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squedage

New rewards

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Love how me and another guy can demast 2 ships then capture it then get -exp for it. New rewards are racist as they punish people that like the board and capture ships. This is a purposeful attack on boarders and people that like to take ships instead of sink them.

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The ship is the reward. Cant have marks AND the ship.

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Particiapted in a battle outside Mortimer on PvP - Global. Lasted for about 40 minutes.

In the end the pirates managed to capture 2 of the French players. In the process of the two fleeing ships, I demast one, and demast another's main and foremast. As a player that goes for rigging, my goal is not to get "kills" but I assist by crippling ships for other members to finish off...

Well after that I got -20xp ? (Ok yeah a few of my balls may have hit my allied player) but that is all it takes to completely offset the effort and time I put in ?
 

Edited by Jean Pual Vilvenue
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4 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

The ship is the reward. Cant have marks AND the ship.

the problem is that you dont get exp or gold for doing it. Thats whats bs about it. Im not asking for loot the ship is the loot but to loose exp and get no gold for it is stupid. On top of that you dont get any ship exp for doing that which is horse S H I T and the devs know this and dont care. That is why im calling it racist. I board thats what i like thats how i play and now i get nothing for it

 

Edited by squedage

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4 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

The ship is the reward. Cant have marks AND the ship.

Dont want the shitty marks. I wanted positive XP for part-taking in a 40 minute long battle against other players...

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6 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

The ship is the reward. Cant have marks AND the ship.

The thing is we don't care about the marks and credits, you should still get the XP for a kill or capture in a fight no matter what for what you did.  The reward is the Marks/Credits for a Kill or the Ship for the capture.  I was fighting big on this on testbed as it's not fair that one guy captures a ship and now every one in the fight is out of there xp for what they have done.  Than lets put the cherry on top of it, if you did any damage to your team mates you not only get no rewards you get -xp for the team damage.   Which normally would be made up with xp for the fight.

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1 hour ago, squedage said:

Love how me and another guy can demast 2 ships then capture it then get -exp for it. New rewards are racist as they punish people that like the board and capture ships. This is a purposeful attack on boarders and people that like to take ships instead of sink them.

Ok.... Just to clarify... You feel discriminated against on the basis of the colour of your skin because you feel the rewards in an age of sail game promotes a certain kind of gameplay over another?

1 hour ago, squedage said:

the problem is that you dont get exp or gold for doing it. Thats whats bs about it. Im not asking for loot the ship is the loot but to loose exp and get no gold for it is stupid. On top of that you dont get any ship exp for doing that which is horse S H I T and the devs know this and dont care. That is why im calling it racist. I board thats what i like thats how i play and now i get nothing for it

 

Well.. Just for your information: Racism is the discrimination of some on basis of the colour of their skin. As such that term can not be applied to the feeling of being short-handed in the rewards for boarding and capping an enemy. You can claim that the mechanic is counter productive to its intended purpose or that the mechanic is not conducive to promote PvP as intended but you can not claim that the mechanic is rooted in some form of racist discrimination. 

 

EDIT: And take a look everyone - I've learned how to multi qoute.. Not bad for a bitter old man!

Edited by Bearwall
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1 hour ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

The thing is we don't care about the marks and credits, you should still get the XP for a kill or capture in a fight no matter what for what you did.  The reward is the Marks/Credits for a Kill or the Ship for the capture.  I was fighting big on this on testbed as it's not fair that one guy captures a ship and now every one in the fight is out of there xp for what they have done.  Than lets put the cherry on top of it, if you did any damage to your team mates you not only get no rewards you get -xp for the team damage.   Which normally would be made up with xp for the fight.

Now this is a valid complaint - especially for the lower ranks trying to lvl through PvP.

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4 minutes ago, Bearwall said:

Ok.... Just to clarify... You feel discriminated against on the basis of the colour of your skin because you feel the rewards in an age of sail game promotes a certain kind of gameplay over another?

Well.. Just for your information: Racism is the discrimination of some on basis of the colour of their skin. As such that term can not be applied to the feeling of being short-handed in the rewards for boarding and capping an enemy. You can claim that the mechanic is counter productive to its intended purpose or that the mechanic is not conducive to promote PvP as intended but you can not claim that the mechanic is rooted in some form of racist discrimination. 

