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Jameson BH

MAKE NAVAL ACTION FUN AGAIN - MNAFA

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Macjimm    477
1 hour ago, Macjimm said:

Is this true.  I thought we were able to log off if we escaped?

 

1 hour ago, Hodo said:

You can... But you will sit in the open world till you auto log out.   So you will be in the OW for another minute after you become visible which means someone will drag you into a fight long before you can autolog.  

That's really weird.  I remember reading a post from the Admin before the the wipe that we would have a choice to log off to avoid being repeatedly dragged into battle.  Does any one else remember this?  Did the Devs change their minds?

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Liq    3,250
3 hours ago, Mrdoomed said:

Or do away with no cooldown teleports.  Then revenge fleets could only gank once per 4 hours. 

this

let's at least give it a try

remember admins quote

"Nelson didn't teleport around much"

Edited by Liquicity

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Liq    3,250
5 minutes ago, Macjimm said:

That's really weird.  I remember reading a post from the Admin before the the wipe that we would have a choice to log off to avoid being repeatedly dragged into battle.  Does any one else remember this?  Did the Devs change their minds?

If you escaped the battle you no longer will be placed in the same spot in the open world - if you escaped you escaped. No need to try to give someone a second chance to get you. To do so we will give the player the option to either exit to the open world or teleport him to the certain friendly port (for example nearest friendly port).  That's what would real life captain would do in case of certain danger - try to escape to the nearest friendly port. Thus the player will have lets say 5 mins to decide if he wants to exit to the OW, if he did not make this choice he will be escape to port. 

Looking at how things are now. 5 min timers and revenge fleets. Yes I would say they did very much change their opinions.

Maybe let's try bringing back cooldown on TP between national port so they could only revenge gank every 4 hours as suggested by Mrdoomed above.

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CaptVonGunn    322
1 hour ago, rownd said:

Honestly, people talk about this grind thing, but I haven't experienced it.  I only carried over 1000 XP from the previous server, but I make money easily about 50k a day and have plenty to do and more places to go than I'll have time to ever sail to.  The closest thing to a "grind" I've experienced is the time it takes to sink a helpless trader in a 7th rate, LOL. 

Switch your Basic Cutter guns to 6pdrs and the traders and their escorts become Much easier.. Sure it is costly if you lose but..meh it is a war game

Edited by CaptVonGunn

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CaptVonGunn    322
9 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

 

 

Looking at how things are now. 5 min timers and revenge fleets. Yes I would say they did very much change their opinions.

Maybe let's try bringing back cooldown on TP between national port so they could only revenge gank every 4 hours as suggested by Mrdoomed above.

I made a suggestion over a year ago to fix revenge fleets and was both ignored snd shouted down. 

For a PVP battle have the leave battle spawns be in a random direction from the battle start point if at least edge of avg visual range. Have each sides exit point be at least 90 degrees around the compass away from the other. 

 

Do this and your revenge fleet eill need to be insanely luckly or so large it can spread out over s huge area. In which case your SOL anyway

Edited by CaptVonGunn

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7 minutes ago, CaptVonGunn said:

Switch your Basic Cutter guns to 6pdrs and the traders and their escorts become Much easier.. Sure it is costly if you lose but..meh it is a war game

I did that long ago, but even so they just take a long time to wear down with a 7th rate, including privateer and pickle, which is why I'm calling that one activity grindy.  Unfortunately they are the most abundant target for a 7th rate in Open World.

 

Edited by rownd

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CaptVonGunn    322
Just now, rownd said:

I did that long ago, but even so they just take a long time to wear down with a 7th rate, which is why I'm calling that one activity grindy.  Unfortunately they are the most abundant target for a 7th rate in Open World.

 

How good are you with grape? Sometimes that is faster. Chain them to 80% or so then just kill crew to 25 or do... Do the bsit and switch attack, musket volley attack combo and your ususlly done

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Liq    3,250
3 minutes ago, CaptVonGunn said:

I made a suggestion over a year ago to fix revenge fleets and was both ignored snd shouted down. 

For a PVP battle have the leave battle spawns be in a random direction from the battle start point if at least edge of avg visual range. Have each sides exit point be at least 90 degrees around the compass away from the other. 

 

Do this and your revenge fleet eill need to be insanely luckly or so large it can spread out over s huge area. In which case your SOL anyway

Admin explained why this doesnt Work

Coding wise its just not possible, so you dont spawn in land. Would take a huge effort to code it. Same reason battle join circles are sometimes in land.

