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hoarmurath

Navigation by triangulation

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The protractor is a fine tool, but what about giving us the possibility to draw circles on the map? What would really be fine is a tool that would allow us to chose circle center position, then it's radius. If we can do this with three circles, it gives us the capacity to try to guess our position by triangulation from our distance from ports, since they are given in the trading tool.

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Ah, bit it isn't triangulation. The trader tool is very useful indeed (I use it all the time for exactly this purpose), but in 19th century terms it is magic.

Navigators of the age were experts at measuring angles, and could triangulate their position if they could see anything to measure the angle of, but remotely measuring distance (except by measuring the angle subtended by a lighthouse, church tower, cliff or mountain of known height) was impossible till the late 20th century. 

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I was thinking about this weekend.

I tested you can use the distances to 3 cities for triangle a position in game using trader tool. Enter one good and sort the ports for distance. It marks in real time your aproximate position. This is a workaround, but maybe we can use something similar using angles with stars position in a captured screen (because the accelerated time) of the sky in a given hour.

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1 hour ago, Siegfried said:

I was thinking about this weekend.

I tested you can use the distances to 3 cities for triangle a position in game using trader tool. Enter one good and sort the ports for distance. It marks in real time your aproximate position. This is a workaround, but maybe we can use something similar using angles with stars position in a captured screen (because the accelerated time) of the sky in a given hour.

Why all this time-wasting complexity when we could have longitude and latitude as before--(as was historical)?

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19 hours ago, Lannes said:

Why all this time-wasting complexity when we could have longitude and latitude as before--(as was historical)?

Minigame, something more to do when navigate, skill level fun based and at same time easy to do for not so skilled people...

I like triangulation with port distance now, but the backside is the unrealism.

And the old system was not historical. The coordinates was too pinpoint and everytime, even with storms.

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4 hours ago, Siegfried said:

Minigame, something more to do when navigate, skill level fun based and at same time easy to do for not so skilled people...

I like triangulation with port distance now, but the backside is the unrealism.

And the old system was not historical. The coordinates was too pinpoint and everytime, even with storms.

You like it; I don't.

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12 minutes ago, Lannes said:

You like it; I don't.

Thanks for that information, I  can't to live without know it.

This is a thread for suggestions, not for arguing with me about you like or not. ;) 

Edited by Siegfried

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What's the point in using developer resources to model a navigation system that could only exist with radio waves of some kind?

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HODO wrote on another thread:

'I like the protractor, it is still pretty useless, and I am going to straight up say that I use an outside map tracking program like most everyone else, for long sails. But the issue isn't that it is too hard to find your way around, it is just unrealistically vague. Real ships of the time had accurate charts by the 19th century (1800 for you who can't count), and were damned good at navigation, as most captains had a life time at sea, 20+ years of learning and navigation under their belts. They also had several senior people on the ship who would also check the charts and the course to make sure the ship was sailing where it needed to be. I am not saying we need 8 digit grid coordinates or anything like that. I am asking for the lat and long lines on the maps grid lines. It could be every other line so we have the WHOLE number, not the 31.5, 30.5 and so on.  

This is more for map reading access, it is a simple thing, nothing too stupid or unrealistic. You have to remember by the time this game takes place, and most of these ships are in use, the Caribbean had been sailed for over 300 years!  Columbus 1492 -> Napoleonic War 1815 = 323 years!'

Historical! Bring back longitude and latitude! Please.

Edited by Lannes
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Protractor is all you need. if you can't use that then this is not your game. It even sets the marker on your compass. 

Edited by Ned Low
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2 minutes ago, AngryPanCake said:

By the way, what was the reasoning behind the removal of map coordinates?

Pinpoint accurate location of a battle when not close to any landmark ? Just a wild guess.

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Just now, The Red Duke said:

Pinpoint accurate location of a battle when not close to any landmark ? Just a wild guess.

One of them many potential exploits someone thought of, I see.

Like someone starts a battle then gives coordinates to friends who then come over and join it to tip the balance.

Thanks for the response.

 

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23 hours ago, Ned Low said:

Protractor is all you need. if you can't use that then this is not your game. It even sets the marker on your compass. 

Not my game, eh? And when they change back to longitude and latitude because of people like myself, will it stop being your game and shall I ask you to leave and go play with marbles? Look up 'narcissism'.

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On 06/06/2017 at 4:20 PM, Siegfried said:

Thanks for that information, I  can't to live without know it.

This is a thread for suggestions, not for arguing with me about you like or not. ;) 

Tell me about it!

