Alternatives to the removal of endresult screen

[Liq]

The upcoming change regarding the removal of any endresult screen after battles is, in my opinion, the biggest change made for quite a while. It will completely change the way we have to think about battles, when to engage someone, etc. I might just be too narrowminded to see how that change could work in the future, I geuss we'll have to test it.
However, I've got a few concerns and collected alternatives to the removal of the endresult screen, since, as I said, that would change the gameplay and possibly harm the game experience for lots of players.

First, let me explain why I think the removal of a 'safe' position after a battle is not a good idea. 

@admin explained the effect the open world with its fast travel has on battles in a post of december last year.

Quote

If you escaped the battle you no longer will be placed in the same spot in the open world - if you escaped you escaped. No need to try to give someone a second chance to get you. To do so we will give the player the option to either exit to the open world or teleport him to the certain friendly port (for example nearest friendly port).  That's what would real life captain would do in case of certain danger - try to escape to the nearest friendly port. Thus the player will have lets say 5 mins to decide if he wants to exit to the OW, if he did not make this choice he will be escape to port. 

Now, with the changes being made, you will get kicked out back to open world after any and might present yourself as an easy target. Around a nation's capital that's supposedly something good, as that area should be safe. However, it will most likely not only affect the waters around a nation's capital. 90 minutes battletime (lets say 60 minutes, the length of an average battle), is still more than enough time to cover a very big distance in the open world. At this point, the side having more friends will 'win' after the battle.

I also see the upcoming changes to, in some extent, promote ganking. Let me explain:
A group of a few heavy Lineships or heavy Frigates is cruising around. But they also have a few super fast ships whose aim is to simply trap someone in battle and not actually fight him. Let's make an example: A group of 4 3rd rates and two fast Rattlesnakes meets a lone Constituion. Now, the most logical thing to do is to send in the rattlesnakes to tag the Constitution, since the 3rd rates most likely are not going to keep up with the Constitution. Inside the battle, the two Rattlesnakes have absolutely no interest in engaging the Constitution. They escape, knowing that after 15 minutes the Connie will automatically get kicked out to open world, where the Rattlesnakes buddies, the 4 3rd rates, are already spread out to catch the Connie. I tried to illustrate the situation using my awesome Gimp skills (lol).

 

 

Removing the battle result screen will result in numbers always being the winning side, not caring wheter the heavy ships could actually catch up with the opponent side or not, as long as they got some super fast taggers. This is a very severe issue.

Suggestions
In another thread, where we collected a few thoughts regarding teleports in general (here), a few suggestions regarding alternatives to the removal of the battleresultscreen were made. Here are a few of them. If you have any more, please post them below.

1) Standardize Signaling Perk (and / or tweak it)
The easiest fix to this issue would be to standardize the Signaling perk. Personally, I've always thought of Signaling with its current mechanics to be the best RoE.
This would mean that any battles where the attacking side has more BR than the side being attacked are open to join for the defenders. Maybe even tweak it so that the side being attacked gets a bonus of 15-20% additional BR that can join the battle.

2) Endresultscreen depending on the battle
Another suggestion is to allow a battle result screen if the attacking side has less or equal BR than their targets. This should prevent any major ganking in big numbers in hostile waters. However, this would still not fix the situation for the case I posted above (4 3rd rates with their two rattlesnakes attacking a connie).

3) Allow a teleport after the 3rd consecutive battle
A ship escaping a battle would get kicked back to open world just to find the next targets to deal with. This could happen over and over again, as happened to @Jeheil before (explained here). He got pulled into combat 6 times in a row, and he felt like being griefed, as he knew it was just wasting time. Maybe, after a certain amount of escaping in battle and having proved to having escaped, there should be a possibility to also escape from any danger from the Open World, as in a teleport back to port.
After all, this is a game, and at some point Life has a few words to say (you know, the world outside of videogames.. friends and all that). Wasting hours where nothing is being achieved by anyone is not doing any good.

4) Invisibility / Invulnerability timer (suggested by @Powderhorn below)
Add an invisibility and/or invulnerability timer after a battle so players are given a chance to escape from a revenge fleet. They could still spread out though.

5) Embed tow function to battle instance (suggested by @The Red Duke below)
Embed the tow-to-nearest-port feature to the battle instance, so you could teleport to port from battle once every 3 hours. Saves Port Battle fleets and good for calling it a night in general.

I just feel like removing the battle result screen will hurt the gameplay a lot.

Please share your opinions.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Liquicity

[Hethwill]

Given there's no more teleporting, we must assume solution must:

- not use teleports other than the "tow ship" with cooldown

- must not allow hiding inside for more than 15 minutes.

I'd say we should be able to use the Tow Ship from the instance once BATTLE OVER. Cooldown as normal instead of complicating more.

