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Big Patch #10: Map / Coordinates Feedback [Heavily Moderated]

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The Red Duke    6,298

There's a map and there's a compass. Half the work done. Rest is up to the will of the player to learn 3 things: distances, speed and course planning.

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Sir Texas Sir    3,660
8 minutes ago, Powderhorn said:

I don't know why people need an external map.

There is one in the game.  It is the M key.

Cause there is no way to plot the course and heading on that map.  Hell there aren't even long/lats lines on it any more to compare with a real map. 

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Ned Low    324
6 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

There's a map and there's a compass. Half the work done. Rest is up to the will of the player to learn 3 things: distances, speed and course planning.

Compass is hidden behind the map. Put it on the top of the map and we are good. Understand we have teens playing this game and maybe even kids. Casual players are not expert sailors. This game runs on population, and not on hardcore navigation how blind are you?

Edited by Ned Low

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Pada    560

Love the hardcore navigation. Back how it used to be. :wub:

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Smithy    134

does F11 still give coords? if so you should probably make it so this is not viisble to player who is reporting if you want to go the route of making it difficult to navigate.

otherwise you have not changed anything we all just F11'd before to get that info and alt tab out to one of these website maps to find where we were. so all this really does is make things more awkward, again.

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maturin    5,454
4 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Cause there is no way to plot the course and heading on that map.  Hell there aren't even long/lats lines on it any more to compare with a real map. 

Just eyeball it.

It ain't pretty, but it works if you try it.

I promise you I have no particular skill or ability in this regard.

Hell, hold a protractor to the screen if you need to. Fold a piece of paper in half. That's 45 degrees. Accurate enough for most purposes.

 

Quote

Cause there is no way to plot the course and heading on that map.  Hell there aren't even long/lats lines on it any more to compare with a real map. 

Did they really remove the lat/lon lines? That's a bit unnecessary.

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maturin    5,454
14 minutes ago, Hodo said:

There were other ways to mark latitude and longitude information.   

Dead reckoning, I told you. In modern terms, inertial navigation. Start at a known point and track your speed and heading from that known point. Exactly what BurningSail.com does for us.

Without a chronometer, methods of celestial navigation were more the province of mathematicians and surveyors who could sit at comfy campsite and wait for the proper weather and heavenly bodies to appear, then run through rigorous calculations far beyond the education of most sea captains. That's how you get a chart of Newfoundland. 

 

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By 1725, the time James Cook charted Newfoundland, which is roughly 75 years BEFORE this games estimated timeline.  Most of the flat world believers had been proven wrong, as Christopher Columbus had sailed across the Atlantic almost 300 years prior.

It was common knowledge that the Earth was round far before Columbus...

To restate this for you: You don't need to know the Earth is round to make a map of your city. You don't need to be able to find longitude through celestial navigation at sea in order to make highly accurate charts of landmasses. If Cook sailed out of sight of his beautifully-drawn Newfie headlands without keeping track of his heading or speed, he was hello kittyed.

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The Red Duke    6,298
17 minutes ago, Ned Low said:

Compass is hidden behind the map. Put it on the top of the map and we are good. Understand we have teens playing this game and maybe even kids. Casual players are not expert sailors. This game runs on population, and not on hardcore navigation how blind are you?

Played plenty of 1939-1945 air war sims ( longitude was finally "discovered" ) to know that a map and compass and attention to landscape can lead me to objetive and back ( hopefully before the fuel runs out because I messed up my navigation ).

One of them is still played regularly by a large population decade after launched.

What is your point again ? No map ? No compass ? Up is north, down is south, you can figure the rest.

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Just now, Powderhorn said:

I don't know why people need an external map.

There is one in the game.  It is the M key.

The M key only says whats there, not where it is.

 

26 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I don't have to use team speak to play the game, but a solo or new player will have to use some source to figure out how to navigate in game.  

Even back than they where able to get there coords, it wasn't just latitude and most ships had very good navigation charts of the main sea lanes to go by once they get these coors.  No one is saying pin point dot on the map GPS.  Which we didn't even have a dot, you still had to look the coorsd up and figure there location.  You don't want it to be as accurate than just drop the last part.  So that what was 72.35 would instead be 72.3 so you don't have an exact location.  Just removing every thing some one could use to navigate in game is going backwards.

I'm thinking getting rid of Longitude and latitude is their way of keeping people of the high seas and getting to go along the coastlines which is where they will find more PVP.

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Cecil Selous    337

I don't get the fuss about only using the ingame map and ingame compass? It is simple isn't it? Even a kid should be able to do this. North is up and east is right, tadaaaa. In the early days of EA we also sailed to Bermuda or Carriacou from Kingston without major problems. Nobody complained. Though they could bring the grid back. It just looks better.

For a final map I would also like to have some drawing tools or other navigation aids, that you have to use manually. But for the moment it is absolutely enough and again, I don't get the outrage about it.

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6 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

Played plenty of 1939-1945 air war sims ( longitude was finally "discovered" ) to know that a map and compass and attention to landscape can lead me to objetive and back ( hopefully before the fuel runs out because I messed up my navigation ).

