victor Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 (edited) I post here what I posted in another thread in answer to the request of the devs to give constructive feedback on what does not work after the patch. The patch has it's light and flaws (I like some things and do not like others) but it seems clear to me that the main problem we are facing it that a huge "stagflation" (depression of the internal demand of goods due to the fact that people does have enough money to buy them) is harming the players progression (and fun) after the big patch. This is in my opinion THE "big problem" of the game after the mega patch. When you realize that, than you will realize also how to solve it: end the austerity and shift the economic model of the game towards a "MODERATE inflation". Which means - more rewards (gold, marks?) for sinking players in OS, - more gold (and item drops) for doing PVE missions (allowing up to 5th rank ships solo maybe) - more gold (and item drops) from chasing IAs in OS - less costs for harvesting resources and for setting up a manufacturing facility. This will solve a LOT of problems with just "a few" changes and tweaks, that you can easily provide with hotfixes. Edited May 29, 2017 by victor 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Hornblower Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 Agree, the time sink just to acquire cannons alone is brutal. It's unfriendly for the casual player; unless you have a lot of time to devote to this game, casual players will quickly leave, once they realize how slow it is to acquire money. Last two days, I've been able to play more than usual, but going forward I won't have the time to grind out missions to gt gold, that after a long period gets me 8th class cannons! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norfolk nChance Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 (edited) [Victor] At the moment, I must disagree with your observation. If you posted this note in two weeks’ time I would whole heartedly agree with the state of the economy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stagflation I assume you know this, but for others interested. Time is the one component missing to make it stagflation. If you want maybe a real-world example of what NA as now. Am thinking the View from an East German citizen just after the wall came down. The Patch 10.00 roll out was I think Wed 24th May so six days including today. If wrong let me know. The quote “depression of the internal demand of goods due to the fact that people does have enough money to buy them”. Is not quite right. My clan [ELITE] and I we haven’t really been pulling out all the stops but getting used to playing all together again. So, trading and a bit of missions ganking etc. Not hardcore focus… Our cash pile is growing we are working to a plan. The Dev’s will tweak but even so we are just getting into the swing of things. I want the same L’O as you do and other things. It will take time for me to get. There is actually no depression at all. The economy just hasn’t started to get rolling momentum yet. But it is rolling all the same. Now what we are seeing is player depression from needing something that he’s being used to having and replacing easily for the past year. That’s what we are looking at. If I said, remember when you first started… You seriously can’t, rose tinted glass cloud our view. We need to ask an absolute brand-new player that understands economics… You see what I’m pointing at? The second part “harming the players progression (and fun) after the big patch This you are spot on. Fun Factor is not an economic term, but ask most adults how they felt in 2008 fun might not be top of the list. The Brand-New Player doesn’t suffer from our past addiction. He’s in a new and exciting world to explore. His fun factor I’d guess might be higher than us old dogs… So, seriously is the NA in stagflation or coming off those recession blues? Dev’s Don’t Tweak Yet… I suggest we hold off tweaking. Tomorrow 6 more ports will get coal. WHY? I’m GB Nation, so I need to PB and take it back. It’s part of the game. In REAL LIFE as am sure you are well aware the one big mistake made by Governments is over tweaking the economy when coming out of a recession. We in NA is the same the world for you and me started six days ago only. Let the true or real problems of the NA system try to surface more… Two weeks, that’s all… Norfolk nChance (Inv Banker in the AoS) Edited May 29, 2017 by Norfolk nChance 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Witch Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 (edited) The Devs really should lower the cannon prices on shop at least until the player economy is vibrant. making shop cannons half prices for a week or two while crafters get cannon industry going is not a game breaker. At least lower the price of the lower end medium cannons so there is a few options that wont break poor players banks. Edited May 29, 2017 by Rebel Witch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victor Posted May 29, 2017 Author Share Posted May 29, 2017 3 hours ago, Norfolk nChance said: [Victor] At the moment, I must disagree with your observation. If you posted this note in two weeks’ time I would whole heartedly agree with the state of the economy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stagflation I assume you know this, but for others interested. Time is the one component missing to make it stagflation. If you want maybe a real-world example of what NA as now. Am thinking the View from an East German citizen just after the wall came down. The Patch 10.00 roll out was I think Wed 24th May so six days including today. If wrong let me know. The quote “depression of the internal demand of goods due to the fact that people does have enough money to buy them”. Is not quite right. My clan [ELITE] and I we haven’t really been pulling out all the stops but getting used to playing all together again. So, trading and a bit of missions ganking etc. Not hardcore focus… Our cash pile is growing we are working to a plan. The Dev’s will tweak but even so we are just getting into the swing of things. I want the same L’O as you do and other things. It will take time for me to get. There is actually no depression at all. The economy just hasn’t started to get rolling momentum yet. But it is rolling all the same. Now what we are seeing is player depression from needing something that he’s being used to having and replacing easily for the past year. That’s what we are looking at. If I