 

EDIT: And take a look everyone - I've learned how to multi qoute.. Not bad for a bitter old man!

its called a)click bait and b] sarcasm but its still a problem if you cant read between the lines with thats being said them im sry 

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13 minutes ago, Bearwall said:

Now this is a valid complaint - especially for the lower ranks trying to lvl through PvP.

Its an analogy. It being racist means it discriminates on the colour of the skin. In this case he means, it discriminates against legitimate tactics that some players want to adopt. Not only does it not reward you, it punishes you if you hit the sail of  your allies with a few cannon balls.

A rough battle summary was I did over 300 sail damage, 30-40 hull, 3 masts, and 100 crew. = -20xp

 

Edited by Jean Pual Vilvenue
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I think someone needs to brush on their definitions on what exactly racism is.  Perhaps the word you are looking for is "biased".  As a teacher IRL your post has me slightly triggered...

Despite OPs poor choice in wording he does bring up a good point.  No gold or xp for a pvp battle discourages players who are in need of both from sailing out and sinking the enemy.  This game should encourage combat that does not involve farming AI as much as possible. 

You either get the ship or the marks, but everyone should get gold and xp. 

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Just now, Christendom said:

I think someone needs to brush on their definitions on what exactly racism is.  Perhaps the word you are looking for is "biased".  As a teacher IRL your post has me slightly triggered...

Despite OPs poor choice in wording he does bring up a good point.  No gold or xp for a pvp battle discourages players who are in need of both from sailing out and sinking the enemy.  This game should encourage combat that does not involve farming AI as much as possible. 

You either get the ship or the marks, but everyone should get gold and xp. 

agreed

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4 minutes ago, Christendom said:

I think someone needs to brush on their definitions on what exactly racism is.  Perhaps the word you are looking for is "biased".  As a teacher IRL your post has me slightly triggered...

Despite OPs poor choice in wording he does bring up a good point.  No gold or xp for a pvp battle discourages players who are in need of both from sailing out and sinking the enemy.  This game should encourage combat that does not involve farming AI as much as possible. 

You either get the ship or the marks, but everyone should get gold and xp. 

i know its suppose to be bias and not racist but as i said earlier i did it for part of the click bait to get people to have a look and see that this is something that is a big problem and needs to get fixed and that the devs have no intention of fixing it

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I agree with the author. In fact, I can see a way for the loot options to be improved in such scenario.

1) If player sinks a ship, they should be able to obtain only part of the target ship's hold. In this case player receives partly XP and gold for sinking a ship as well as some loot.

2) If player captures a ship, they should be able to obtain all of the cargo hold. This means, more loot and reasonable XP are obtained. 

If devs will begin to work in that direction, it will only make the game better. As for the pirate myself, I feel that there is simply not enough loot. Sometimes, there is none at all. 

 

I wish the game would be more alike Age of Pirates, where you have to buy various goods (balls, chains, food, meds, planks) and so forth OR obtain small bits of that from the ships you are capturing. In Age of Pirates you had a very strong definition of being a pirate. You find a ship, you capture it, you feast on its booty. It's that simple. 

But we must not forget that the game is still in Alpha and a lot of changes are to be made and a lot of features are to be added. Hopefully, devs will pick up or get own ideas from this thread and will address to the problem accordingly. Communication is the key.

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If I don't have to sink your ship that means I can hunt traders and demand surrender of them and leave their ship to them after clearing out the hold. It would encourage good gameplay (even realistic for that matter) similarly to what we have as pirates in Elite Dangerous where compliance can be rewarded. As long as the rewards are not there though most players will choose to sink you even after complying making that a useless move.

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Doesn't make much sense that you can earn XP from casually getting a couple of broadsides in a ship that someone else ends up sinking, but cannot when you put in the time to carefully demast and decrew it then take the risk to board it. I can understand no Gold reward for capturing ships (you get the loot, you get the ship) but XP rewards for captures should be calculated the same way as kills.  

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2 hours ago, Jean Pual Vilvenue said:

Particiapted in a battle outside Mortimer on PvP - Global. Lasted for about 40 minutes.