Any power-gamer would simply attack anyone in sight, runaway just to unlock the 3rd consecutive battle.

 

 

[Liq]

4 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

I'd say we should be able to use the Tow Ship from the instance once BATTLE OVER. Cooldown as normal instead of complicating more.

So where is the difference to teleporting to port from battleresult screen? Still teleporting involved.

5 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

Any power-gamer would simply attack anyone in sight, runaway just to unlock the 3rd consecutive battle.

Got a point there.

[Powderhorn]

The best solution I can think of so far is to give people 2.5 minutes of invisibility/no attacking/no getting pulled into battles after a fight so that they can exit the game without being retagged.  This is enough time to 1.  Let slower computers "catch up," 2.  Look around for the gank, 3.  Safely log off if they so choose.

I know in one of those long chains of "tag, escape, tag, escape, tag, escape," the enemy players simply said, "We have more time than you do.  Don't you need to wake up for work tomorrow?"

Their own skill was insufficient to capture me.  They were relying purely on real-world factors to try to catch me.

[Hethwill]

10 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

So where is the difference to teleporting to port from battleresult screen? Still teleporting involved.

One use only every 3 hours ? Same as OW Tow to port. You'd use the exact same option.

Good for calling it a night if you keep it not used until utmost necessary.

[elite92]

i think admin wrote that the lower-br side of the battle will get a 2 mins invisible timer after the battle. (most of the time the ganked side)

would be also good for hardcore players that go alone in enemy waters and tag many ships (me and my clan win several battles 5 v 20 in front of KPR , Fort Royale and Charlestown). in this way if we manage to survive to this battle we can exit and have a bit of invisible time to reorganize

[maturin]

We should be allowed to log off safely in a battle.

[Anolytic]

16 minutes ago, Powderhorn said:

The best solution I can think of so far is to give people 2.5 minutes of invisibility/no attacking/no getting pulled into battles after a fight so that they can exit the game without being retagged.  This is enough time to 1.  Let slower computers "catch up," 2.  Look around for the gank, 3.  Safely log off if they so choose.

At first look, this is the only viable solution that I can see, other than keeping the battle results screen like it was before we got the TP to nearest friendly port option. While I am of course willing to test the no-battlescreen-option for a while, I predict its imminent failure. I simply do not see it as sustainable gameplay wise. Even for hardcore players with few RL commitments, the consequences are severe. Especially to players who have their home in the Lesser Antilles, where ports are close together and capitals practically on top of each other.

However, to your suggestion, this is its critical problem: This same area, with its ports so close together, will have ports where you can, by engineering a battle or attacking AI, move cargo between ports in complete safety created by invisibility/invulnerability should it be set at 2,5 minutes.

In other areas of the map, the 2,5 minutes invisibility/invulnerability will allow you to sail into busy and dangerous ports by creating a battle out of sight of the port, leaving the battle, and sailing the rest of the way in invulnerability modus.

One absolute requirement would be that this invulnerability/invisibility was not granted to players after PvE-fights, only after PvP-fights.

Alternatively I say that BRS should be kept for PvP fights and removed for PvE-fights. 

[Suricato Rojo]

Invisibility is a good option IMHO.
But I would relate the amount of invisibility time to how much did the battle lasted.
So if you manage to escape in 2 min you only have a minimun of invisible time (10 secs). If you finished the battle in 1h 20min you will have more invisible time (let say 1or 2 min).
This solves the PB issue. These are normally long battles, so if you are defeated after 1h 30m you can organisse a coordinated escape of the fleet using 2 minutes of invisibility.

 

[CatSwift]

Just bring back BRS with TP to friendly port and bring back allowing TP to Freeports; then give all forms of TP (BRS, tow, and between any outposts) a shared 3 hour cooldown.

[JeanJacques de Montpellier]

I like the idea of invisibility, i think it is the most plausible solution.

But i suggest that when a player exit from the battle becomes invisible, he can not even see the other ships. They all become invisible. This should avoid from taking advantage of invisibility time to organize surprise attacks.
Invisibility time sufficient: between 2.5 - 5 mins.

Edited May 1, 2017 by JeanJacques de Montpellier

[Slamz]

28 minutes ago, elite92 said:

i think admin wrote that the lower-br side of the battle will get a 2 mins invisible timer after the battle

Have to really think out the grief scenarios of this.

Lower BR attacks higher BR either to tie him up (waiting for allies to show up) or just to grief him. Low BR runs away and then gets invisibility which should help him line up for another tag -- the victim can't see him to avoid him! So maybe rather than "low BR gets invis" it's "defending side gets invis". Tagger never gets invis, tagee always get it, regardless of BR.