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2 minutes ago, CaptVonGunn said:

How good are you with grape? Sometimes that is faster. Chain them to 80% or so then just kill crew to 25 or do... Do the bsit and switch attack, musket volley attack combo and your ususlly done

My impression is that you need to remove their armor to make the grape effective anyway.  If you shoot away the armor that I'm assuming you might as well continue towards sinking them and not risk crew?

Edited by rownd

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CaptVonGunn    322
11 minutes ago, rownd said:

My impression is that you need to remove their armor to make the grape effective anyway.  If you shoot away the armor that I'm assuming you might as well continue towards sinking them and not risk crew?

Nah you aim right across the rails at the crews haed level.. I knocked a Trader brig down to 30 or so in maybe 4-5vollys. Get leeward so they are leaning toward you and yoi have more deck yo hit.

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CaptVonGunn    322
15 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

Admin explained why this doesnt Work

Coding wise its just not possible, so you dont spawn in land. Would take a huge effort to code it. Same reason battle join circles are sometimes in land.

I do not get that..  But given they still have AI ships sailing Through Islands maybe it us to hard for them... I would have expected the land masses would be coded by now as np movement or spawn allowed... But oh well

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15 hours ago, Kpt Lautenschlaeger said:

[gets on the soap-box and takes a deep breath]

I disagree. Naval Action, by its subject matter itself, is catering for a niche audience: people who are interested in (reasonably) realistic Age-of-Sail combat. 

This is not a mass market game like Word of Tanks or World of Warships. Tuning this to mass market preferences will (a) not pull in the mass market players, because they don't relate to Hornblower et Cie.; and (b) make all the niche audience grumpy monkeys, because these preferences do not produce an Age-of-Sail experience.

Rather, define an experience, design it, and then be ready to tweak it based on the feedback of players who have signed up to your experience. Which, from where I'm sitting, the devs are trying to do, with all the hair-pulling, finger-pointing and heated language that's inevitable in such a process., 

[gets off the soap-box, looking for a cuppa]

Perhaps I did not make myself very clear, apologies for that. When I said as many as possible, I meant as many prospective customers as possible. Prospective customers would be people who are interested in an authentic age of sail experience, naturally.

I just wonder how many people NA is losing due to the nature of the current game, as opposed to how many might be gained by considering those who aren't attracted by the current state of affairs.

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Neptune    410

An honest question here, what is bringing back revenge fleets and griefing suppose to achieve? You say these patch is supposed to bring back PvP and make it hardcore. Ok great, I'm glad the teleports are gone and people are back on the open world again. But again I ask, why do you think that bringing back revenge fleets and griefing is going to achieve that?

So what we have now is this.

Battles Last 1 Hour and 30 Minutes.

3 Types of PvP I've had in this patch

-Great PvP either close in BR or onesided, both still great fun because you were not tagged by a revenge fleet and they don't spawn on top of you because they actually had to catch you in the open world + in battle. You see the difference is revenge fleets surround you on the open world giving them a one sided advantage which is quite amusing right now and doesn't really want to make you want to look for PvP.

Now the problem lies here, this is what you need to fix to make NA a great PvP game again.

-Being griefed in my home waters and enemy waters by smaller ships that are just tagging over and over with no intention of actually fighting. I've had some stay at range and chain me with long guns from a distance just to keep me in, and then as soon as I escaped they would do the same thing again. Or after escaping the rest of the fleet that they called has arrived. This is one of the things that has returned that is just unacceptable.

- Going to enemy waters just to find some fun PvP, after the battle you have a large revenge fleet there to punish you. Now whether you escape once, chances are you won't the second time. Chances are if you do escape the second time you won't have time to spend another 2-3 hours running because nobody has that much time for a game. Atleast I think that is the case. So in the end you are forced to surrender. This makes no sense and you have stated before that no captain should have to escape twice, correct?

I mean come on, you need to find a fix for this. How many players have this happen to them and actually think this is ok? And how many players will have this happen to them and think that it is ok?

All we want is a great PvP game where you aren't punished for looking for PvP and creating fun content for both sides. We also don't want constant griefing that just ruins the sailing experience on open world. I know I've posted a lot on this topic, that is because I care and it worrys me that this is going to overshadow the real PvP in this game that makes it so fun. None of these problems should exist, if they didn't NA would be the most close to perfect OW PvP game there is.

Edited by Neptune

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Blackjack Morgan    1,026

All I'm going to say is that this game has changed its course dramatically from where it started back in 2013. Don't believe me? Go back and read old posts from Devs and testers alike. What started off as a game that leaned toward realism while never losing focus on fun has gone the way of the dinosaur. A game that once offered the prospects of relatively easily accessible and challenging pvp minus the drudgery of mundane crafting pre-requisites. I think I started testing in 2014 and I look back and I'm not sure how we even got to where we are at now? It's like someone came in and decided to shift the entire core mechanics and vision of what Naval Action promised to be into what we see here today.

