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Kleinburger

Naval Action Legends Suggestions

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Since this will be a combat arena game it leaves the potential for more time and resources that can could be allocated to adding more ships from different nations. So if the game had something along the lines of warthunder or world of warships with different ship lines for each nation would be pretty cool. Most of the research has been done already in the Naval Action Shipyards forum granted some additions would need a little artistic license applied to be able to model but would be interesting to see a bunch of these ships.

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I disagree on many levels on the introduction of "national" lines spread along tiers.

First it forces development of a lot of ships that a small team can't do. One ship per tier per nation at least, assuming 3 nations to begin with (France, UK, Spain) and 10 tiers, would mean 30 ship models. FAR too much.

Second, "tiering" shapes up gameplay in a way that's not conductive with the immersive/historical aspect of the fighting. The expectations of "tier V having to be much better than tier III" in a game where there are no made-up artificual values to be toyed with means you need a very specific tree of ships to place at the corresponding tiers. Given how limited and difficult at times, to reach historical blueprints are, that's a problem - the developer would probably struggle to find adequate ships to adequate distribute across the levels. And at the end of it all one has to remember that naval tech didn't progress hugely in that time - meaning later ships weren't neccessarily more powerful than prior ones, adding even more layers of complexity to the problem.

Finally a "tiered" system would probably make people expect "tiered" matches. If you're Tier 4 you won't expect to see tier 9s. While that's totally necessary in a game like WoT or WoWS given that the vehicles at high tiers most of the time can't even be damaged by low tier ones while being one-shotted in return, it's NOT necessary here. I've got dozens of videos of the Sea Trials era including some of myself playing an 8 gun Lynx in pretty large battles against enemies in Victories and having not only a ton of fun at it, but also being very succesful at it. Obviously a 1v1 lynx vs Surprise should never happen in a game like this, ships should have battleratings and a battlerating-balanced matchmaker. But with that, and making all ships handle as they should (which is a trademark of this game), there's no need for tiers AT ALL

A good gameplay instance of what I say is Fractured Space where your starting ships are perfectly able to go into battle against anything other players have, from the get go, with perfect chances to do very well.

Progression system?. Yes. Unlock system? Yes.

but Tiers? .... NO, please

And national trees?....down the line when there are a lot more ship models, maybe. For the time being, I don't think there are enough of them to warrant division by nations.

Edited by RAMJB

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@RAMJB Makes a good point about a Tier system. With a tier system you are less likely to have a battle with multiple ship classes, or for example a battle with a Privateer and a Niagara, when you did in fact have these ship types together historically. One of the good things in WT is the special events which put together a historical selection of tanks from a particular battle, rather than using the BR system. I like @Kleinburger idea about national ship lines or tress if you will though, some players like the grind in this way. There are still differences in ship design if not technology that make work in a national tree. I do get the issue with the limited ships ATM. Using trees might depend on the payment model frankly.  

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Naval Action 2, or whatever the final name is, has the potential to absolutely amazing. The single almost universal sentiment shared by everyone who has played Naval Action is that the combat system is superb. What everyone seems to disagree on is the things like economy, grinding good/bad, time sinks, hardcore vs not hardcore enough etc. etc. So, when you are starting with such a strong foundation for a game design with a more limited scope I believe you already are on the road to success. 

I strongly disagree with anyone who says that an arena style game is inherently shallow and can't offer depth. It can can offer substantial depth and various game modes if they want it to. Things like historical battle recreation scenarios....these could even be offered to PVE players quite easily....various team vs team modes 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, 25v25, you get the idea.....battles based off BR to offer various ships and tactical choices in battles....dry dock screen that allows for visual customization of your ships....leader boards....and many others that I could list. It doesn't have to be a duplicate of WoT or any other game for that matter.

I wouldn't be afraid to borrow or copy certain features from other games but don't feel like you have to do it one way or the other because "the other guys do it that way". I know an awful lot of MMO's that tried to copy WoW for a long time and they failed because in the end they simply tried to be a clone. Existing WoW players saw little incentive to switch to another game that was simply the same as the one they played....and others who had left WoW didn't want to play another game that was just like the one they left. Be your own captain and go in a direction that you feel will offer a superb product.

If done right I wholeheartedly believe this game has the potential to be a much larger economic success than Naval Action will ever be. It can appeal to a much larger audience globally and with more varied play styles. As Naval Action goes down the path of more and more time investment needed it appeals to a narrower and narrower segment of players. I just hope the Devs realize the potential economic success they can have with NA2 and dedicate some serious effort into it.