said, remember when you first started… You seriously can’t, rose tinted glass cloud our view. We need to ask an absolute brand-new player that understands economics… You see what I’m pointing at? The second part “harming the players progression (and fun) after the big patch This you are spot on. Fun Factor is not an economic term, but ask most adults how they felt in 2008 fun might not be top of the list. The Brand-New Player doesn’t suffer from our past addiction. He’s in a new and exciting world to explore. His fun factor I’d guess might be higher than us old dogs… So, seriously is the NA in stagflation or coming off those recession blues? Dev’s Don’t Tweak Yet… I suggest we hold off tweaking. Tomorrow 6 more ports will get coal. WHY? I’m GB Nation, so I need to PB and take it back. It’s part of the game. In REAL LIFE as am sure you are well aware the one big mistake made by Governments is over tweaking the economy when coming out of a recession. We in NA is the same the world for you and me started six days ago only. Let the true or real problems of the NA system try to surface more… Two weeks, that’s all… Norfolk nChance (Inv Banker in the AoS) You must be a German banker. I know you will undesrtand the answer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norfolk nChance Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 [Victor] great reply, but just an old British Investment Banker of the very worse kind. Just trying to scrape a living... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 Problem is not patch but wipe. Perhaps redeemable ships should come with cannons? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenet Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 Perhaps NPC ships up to 6th-Rate should be Capturable with their Cannons in Open World AI - so that Fighting Captains have a fair reward for the huge risks they take at the start? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yar Matey Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 (edited) Really great post with great solutions to solve our problems. however, I think cannon prices need a large adjustment. Cannon prices should remain very high on the 1,2 and 3rd tiers. Smaller caliber guns should be much cheaper. Large caliber guns should be expensive as they are the ones that go on 1st 2nd and 3rd rate ships. Edited May 30, 2017 by Yar Matey 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vllad Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 I don't think you can trust the opinion of veteran players who are trying to get back to where they were pre-wipe. Their are many new players in my guild this go around and they are having a blast. They aren't trying to buy guns to fit into 5th rates since they don't have the levels yet to sail them. To be qualified to comment on the difficulty of the cash grind hopefully you weren't one of the players who cashed in his exp and started from scratch as if you were a new player. This thread seems to be more about "why is it so difficult to get back where I was pre-wipe" then it is about how the game actually works today. Don't forget on release they are considering that everyone starts from scratch again! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victor Posted May 30, 2017 Author Share Posted May 30, 2017 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Vllad said: I don't think you can trust the opinion of veteran players who are trying to get back to where they were pre-wipe. Their are many new players in my guild this go around and they are having a blast. They aren't trying to buy guns to fit into 5th rates since they don't have the levels yet to sail them. To be qualified to comment on the difficulty of the cash grind hopefully you weren't one of the players who cashed in his exp and started from scratch as if you were a new player. This thread seems to be more about "why is it so difficult to get back where I was pre-wipe" then it is about how the game actually works today. Don't forget on release they are considering that everyone starts from scratch again! Not so much mate. I'm already back in my business in the game as before the patch. For an experienced player making money is easy (almost) as before. Just a little bit slower. The actual difference is that before I could make good money also with missions NOW I have to do mostly with trade stuff (which is more boring). Since newbies - to gather gold - are more into missions stuff than into trading (so it happened to me when I was a newbie myself), maybe you'll see which is my actual point. Edited May 30, 2017 by victor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norfolk nChance Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 (edited) It's a hard call to make, [Victor]s OP you can't really argue with it. I tried to show TIME, with the economy just hasn't had enough space to gain traction. The huge increase in cannon prices is reflected perfect in the wiki link I provided. Read [Causes] about a third of the way down opening sentence. Familiar right..? Does the Brand-New player feel the same price shock of the cannons as you or I? I don't believe so. [Vllad] opening sentence is my belief what NA economy is currently in a Player Depression not an economic one. On the Test Bed I tried to do my ALT from scratch. Didn't take the cash XP etc. I had more fun with that than I have now at RA, craft 50 XP-ing up a Surprise. I just didn't care about the leveling or cost of cannons as a returned newbie. It was fun but hard work. Am thinking a COMPLETE and total wipe might not be a bad thing with no cash redeemable nothing. With an unsual fun factor spike side effect for old sea dogs... Edited May 31, 2017 by Norfolk nChance 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vernon Merrill Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 Just my .02 doubloons, but I think you'll start to see prices on most materials start to come down in the next week or so... As stated before, everyone is focused on getting their clan-mates up and running with ships/cannons/etc. Once people have ships outfitted, excess production will filter down into the market... After all, what does one do if they can craft 500 cannons/day if their mates only need 100? Same with ships, especially since dock space is extremely expensive these days and not many people can just store 10 extra ships... Even ship-builders need to get a return on unused labor hours at some point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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