I'm not saying that is not their prerogative to do so....and obviously there are some who find this new direction appealing. It just reminds me of that girl who you fall head over heels for and someday you wake up and realize 3 years later she is completely different. That is NA for me right now....I truly love so much about the game but this patch is just a giant enema....and it's caused massive spewage. 

 

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SeamanStaines    244
15 minutes ago, Blackjack Morgan said:

All I'm going to say is that this game has changed its course dramatically from where it started back in 2013. Don't believe me? Go back and read old posts from Devs and testers alike. What started off as a game that leaned toward realism while never losing focus on fun has gone the way of the dinosaur. A game that once offered the prospects of relatively easily accessible and challenging pvp minus the drudgery of mundane crafting pre-requisites. I think I started testing in 2014 and I look back and I'm not sure how we even got to where we are at now? It's like someone came in and decided to shift the entire core mechanics and vision of what Naval Action promised to be into what we see here today.

I'm not saying that is not their prerogative to do so....and obviously there are some who find this new direction appealing. It just reminds me of that girl who you fall head over heels for and someday you wake up and realize 3 years later she is completely different. That is NA for me right now....I truly love so much about the game but this patch is just a giant enema....and it's caused massive spewage. 

 

Eloquently phrased. It perfectly describes how I feel. The hot nymphet has turned into a bad tempered heffer.

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JollyRoger1516    705

@admin Looking past how the OP phrased his concerns I gotta say I can agree to a lot of it. Hell I am currently progressing better in the tier 8-10 ranges of World of Warships then in this game while putting less time into it :/ And the most important bit will remain that the current implementation will lead to an even higher loss of new players. Us veterans stick around to see past the grind. We bitch and moan but in the end we get it over with and play. New players don't.. They are disheartened very quickly(right now we can't even really help them as we need the money ourselves) and drop the game for something else. With old players leaving every once in a while there needs to be something to counter the slow bleed.

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randommexi    56
On ‎6‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 2:57 AM, Jameson BH said:

it begins today.

Are you tired of the game you bought and paid for no longer being FUN to play, why is it not fun you might say;

a. massive timesink - the only people that will sail big ships and be able to afford repairs etc will be those in large clans who bypass most of the problems through volume, the solo casual player has no options except to buy multiple accounts if he/she wants to sail anything bigger than a belle poule.

b. Grind,grind and more grind - the game know has grind in its very lifeblood, driving players away, forcing players to grind the same content over and over again until all joy is sucked out of the OW -the dementor syndrome (HP Fans)

c. Voice not being listened to - When did you last feel a change was made to the game that made it better, gave you better quality of life in game than before and was not shouted down by the hardcore pvp realism armchair admirals.

d. Choices should be optional - If I want teleport - option on/off, if I want navigation grid and position - option on/off, if I want deliveries - option on/off. If some armchair admiral wants to play the game sitting in his rocking chair outside with the fan blowing full in his face and his neighbour spraying him with a garden hose while he pukes in a bucket to simulate "realism" - no there should not be an option for this but he can go right ahead and do it but stop letting his quest for realism ruin my game.

e. Make things easier for new players - Please realize without an influx of new players this game dies, it becomes stale, it loses new ideas and inputs and becomes a fanboi product with people who ram their version of this is how it should be played down everyones throat.

f. Fix the economy - Econ does not work, either fix it for the small playerbase that plays this game or return it to where it was when npcs sold stuff,

g. Devs stop listening to just the hardcore, realism fanbois - you have an entire different type customer out here that you pretty much ignore, and all he wants is a game he can play casually and have some fun.

h. The game will lose all these hardcore pvp monkeys to Arena mode, please ignore everything they say about developing this game - wake up and smell the coffee, these guys need to be preening their plumage and leeting it up all the time you really think they will stay fully active on OW where it will take an hour to get a fight when they can be demonstrating how leet they are in Arena mode every 20 mins and will probably have some sort of leet pvp leaderboard so they can show pics to their friends and family.

 

There are many more reasons for MNAFA but I will begin it with the reasons outlined above. Start to insist that the devs MNAFA from today, reclaim the game from the crazies and lets get the game we want, a fun, engaging, age of sail mmo not the mess that it has become. 