In the end the pirates managed to capture 2 of the French players. In the process of the two fleeing ships, I demast one, and demast another's main and foremast. As a player that goes for rigging, my goal is not to get "kills" but I assist by crippling ships for other members to finish off...

Well after that I got -20xp ? (Ok yeah a few of my balls may have hit my allied player) but that is all it takes to completely offset the effort and time I put in ?
 

I have pointed out stupidity of this exp system many times on the testbed. Back then it wasnt a problem since not many players played to rank up. Hopefully now with more voices against it, we will get some changes soon.

Edited by Borch
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2 minutes ago, VonBarb said:

Doesn't make much sense that you can earn XP from casually getting a couple of broadsides in a ship that someone else ends up sinking, but cannot when you put in the time to carefully demast and decrew it then take the risk to board it. I can understand no Gold reward for capturing ships (you get the loot, you get the ship) but XP rewards for captures should be calculated the same way as kills.  

The title of this discussion is misleading. I almost skipped it.

I think the battle rewards need some adjustments. My suggestion is:

1) The current system is ok if in the end of the battle you manage to sink the enemy ship. Every one gets some xp and money and sometimes even some loot.

2) If the enemy ship is captured, the player who captured the ship gets a fraction (e.g. 30%) of the xp you get for a kill and damage, but does not get gold (he/she gets a ship and loot). Those players who assisted in the capture get normal xp based on damage and some gold (maybe 10% of what you get normally).

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1 hour ago, squedage said:

i know its suppose to be bias and not racist but as i said earlier i did it for part of the click bait to get people to have a look and see that this is something that is a big problem and needs to get fixed and that the devs have no intention of fixing it

I believe what he meant is that he feels discriminated in the rewards that he has received, as a result of the actions he has taken in battle.

But i concur, XP points and Gold should be basic rewards for participating in battle and doing damage.

Loot and marks should be reserved for the people that actually sink or board and capture the prize.

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4 hours ago, Jean Pual Vilvenue said:

I wanted positive XP for part-taking in a 40 minute long battle against other players...

System works like this now. 
Example numbers

Target value = Prize 500 xp 5 pvp marks

if you attack the target solo

  • If you sink this ship alone you will get 500 xp and 5 pvp marks
  • If you capture the ship alone you will get the ship

If 5 of you attack the target (gank)

  • If 5 players sink the target and everyone makes 20% damage each will get 100xp and 1 pvp marks
  • If 5 players capture the target they get the ship. 

.........

Previous system with free welfare rewards for just damage was silly and was promoting farming.  Previous system of granting XP to everyone was promoting ganking. You could level up to rear admiral by doing nothing and just shooting someones victory in a distant corner of the world. 

New system stops damage farming or kill where players will just switch ships by boarding generating kills and free xp out of nothing without any effort. To get XP or marks ship must sink.

If we grant xp for captures some players will trade kills with each other by using the following method

  • Take a victory and a cutter.
  • Start a battle near a distant free town. 
  • Cutter captures victory
  • Players switch
  • Cutter captures victory
  • Repeat until you are rear admirals

This would give an advantage to players who farm over players who play normally. In current implementation there is no difference. Farming is possible but it costs some good money. 

What we like about new system is this.

  • Promotes crafting and removes ships from the system (controlling inflation)
  • Reduces the benefits from gankers (gankers level up and get rewards slower depending on the size of their group)
  • Maximum benefits are received by people doing large equal battles

Maybe we overvalue the importance of XP (maybe we should not care if players can farm the xp for free).  This new system is new and will of course require some tuning to become perfect.

 

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1 minute ago, admin said:

System works like this now. 
Example numbers

Target value = Prize 500 xp 5 pvp marks

if you attack the target solo

  • If you sink this ship alone you will get 500 xp and 5 pvp marks
  • If you capture the ship alone you will get the ship

If 5 of you attack the target (gank)

  • If 5 players sink the target and everyone makes 20% damage each will get 100xp and 1 pvp marks
  • If 5 players capture the target they get the ship. 

.........

Previous system with free welfare rewards for just damage was silly and was promoting farming.  Previous system of granting XP to everyone was promoting ganking. You could level up to rear admiral by doing nothing and just shooting someones victory in a distant corner of the world. 