Or I have my friend on another team attack me. I then run away and pop out and use the invis to snoop around and line up a perfect hit on someone. Even if there's a delay on when I can attack, the fact that I had 2 minutes to close in and line up means they're probably not going to get away.

 

Removing invis on exit was meant to solve these kinds of problems.

I has another idea:

The exit screen gives you a map of your immediate area. Within a certain radius of where you got attacked, you can click and it will just put you there. You have, say, 30 seconds to decide. If you fail to pick a spot then it will drop you at the point you got attacked. (Popping up a map and giving you a point to click on seems reasonably easy to implement and seems harder to grief. Even if you wanted to use it to attack someone, clicking on the map is not going to give you the speed or precision that a 2-minute run up would.)

Edited May 1, 2017 by Slamz

[Bach]

46 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

One use only every 3 hours ? Same as OW Tow to port. You'd use the exact same option.

Good for calling it a night if you keep it not used until utmost necessary.

If you were in battle Sputh of KPR and decided to call it a night or hit tow due to consecutive battles the system would put you right outside KPR.  Not much of an escape. LOL

[Rebel Witch]

56 minutes ago, Powderhorn said:

The best solution I can think of so far is to give people 2.5 minutes of invisibility/no attacking/no getting pulled into battles after a fight so that they can exit the game without being retagged.  This is enough time to 1.  Let slower computers "catch up," 2.  Look around for the gank, 3.  Safely log off if they so choose.

I know in one of those long chains of "tag, escape, tag, escape, tag, escape," the enemy players simply said, "We have more time than you do.  Don't you need to wake up for work tomorrow?"

Their own skill was insufficient to capture me.  They were relying purely on real-world factors to try to catch me.

Having to log off of the game just to avoid getting ganked or attacked into a second, third etc battle just because you successfully escaped the first tag is not a very common sense idea.

I really thought they did a smart job by giving players the option to escape to nearest port, if you escaped the battle, why not let you actually escape? You also had the option to go back to ow and take your chances.

The only other solution i can think of is give ships exiting pvp battles the "OPTION" to stay invisible longer to a max of 2 minutes. That way they can try to escape in OW since they already escaped the 1st battle. Or they can log off too. Slower computers really get hurt by this so maybe 2 and a half minutes?

I think the other parties involved should get some kind of notification if the other player log off that way we avoid having players sit there wasting time when the battle is essentially over.

[Bach]

No matter what you do to fix this it's going to get gamed to some advantage. The more complex you make your solution the more it gets gamey.  It needs to be simple and basic to avoid most exploitation.  

I like Maturin's solution above. Just let us log out in the battle. At the 15 min kick out mark, seeing that no one leaves the battle, the camping players will know not to waste more time. Later the player that logged out has to return at the same spot. No free teleports or safe passages. Just a way to quit for the night, go to dinner table because your mom is pissed off or otherwise.  No one is forced to play or to wait more than 15min from the end.

[Serk]

2 minutes ago, Rebel Witch said:

 

I think the other parties involved should get some kind of notification if the other player log off that way we avoid having players sit there wasting time when the battle is essentially over.

I'm really not looking forward to have a huge chunk of the server population dropping anchor here and there just to wait for some poor guy to leave his battle

A nice positive effect on gameplay that the "TP to closest friendly outpost" had was to stop people to just drop anchor and camp known battle location for as long as 90 minutes instead of doing something more productive. The chance the target would just leave to a friendly port would discourage this counterproductive behaviour.

Even so, some still did it despite the fact it could very well be a waste of time, so just imagine the effect of they are  now certain that a target will get back in OW.

Maybe a "TP to closest free town" could do it? Without the ability to built an outpost there, you will still need to sail your prize back to you own base sooner than later. 

[Bach]

8 minutes ago, Rebel Witch said:

Having to log off of the game just to avoid getting ganked or attacked into a second, third etc battle just because you successfully escaped the first tag is not a very common sense idea.

I really thought they did a smart job by giving players the option to escape to nearest port, if you escaped the battle, why not let you actually escape? You also had the option to go back to ow and take your chances.

The only other solution i can think of is give ships exiting pvp battles the "OPTION" to stay invisible longer to a max of 2 minutes. That way they can try to escape in OW since they already escaped the 1st battle. Or they can log off too. Slower computers really get hurt by this so maybe 2 and a half minutes?

I think the other parties involved should get some kind of notification if the other player log off that way we avoid having players sit there wasting time when the battle is essentially over.