Add MNAFA to your post, +1 this thread, like this post, lets see where this goes. Maybe just maybe there are enough who feel annoyed like me to begin something if not then at least i tried.

 

 

 

A - all video games are...

B - I grind players... its easier that way

C - if we listened to your voice, most of the current people playing this game would quit and no one would start playing

D - No... just no....

E -  YES YES YES YES YES YES!!! no new player retention is bad.  gotta make early life better.

F - Yes, the economy needs some love, but that'll take time.  currently it is rough.  but will shape up in time.

G - the hardcore are the people that wont quit, and will continue to play.  and maybe the Dev's want to make  a game for the hardcore and not for the faint of heart.

H - Arena mode?  like WoT and such?  I don't think so... those games blow chunks I will not even be trying some sort of Arena mode... no point in playing that garbage.  

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victor    690
13 hours ago, rownd said:

Honestly, people talk about this grind thing, but I haven't experienced it.  I only carried over 1000 XP from the previous server, but I make money easily about 50k a day and have plenty to do and more places to go than I'll have time to ever sail to.  The closest thing to a "grind" I've experienced is the time it takes to sink a helpless trader in a 7th rate, LOL. 

Wait, my son. Wait. Time will tell you the truth.

When you will have past the 2000 hours of grin ... ehm playing ... you will understand better some complaining.

You know, old people are always so grumpy .... but once upon a time they also were young and filled with entusiasm. There's a reason for it :rolleyes:

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Mrdoomed    1,531
9 hours ago, Neptune said:

An honest question here, what is bringing back revenge fleets and griefing suppose to achieve? You say these patch is supposed to bring back PvP and make it hardcore. Ok great, I'm glad the teleports are gone and people are back on the open world again. But again I ask, why do you think that bringing back revenge fleets and griefing is going to achieve that?

So what we have now is this.

Battles Last 1 Hour and 30 Minutes.

3 Types of PvP I've had in this patch

-Great PvP either close in BR or onesided, both still great fun because you were not tagged by a revenge fleet and they don't spawn on top of you because they actually had to catch you in the open world + in battle. You see the difference is revenge fleets surround you on the open world giving them a one sided advantage which is quite amusing right now and doesn't really want to make you want to look for PvP.

Now the problem lies here, this is what you need to fix to make NA a great PvP game again.

-Being griefed in my home waters and enemy waters by smaller ships that are just tagging over and over with no intention of actually fighting. I've had some stay at range and chain me with long guns from a distance just to keep me in, and then as soon as I escaped they would do the same thing again. Or after escaping the rest of the fleet that they called has arrived. This is one of the things that has returned that is just unacceptable.

- Going to enemy waters just to find some fun PvP, after the battle you have a large revenge fleet there to punish you. Now whether you escape once, chances are you won't the second time. Chances are if you do escape the second time you won't have time to spend another 2-3 hours running because nobody has that much time for a game. Atleast I think that is the case. So in the end you are forced to surrender. This makes no sense and you have stated before that no captain should have to escape twice, correct?

I mean come on, you need to find a fix for this. How many players have this happen to them and actually think this is ok? And how many players will have this happen to them and think that it is ok?

All we want is a great PvP game where you aren't punished for looking for PvP and creating fun content for both sides. We also don't want constant griefing that just ruins the sailing experience on open world. I know I've posted a lot on this topic, that is because I care and it worrys me that this is going to overshadow the real PvP in this game that makes it so fun. None of these problems should exist, if they didn't NA would be the most close to perfect OW PvP game there is.

This can all be fixed by one simple thing that the devs are to stubborn to do. Remove no cooldown teleports.  It would be IMPOSSIBLE for revenge fleets to gank over and over.

The reason there seem to be so many Revenge fleets Now isn't because of something new it's because the server populations have climbed up again the same thing happened on my server when no cooldown teleports were introduced it was impossible to play there for 2/3 of my server quit then it became playable again after the population Falls below 400 so I guess thats the goal. A server below 400 people. 

No matter how many want to argue it the teleport thing has caused more problems than it was ever supposed to fix and it makes even the tiniest loophole a hugeexploit. 

There is no reason now that no cooldown teleports cant be removed and justallow people to manage your outposts from a single tab anywhere on map. Now it just seems like pride keeping it from being done.

Edited by Mrdoomed

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admin    28,086
13 hours ago, Liquicity said:

Admin explained why this doesnt Work

Coding wise its just not possible, so you dont spawn in land. Would take a huge effort to code it. Same reason battle join circles are sometimes in land.

There is enough bullshit in the world but you manage to break records in your post :)

We never said that and actually when it was discussed we said something completely different. You can code everything.