One of them is still played regularly by a large population decade after launched.

What is your point again ? No map ? No compass ? Up is north, down is south, you can figure the rest.

No you cannot figure the rest. Being able to tell your longitude and latitude is critical to navigation. Columbus just had a compass and thought he found India, he didn't.

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King of Crowns    392
Just now, Bobzillah said:

i even wish they would remove F11 cause that stil gives cords ,total sailing in the dark is the only pure way to go.

don't forget to jumble up the map as well. map is to easy

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admin    28,086

the coordinate conversation can be closed Captains. We released the game without them 80000 players played without them and were happy.
we tested it with coordinates too and i don't like it. 

Getting lost is a magic moment. And we plan to stick to this decision now.

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maturin    5,454
1 minute ago, admin said:

the coordinate conversation can be closed Captains. We released the game without them 80000 players played without them and were happy.
we tested it with coordinates too and i don't like it. 

Getting lost is a magic moment. And we plan to stick to this decision now.

What about the lat/lon gridlines on the map?

There are worth keeping purely for aesthetic reasons.

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Sir Texas Sir    3,660
13 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

Played plenty of 1939-1945 air war sims ( longitude was finally "discovered" ) to know that a map and compass and attention to landscape can lead me to objetive and back ( hopefully before the fuel runs out because I messed up my navigation ).

One of them is still played regularly by a large population decade after launched.

What is your point again ? No map ? No compass ? Up is north, down is south, you can figure the rest.

You forget something very key, this isn't a simulator now is it?  Even if it was we should have all the tools needed to navigate the seas of that time, but we don't.  Not every one is an expert navigator/boyscout what ever.  Hell I was a boyscout and former Navy and I can't figure out navigation cords half the time when I started the game.   It took me a long time and when they added the coords it helped alot for me to read the map and check the Long and Lats to get a better understand.  You want to know what?  Cause that wasn't my job in the Navy it was some one elses.

Hell I don't even use Coords any more cause I been sailing most of the map for almost a year and half now.  Though I'm not a new player or some one that just started the game.   Though even than I check the coords ever once in a while when on long sails in open water and adjust it to get to places like Kidds from Atwoood and back.  You know stuff they actually did back at that time.  I wasn't exactly on dot, but once i got close enough to see land I knew where I was.  Ya'll are acting like we need to hug the coast line all the time.  Sorry that is not age of sailing, not this age the game is based in.  Maybe if I was just some fisher man that is staying close to his home port I would do that.

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JollyRoger1516    705
3 minutes ago, admin said:

the coordinate conversation can be closed Captains. We released the game without them 80000 players played without them and were happy.
we tested it with coordinates too and i don't like it. 

Getting lost is a magic moment. And we plan to stick to this decision now.

Apart from the fact that you get lost in the world and not on the map so removal of the grid does nothing to further getting lost - why wasn't there just an option added to let people switch of grid and GPS?!?! This would have very easily appeased both factions on the matter. So far this patch contains a lot of lazy development that is bound to piss people off in completely unnecessary places.

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Borch    401
6 minutes ago, admin said:

the coordinate conversation can be closed Captains. We released the game without them 80000 players played without them and were happy.
we tested it with coordinates too and i don't like it. 

Getting lost is a magic moment. And we plan to stick to this decision now.

I dont know if bottles were changed but since it will be much harder to find wrecks the loot from them should be also better now.

 

Also bringing grid back wouldnt hurt.

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Sir Texas Sir    3,660
1 minute ago, Borch said:

I dont know if bottles were changed but since it will be much harder to find wrecks the loot from them should be also better now.

 

Also bringing grid back wouldnt hurt.

I just opened one and it looks like it's right at Barrcoas port.  I'll have to wait until I have more crew/money to sail a bigger cargo ship of my cutter to see whats in it.  Not in that area. was in Little Inuguaa when I opened it up.

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8 minutes ago, admin said:

the coordinate conversation can be closed Captains. We released the game without them 80000 players played without them and were happy.
we tested it with coordinates too and i don't like it. 

Getting lost is a magic moment. And we plan to stick to this decision now.

What didn't you like about it?

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10 minutes ago, maturin said:

What about the lat/lon gridlines on the map?

There are worth keeping purely for aesthetic reasons.

+1

and for the record I am one of those who asked for GPS to be ended.....but gridlines should stay.

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27 minutes ago, Hodo said:

He is attempting to stick to his guns, no matter how wrong he maybe.  I can appreciate that even if I and most of the others who actually play this game and sail out of sight of the coastline completely agree he is wrong.  

 

I have no problem with people sticking to their guns, but it would be nice to know the reasoning behind it. 

7 minutes ago, Suppenkelle said:

Thank you for reinstalling navigational skills! :)

They didn't actually reinstall navigational skills. Navigational skills would involve charts, compass, sextant and chronograph.  What the game has now is coastal piloting and dead reckoning. Fortunately they didn't also include currents. Or did they?

Edited by The Old Pretender
spelling

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