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1 hour ago, Blackjack Morgan said:

....various team vs team modes 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, 25v25, you get the idea.....battles based off BR to offer various ships and tactical choices in battles....

 

I was very happy with the Sea Trial Battle ballancing. It was based on cannoncount as far as i know.

So the ship count didnt need to be even. Also great small battles happend, where a bigger ship fought several smaler ones. FUN!

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On 5/30/2017 at 7:27 AM, RAMJB said:

I disagree on many levels on the introduction of "national" lines spread along tiers.

First it forces development of a lot of ships that a small team can't do. One ship per tier per nation at least, assuming 3 nations to begin with (France, UK, Spain) and 10 tiers, would mean 30 ship models. FAR too much.

Second, "tiering" shapes up gameplay in a way that's not conductive with the immersive/historical aspect of the fighting. The expectations of "tier V having to be much better than tier III" in a game where there are no made-up artificual values to be toyed with means you need a very specific tree of ships to place at the corresponding tiers. Given how limited and difficult at times, to reach historical blueprints are, that's a problem - the developer would probably struggle to find adequate ships to adequate distribute across the levels. And at the end of it all one has to remember that naval tech didn't progress hugely in that time - meaning later ships weren't neccessarily more powerful than prior ones, adding even more layers of complexity to the problem.

Finally a "tiered" system would probably make people expect "tiered" matches. If you're Tier 4 you won't expect to see tier 9s. While that's totally necessary in a game like WoT or WoWS given that the vehicles at high tiers most of the time can't even be damaged by low tier ones while being one-shotted in return, it's NOT necessary here. I've got dozens of videos of the Sea Trials era including some of myself playing an 8 gun Lynx in pretty large battles against enemies in Victories and having not only a ton of fun at it, but also being very succesful at it. Obviously a 1v1 lynx vs Surprise should never happen in a game like this, ships should have battleratings and a battlerating-balanced matchmaker. But with that, and making all ships handle as they should (which is a trademark of this game), there's no need for tiers AT ALL

A good gameplay instance of what I say is Fractured Space where your starting ships are perfectly able to go into battle against anything other players have, from the get go, with perfect chances to do very well.

Progression system?. Yes. Unlock system? Yes.

but Tiers? .... NO, please

And national trees?....down the line when there are a lot more ship models, maybe. For the time being, I don't think there are enough of them to warrant division by nations.

I don't think my post mentioned tiers of any kind, just the separated national ship lines. Its not about tiers, just having separate national lines that you can progress through like 7th -> 6th ->5th ->4th etc etc for the different nations. Even the US which is the relative newcomer during the age of sail has a nice spread of ships to choose from. I whole heartedly agree that tiers should not be in this game as having smaller ships mixed in with the bigger ones is what makes naval action exciting.

Edited by Kleinburger

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I started in Sea Trials in December 2014 and loved it. Just bring that back - including a small chance (~ 5% of time) of the storm maps, please! - and slap some non-placedholder UI on top. It will be a fantastic game, I'm really looking forward to it, and I think it will help bring a lot of new blood to the system/franchise.

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As long as the game encourages people to use all types of ships in battle, we will have something truly special here.

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Would be cool to have different types of battles to enter 

25 v 25 Trafalgar's, 12v12, 4v4. etc 

Something like that, and maybe add the option to pick, All Rates 7-1, 6-7, 5-4. 3-1. 

So many cool things you can do with arena, can't wait to see how it turns out. 

 

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I agree with many written suggestions.
Sincerely thinking about how it was Sea Trials and the actual NA, i think the game has moved in the direction that I do not like. NA is an MMO (I've learned this sigle) for clans, full of bonuses and practically impossible to do pvp (also because of 5 min join).

Returning to a possible NA2 (or Legends), in a game without the interaction between OW and battle-rooms will only benefit, excluding all those ganking-log-outs.
You might have different scenarios, with different "maps" and different objectives, not just a team deathmatch.

Some ideas (examples):

  • Map n1 - Team1 must travel gold in a port; Team2 have to intercept him. We will therefore Team1 have traders + cover and Team2 will have to attack them before they arrive in port.
  • Map n2 - Team1 (frigates) has to intercept some (few) SoL's; simulating that they have been left behind to the main fleet.
  • Map n3 - Very big map with AI whalers (but possibly players too) and several frigates of different Nations (so more teams).
  • etc etc

Just some ideas, working well, perhaps referring at times to really existed battles we will have different contexts. Obviously there will also be even battles 25 vs 25; 4 vs 4, etc etc The "map / battle" duration may vary from map to map.