In the reinforcement zones issue; it is impossible to solve the problem of searching for reinforcement zones suitable for both sides because it is impossible to find the solution fast and found solution will still be sub optimal in multiple cases(for example you are on the edge of the honduras and we have to move reinforcement zone to the pacific). Or to rephrase any other solution will have a lot more sub optimal reinforcement zones than the current solution. Thus current solution (having least number of suboptimal reinforcement zones) is the best solution. It also gives smart captains options to completely deny reinforcements to enemies. 

Just like with port battles - rookie designer could say - lets design the map for port battles that is good for both sides and will waste . Experienced designer (lets say who already shipped 500k copies over last 2 years) would say:  no lets let nature design the port battles saving hundreds of hours on balancing, design, and other issues. 

13 hours ago, CaptVonGunn said:

I do not get that..  But given they still have AI ships sailing Through Islands maybe it us to hard for them... I would have expected the land masses would be coded by now as np movement or spawn allowed... But oh well

Captain. You suddenly look like a  backseat armchair programmer who discuss something they have no idea about. Want to code something good? Code it and I will buy it from you. 

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admin    28,086
10 hours ago, Neptune said:

-Great PvP either close in BR or onesided, both still great fun because you were not tagged by a revenge fleet and they don't spawn on top of you because they actually had to catch you in the open world + in battle. You see the difference is revenge fleets surround you on the open world giving them a one sided advantage which is quite amusing right now and doesn't really want to make you want to look for PvP.

Now the problem lies here, this is what you need to fix to make NA a great PvP game again.

-Being griefed in my home waters and enemy waters by smaller ships that are just tagging over and over with no intention of actually fighting. I've had some stay at range and chain me with long guns from a distance just to keep me in, and then as soon as I escaped they would do the same thing again. Or after escaping the rest of the fleet that they called has arrived. This is one of the things that has returned that is just unacceptable.

 

In your first comments you say revenge fleets are an answer to everything. Yet in the second paragraph you say you are constantly being attacked in home waters. 

Question. Why revenge fleet (or better call them home defence fleets) don't help in second case?  We were under the impression revenge (home defence fleets) are actually destroying everything that moves.

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Sir Texas Sir    3,660
1 hour ago, Mrdoomed said:

This can all be fixed by one simple thing that the devs are to stubborn to do. Remove no cooldown teleports.  It would be IMPOSSIBLE for revenge fleets to gank over and over.

The reason there seem to be so many Revenge fleets Now isn't because of something new it's because the server populations have climbed up again the same thing happened on my server when no cooldown teleports were introduced it was impossible to play there for 2/3 of my server quit then it became playable again after the population Falls below 400 so I guess thats the goal. A server below 400 people. 

No matter how many want to argue it the teleport thing has caused more problems than it was ever supposed to fix and it makes even the tiniest loophole a hugeexploit. 

There is no reason now that no cooldown teleports cant be removed and justallow people to manage your outposts from a single tab anywhere on map. Now it just seems like pride keeping it from being done.

The other reason revenge fleets are high right now is cause idiots keep tagging folks right in front or fast response distance of a capital.  You don't want a fast response team to get or set up a trap around the battle, stop attacking around the main buisy hot spots of areas.

Than again we pretty much will go into the green zone of KPR some times to tease them to come out and play.  We gotten burned a few times doing this though lol

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Liq    3,250

Thanks for the kind words sir

Before you stated it was a 'feature', not being able to join battles due to circles in land. More like because it would take too much work to make it properly. May not be impossible okay, but too much work to fix it

Only because something is ingame for a year it doesnt mean it's a feature

example, in csgo you still can't mollotov a steep ramp due to map design limits. But would valve describe it as a feature? I doubt it. They know it sucks but cant do much

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The Red Duke    6,298

It happens so so rarely.

Even when very close to land.

Seen it myself twice since the separate reinforcement circles were introduced.

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admin    28,086
9 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

Thanks for the kind words sir

Before you stated it was a 'feature', not being able to join battles due to circles in land. More like because it would take too much work to make it properly. May not be impossible okay, but too much work to fix it

Only because something is ingame for a year it doesnt mean it's a feature

example, in csgo you still can't mollotov a steep ramp due to map design limits. But would valve describe it as a feature? I doubt it. They know it sucks but cant do much

no problem you are always welcome

again we never said it would take too much work to make properly - we said there is NO other implementation to work properly. current implementation is best. Others are possible but are worse. We have no plans to discuss tunings or changes to this feature as it has been working ok since 12th april 2016

You can read on the definition of the feature here. http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/feature 

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