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39 minutes ago, Lannes said:

Not my game, eh? And when they change back to longitude and latitude because of people like myself, will it stop being your game and shall I ask you to leave and go play with marbles? Look up 'narcissism'.

Not at all, we as people adapt if we are willing to do so, but without protractor new players would never stand a chance. 'Advanced navigation' is what you mean and I see it as useless atm and only should be added with love to manure enthusiasts only. Protractor is more than enough to sail with little to no error. If you read Devs post earlier, they will add your beloved l&l after game release. 

Calling me narcissist is very unwise, I do have the right as everyone else here to express my opinion and talk generally and not specifically about what I think is good or bad.

Edited by Ned Low

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On 6/6/2017 at 11:48 AM, Ned Low said:

Protractor is all you need. if you can't use that then this is not your game. It even sets the marker on your compass. 

I tried it, but not sure I figured it right, I guess I need some help.

After right clicking on the map to establish my waypoint, It showed a red little bar on my compass in sailing mode. Easy enough, you sail towards that direction, wind direction permitting. Then I was waiting to see a marker or something telling me I reached that waypoint, but didn't see anything and I guess I saild past it and then wasn't very sure where I was in the open sea.

Did I miss anything?

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No, you didn't miss anything. There's nothing to tell you that you have reached a waypoint.

Prudent navigators only set a course for a mission or a landmark.

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Would people object to bringing back Map Coordinates to the PvE server?

I am sure many new players start there and it would be a little more forgiving to sail in the OW with some indication of where you are. It will allow people to continue playing the game and progress and learn the harder stuff (manual sails, finer points of gunnery, combat maneuvers...etc), instead of getting frustrated from the get go and going crazy just trying to figure out where one's ship is?

 

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Just a little anecdote:

I had a wreck about 2/5 of the way from Jamaica to the continental coast, roughly SSE from KPR, so no landmarks anywhere near and the trader tool only being of limited value. So i set the protractor exactly to the ferrule on the mast, which is as close as I can tell the actual site of a wreck.

Set sail, estimated the earliest time I could get there by the accelerated game clock and went AFK for a bit. Came back at about the right time (which was way off for distance, as it happened), checked the trader tool, KPR against Cartagena (Cabo de la Vega would have been more appropriate, but Cartagena is one of those stand out ports in the trader tool, having such a long name). Realised I still had a fair way to go. As I got close to what I reckoned the right point it got dark. I kept a good look out and saw nothing. In the morning I looked at the trader tool again, saw I must have overshot and turned back, keeping the red mark behind me now.

Doing the return journey in daylight the wreck was obvious, perhaps a mile off my course.

I forget who suggested the protractor, but thank you, and thank you devs for putting it in game and adding the red mark to the compass. With the trader tool it is all I need.

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Was testing the "error" margin yesterday due to the need of a long cruise.

Overshot the marked target with a registered margin bound to North roughly 4º.

Quite nice.

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13 hours ago, AngryPanCake said:

I tried it, but not sure I figured it right, I guess I need some help.

After right clicking on the map to establish my waypoint, It showed a red little bar on my compass in sailing mode. Easy enough, you sail towards that direction, wind direction permitting. Then I was waiting to see a marker or something telling me I reached that waypoint, but didn't see anything and I guess I saild past it and then wasn't very sure where I was in the open sea.

Did I miss anything?

https://www.maptools.com/tutorials/plotting/protractor

 

Here, It's always the best to use land mass. This way you can make corrections, readjust and sail again. Placing end point in the middle of nowhere is risky. For example when hunting ship wrecks I draw the line over the shipwreck icon and try to stay straight on 'red' marker , but still get little error. What I found works best with that is 'Home' free fly camera that will let's you find sunk ship expanding your view range. If it's a long sail error usually can be up to 2 miles (NPC spot distance). 1 inch length on the map = approximately 15 mins real time. So, knowing that I measure and set timer when to activate Free fly camera and start searching. Works every time. 

Tip - Take stopwatch, find 2 ports that can be connected in straight line point A-B. Start sailing and record time. Once you reached point B, record time + open map take ruler and measure distance. This data will give you approximate time needed to sail anywhere with very accurate timing.  

Edited by Ned Low
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How about a hand bearing compass we can use from the deck of our ship? And a sextant? That would be much cooler than anything on the map screen.

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2 hours ago, Sansón Carrasco said:

How about a hand bearing compass we can use from the deck of our ship? And a sextant? That would be much cooler than anything on the map screen.

To use a sextant would be impossible because of the time acceleration. But you get my vote for suggesting a hand hearing compass.

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