All this is made up of personal statistics, player rankings (depending on the type of ship), medals, etc.

I am not very convinced of the successor ship's search system. In my opinion, all players should have access to all ships. Depending on the "map" there will be a ship-set.

Obviously no bonuses or similar shit, but instead the possibility to use custom skins (taken from a historical database) and personalized setting of men on board and loaded weapons accurate and credible.

Edited by JeanJacques de Montpellier

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12 hours ago, JeanJacques de Montpellier said:

Obviously no bonuses or similar shit, but instead the possibility to use custom skins (taken from a historical database) and personalized setting of men on board and loaded weapons accurate and credible.

I strongly agree!

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Steel division 1944 has an interesting system for battle deplyment. Maybe you could start with a zone of control where players could put their ships before the battle begins. In that way no battles would ever be the same.

Another feature could be:

In Red Orchestra2 there is a fixed amount of slots for each type of weapon. Here it could be each type of ships.

Like 3 1st rates, 5 2nd rates 7 3 rd rates and 14 frigates etc. 

Also historical scenarios could be fun. A real trafalgar or battle of Copenhagen etc.

Maybe you can make an advancing system where players are levelling up or loose ranks like the ladder system in Coh2. Low rank means small ships!

So many cool things you could do now that the OW is ruined completely.

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16 minutes ago, fox2run said:

Steel division 1944 has an interesting system for battle deplyment. Maybe you could start with a zone of control where players could put their ships before the battle begins. In that way no battles would ever be the same.

So ... Everyone will position themselves in good wind, suprise suprise. :D 

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1 hour ago, rediii said:

So ... Everyone will position themselves in good wind, suprise suprise. :D 

Redii. Pls go back to boring OW or try steel division before answering in such a non-enlightened way. Tnx.

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Just now, fox2run said:

Redii. Pls go back to boring OW or try steel division before answering in such a non-enlightened way. Tnx.

I tried steel division but it's different than NA.

In NA you have only land and the winddirection. You allways want to have the upwind position too. So if you have neutral wind on the battlefield you want to spawn as far upwind as possible.

In steel division you have treelines, roads, villages/citys and different units with different purposes. In NA you have ships which are supposed to shoot and kill others. No artillery, tanks or infantry who need different kinds of cover etc.

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Depends on how the zones are placed and how the wind is. If you place your ships but don't know where the wind is blowing from, this would add to replayability.

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I would like to see something like Heroes&generals and call it Heroes&Admirals. Skirmish battles combined with a map to conquer would be pretty awesome. It would be naval action lite. Less sailing around, more action. Factions had to be reduced and maybe combined like French&Spain vs. England&Dutch.

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I just hope they do not go down the route of games like World of Warships where you get grouped together with a random group of players and get thrown into a random map where both sides start in similar positions on opposite sides of the map. I am not keen either on a system where you have to rank up through tiers to get to higher rank ships. Make it about the battles rather than working through tiers.

I hope they allow setting up of various scenarios by the players as well as some fixed historical scenarios. Have some open sea battles and some with land in them, bring in shallows on battle maps where certain classes of ships cannot go, some maps can even have forts. Allow different objectives, total destruction of opposing fleet, destroy the fort, escort a treasure ship etc. but most of all allow players design their own scenarios, they dont have to be balanced with exact same numbers on each side. Allow players to experiment by letting them make up their own fleets within certain BR restrictions.

Have a lobby setup where people can join their chosen scenario, give a short description of the scenario and the objectives. Certain scenarios can be timed and others open ended till certain victory conditions are met.

A lot of things I mention above were available in some form over 15 years ago in a game called Age of Sail 2 and if I remember correctly it was quite popular in online or LAN mode apart from the fact that it was very buggy and crashed a lot. With todays computers and internet bandwidth it should be a lot easier.

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On 6/4/2017 at 0:45 PM, Blackjack Morgan said:

Be your own captain and go in a direction that you feel will offer a superb product.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. What you have already given us in combat, is so unique. One has only to look at the latest greatest pirate fantasy game, Skull and Bones, to see that Game-Labs have vision.

Naval Action has been around for a few years now, is ostensibly produced on an inferior engine, and yet it still has a startling, engrossing, realistic, Fourth of July, bombastic feeling to the gameplay.

Keep close to your vision. Your love of history.  Be stubborn about this.

My only suggestions are to make the GUI as beautiful as the graphics of the game. Take your inspiration from paintings of the period, from vintage manuscripts.  Don't look to other games for your inspiration, look to your vision. Look to history.

I can't wait to see what you come up with.

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