New system stops damage farming or kill where players will just switch ships by boarding generating kills and free xp out of nothing without any effort. To get XP or marks ship must sink.

If we grant xp for captures some players will trade kills with each other by using the following method

  • Take a victory and a cutter.
  • Start a battle near a distant free town. 
  • Cutter captures victory
  • Players switch
  • Cutter captures victory
  • Repeat until you are rear admirals

This would give an advantage to players who farm over players who play normally. In current implementation there is no difference. Farming is possible but it costs some good money. 

What we like about new system is this.

  • Promotes crafting and removes ships from the system (controlling inflation)
  • Reduces the benefits from gankers (gankers level up and get rewards slower depending on the size of their group)
  • Maximum benefits are received by people doing large equal battles

Maybe we overvalue the importance of XP (maybe we should not care if players can farm the xp for free).  This new system is new and will of course require some tuning to become perfect.

 

and thats whats stupid why must i sink a ship as someone who likes to board and take ships to get xp. THAT MAKES NO SENSE!!!!!!!!!! I make my money by selling the ships that i take from others thats fine and no pvp marks.. ok i got a ship whatever, but to say you get no xp ether is the dumbs thing i have ever heard and i work with mental health patients.... (just let that sink in) 

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But if you take the price you still get negative effects of the battle.  Which use to be covered by the xp you gained. I think there should be a tweek to fix that part where if you had still made enough xp to remove that penalty it is removed.  So you get the ship and that is it.  Other wise it will hurt any one leveling up.

Another thing does negative xp effect your ship knowledge xp for a ship or is it locked to only go up?

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6 minutes ago, squedage said:

and thats whats stupid why must i sink a ship as someone who likes to board and take ships to get xp. THAT MAKES NO SENSE!!!!!!!!!! I make my money by selling the ships that i take from others thats fine and no pvp marks.. ok i got a ship whatever, but to say you get no xp ether is the dumbs thing i have ever heard and i work with mental health patients.... (just let that sink in) 

you should come down mate.. 
thats the point of the forum - to post found problems and fix them

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10 minutes ago, admin said:

System works like this now. 
Example numbers

Target value = Prize 500 xp 5 pvp marks

if you attack the target solo

  • If you sink this ship alone you will get 500 xp and 5 pvp marks
  • If you capture the ship alone you will get the ship

If 5 of you attack the target (gank)

  • If 5 players sink the target and everyone makes 20% damage each will get 100xp and 1 pvp marks
  • If 5 players capture the target they get the ship. 

.........

Previous system with free welfare rewards for just damage was silly and was promoting farming.  Previous system of granting XP to everyone was promoting ganking. You could level up to rear admiral by doing nothing and just shooting someones victory in a distant corner of the world. 

New system stops damage farming or kill where players will just switch ships by boarding generating kills and free xp out of nothing without any effort. To get XP or marks ship must sink.

If we grant xp for captures some players will trade kills with each other by using the following method

  • Take a victory and a cutter.
  • Start a battle near a distant free town. 
  • Cutter captures victory
  • Players switch
  • Cutter captures victory
  • Repeat until you are rear admirals

This would give an advantage to players who farm over players who play normally. In current implementation there is no difference. Farming is possible but it costs some good money. 

What we like about new system is this.

  • Promotes crafting and removes ships from the system (controlling inflation)
  • Reduces the benefits from gankers (gankers level up and get rewards slower depending on the size of their group)
  • Maximum benefits are received by people doing large equal battles

Maybe we overvalue the importance of XP (maybe we should not care if players can farm the xp for free).  This new system is new and will of course require some tuning to become perfect.

 

Its all makes sense until you start thinking on behalf of the legit player and not the exploiter.
Totally see where you are coming from and what you are trying to avoid.
However,... negative experience? Also why not give some? Reduced and nerfed and not enough for farming, but at least some for capping/assisting?

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4 minutes ago, admin said:

you should come down mate.. 
thats the point of the forum - to post found problems and fix them

and all im saying is that the current rewards for battles is stupid. And that the fact that if you play like i do to board and steal ships you shouldnt be punished like it is right now.

the grind is hard enough as it is now why take pvp away from boarders too.

Edited by squedage
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