toxic than League if Legends. 

 

 

 

My suggestion for port battles and open world is battle royale style. One circle that shrinks over time forcing players to fight to the death. Most ships alive wins. Thus this eliminates people running from battle. If you go out the circle just like old pb mechanic after 5 min you take water and die.

now for open world tagging if you are the tagger same thing one circle that closes in and if you are the attacker you have no escape option or surrender as you initiated the fight you finish the fight this will stop grieving. No hit and runs. If you get attacked and are a defender you can still out run and have a chance to escape but if the attacker wants to grief then he can't leave battle and has to carry through his intention of attacking.

[Skully]

1 hour ago, Loco Bandito said:

My suggestion for port battles and open world is battle royale style. One circle that shrinks over time forcing players to fight to the death. Most ships alive wins. Thus this eliminates people running from battle. If you go out the circle just like old pb mechanic after 5 min you take water and die.

now for open world tagging if you are the tagger same thing one circle that closes in and if you are the attacker you have no escape option or surrender as you initiated the fight you finish the fight this will stop grieving. No hit and runs. If you get attacked and are a defender you can still out run and have a chance to escape but if the attacker wants to grief then he can't leave battle and has to carry through his intention of attacking.

Why should running away in a PB not be a viable option?

I like the sound of ensuring the attacker needs to carry through on OW. There is however a condition in which the attacker should be able to disengage. If the defender runs and goes beyond cannon range of the attacker, the battle is effectively over. A defender would however be able to stall the end of battle.

I did something similar in front of La Navasse with a Privateer against some Pirate Surprise. Stall him until we have a fleet in the area. (Offcourse the Pirates did the same and brought bigger ships... )

I wouldn't like being stuck for 90 minutes in a non-battle.