I don't really agree.  Just because you escaped the first battle in a defensive tag or a purposely bad NPC tag doesn't mean you escaped.  It didn't in real life either. USS President (Connie) ran from a British squadron.  It out ran all ships but HMS Endyiomen. In the ensuing running fight President surrendered but Endyiomen lost rigging. In the night USSPresident escaped Endyiomen. But it ran into the rest of the squadron in the morning as it was still being hunted in that area. It was captured by the British.  Had that first escape when Captain Decateur tricked HMS Endyiomen's captain been rewarded by a teleport to Boston Harbour history would be very different.  Anyway, the point of this isn't a history review. It's that players can attain a technical "escape" by a variety of means that aren't very fair to the hunters. Rewarding such gameyness with a free teleport isn't a great thing.  

[Liq]

7 minutes ago, Bach said:

I don't really agree.  Just because you escaped the first battle in a defensive tag or a purposely bad NPC tag doesn't mean you escaped.  It didn't in real life either. USS President (Connie) ran from a British squadron.  It out ran all ships but HMS Endyiomen. In the ensuing running fight President surrendered but Endyiomen lost rigging. In the night USSPresident escaped Endyiomen. But it ran into the rest of the squadron in the morning as it was still being hunted in that area. It was captured by the British.  Had that first escape when Captain Decateur tricked HMS Endyiomen's captain been rewarded by a teleport to Boston Harbour history would be very different.  Anyway, the point of this isn't a history review. It's that players can attain a technical "escape" by a variety of means that aren't very fair to the hunters. Rewarding such gameyness with a free teleport isn't a great thing.  

Difference is, in that situation, the President was facing the squadron, and not only one of them. If the situation was different, aka the USS president only facing one, it wouldn't have been able to call for help through any means. Ingame you can just call for help in chat, and incoming help can cover a very long distance quite quickly. (OW speed vs instance speed).

Edited May 1, 2017 by Liquicity

[Slamz]

The problem with teleport is that this can send you REALLY far away.

What might be good, though, is to say that you can teleport to the nearest friendly port within a certain range. The idea being that if you are playing defense or trading near friendly ports then "escape to port" is an option for you. If you are in enemy territory hunting them then there is no escape option.

You give up that free escape by leaving friendly space.

[Neptune]

There has to be an alternative to what we have right now. People do not have 2-3+ real life hours to keep running when they've technically already escaped in battle. I'm sure after a few times of getting repeat tagged players will get sick of it and just quit. 

I think if we had a long invisibility or invulnerable timer that could work just so you can log off if there is a revenge fleet but I still do not believe it is right to force players out into a revenge fleet. Forcing people to log off and stop playing the game they bought and really want to play is some shoddy mechanics.

People who are going back to history in real life, there was no open world instance and battle instance so you cannot compare the 2. That is why the mechanics can be abused because you can't see what's approaching. Leaving the mechanics as is would be a disaster for this game. 

 

Edited May 1, 2017 by Neptune

[Captiva]

I prefer spawning to a circle that is just beyond the visibility of the nearest enemy ship in battle instance.

As a reward for successfully escaping from battle, the escaping player has the chance to continue his escape, while at the same time the enemy player still has a chance to locate the target again; due to both of them being within the general area of the original battle.

[Fenris]

2 hours ago, Powderhorn said:

The best solution I can think of so far is to give people 2.5 minutes of invisibility/no attacking/no getting pulled into battles after a fight so that they can exit the game without being retagged.  This is enough time to 1.  Let slower computers "catch up," 2.  Look around for the gank, 3.  Safely log off if they so choose.

I know in one of those long chains of "tag, escape, tag, escape, tag, escape," the enemy players simply said, "We have more time than you do.  Don't you need to wake up for work tomorrow?"

Their own skill was insufficient to capture me.  They were relying purely on real-world factors to try to catch me.

Would be maybe the best.

2,5 minutes are maybe too much, 90 seconds would do aswell i think.

[elite92]

the fact is that with 120 sec timer u can exit the battle and log out if u need to go somewhere else(dinner , night) but if u want to play again u have 2 min to reposition ur ship at your favor if in the last battle u were outnumbered (less BR).

more time is too much, less time and u cant log out safely. 120 seconds is the spot (or considering the 15 seconds tagging at least 105 s but 2 min for the sake of safety and lag issue solving).

u should give the inv bonus at the end of the battle checking the BR at the end, not at the start obviusly, no matter who attacks.

forget teleports guys, devs are clear on this point. Naval Action will be hardcore no more magic TPs

[Cmdr RideZ]

Even 3s invisibility would be better than nothing.

A bigger question is, how do you make devs to understand that this development direction was not a good one.

[Grundgemunkey]

how about on leaving a battle you can choose to either enter ow or free tow  to nearest freeport with a 24hr cooldown on that ship . so you cant use that ship for 24 hrs after you tp

also the freeport may not be in a desirable position and may actuallt be further away from  home waters than the battle was

 

Edited May 1, 2017 by Grundgemunkey