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barrydylan

Fredericksburg as Union

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This is actually a really easy battle after you've learned how to exploit it. There are several bugs that seem to happen as a result of the phase changes. And Stuart's calvary gets trapped in the corner and destroyed way too easily. But the real reason I made this thread is because I wanted to share this screenshot with the only people who will appreciate it.

20170407162438_1.jpg

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It would appear you have surrounded the Rebels, damn fine work! Not only overcoming the defensive obstacles but encircling the enemy, my. 

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I found it fairly easy too.  I took about even casualties on my first play through last night in campaign but I found the Northern sector way simpler than I thought it would be.  I pounded the front with like 60 guns and swarmed at it with skrimishers and then surged three divisions around the south side basically four brigades wide and three deep right on the boundary.  Fixed the northern flank with 4 other brigades and dislodged their northern entrenchment with a bayonets charge.  Was shocked I got it done because it was a beat up corps with 1842 muskets.

Down south I again started by sweeping over the southern area.  A two division wheeling movement to the north let me turn the road that runs east west near their supplies into a slaughterhouse as I swept aside their cavalry and got to the wood line with a third division before they could occupy it.  The wheeling divisions then continued to extend around their caves in southern flank.  Brought my second corps into action by putting pressure on their front, but not getting too close as the exchange of fire would be very uneven.  Progressively caved in their Northern flank on the south half of the map and extended around back of the hill.

Only surprise was that they abandoned telepgraph road entirely.  I had pushed them so far off the heights opposite town in the north that they walked up behind me and retook the position for some of the worst fighting I had to do to reclaim it. As I had intended the fighting there as more of a holding action I had honestly expected any of their reserves there to head South.  Reclaimed the supplies and victory points in a nasty fight.  The heights looked like a slaughterhouse.

With all that going on I took telegraph road with about 1,250 cav troops, two brigades of carbines and one melee unit who occupied the point and dismounted.  They were driven back by two infantry brigades that appeared exhausted but did a ton of damage.  Melee cav hit them in the flank the fields around the building and they ran for it.

If I do it again I probably orient a division on the heights to face telegraph road because two moving north to roll up that line would be more than enough.  Was an interesting fight.

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not as bad as the exploits you can do as the Confederates with the phase shifting.

1. You can move units from Prospect Hill to the left and they'll appear in the 3rd phase (Marye's Heights and Telegraph). If you're a minimized army player, this can compensate for a lack of a good third corps. 

2. You can move units from Marye's Heights to Telegraph Road to increase the number there for the last phase (where they'd be useless otherwise at Marye's Heights). Then you can spawn camp all the Union units that come from Marye's Heights. 

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The key is what you do inside the city of Fredericksburg.

My suggestion? Simply demonstrate. Put a bunch of crap troops in the house and a line of artillery out front, and just take the hit. Do not attack. You'll lose hundreds of men, it's better than losing thousands assaulting Marye's Heights. 

As Wright said, put your good troops in a position where the map opens up they are directly positioned to hit Telegraph Road from the Southern Left of the position. 

Voila. The nut is cracked. 

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Not sure why you even have to take the hit on the first day. You can easily clean sweep all of the brigades by walking the south bridge with all of your brigades; the computer isn't smart enough to relocate everything to the south bridge until you're all the way across, and once you're across, the entire zone is 100% cover, so you just walk up to everything and start clubbing people to death. Causing a surrender on the brigade in the town is one brigade you don't have to worry about at Maryes Heights.

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On 4/7/2017 at 8:16 PM, barrydylan said:

This is actually a really easy battle after you've learned how to exploit it. There are several bugs that seem to happen as a result of the phase changes. And Stuart's calvary gets trapped in the corner and destroyed way too easily. But the real reason I made this thread is because I wanted to share this screenshot with the only people who will appreciate it.

20170407162438_1.jpg

 

It's the perfect Canae! Ha, been reading about WWI and the German command's obsession with double envelopments, Good job! I'm about to do it with my beloved blue boys and I hope I can get them through this ill-advised bloodbath of a battle similarly.

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Just fought this one out for myself as Union and it was a total mess with the phase shifting, the worst battle I have played so far. It was confusing as to what part of the battlefield I was on and confederate units seemed to teleport around randomly. 

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On 4/9/2017 at 4:43 PM, Andre Bolkonsky said:

The key is what you do inside the city of Fredericksburg.

My suggestion? Simply demonstrate. Put a bunch of crap troops in the house and a line of artillery out front, and just take the hit. Do not attack. You'll lose hundreds of men, it's better than losing thousands assaulting Marye's Heights. 

As Wright said, put your good troops in a position where the map opens up they are directly positioned to hit Telegraph Road from the Southern Left of the position. 

Voila. The nut is cracked. 

I'm about to start this battle myself.  Was wondering if Marye's Heights is as much as a fool's errand as it was in real life and if I should simply avoid/fix/demonstrate in front of the Rebels here.

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@kjchan I just completed a battle a few days ago and marye's wasn't tough as I thought it would be even on MG.  I used a arty heavy corps. I kept my ord and 20pd batteries in shell range and focused on counter battery fire while I sent 4 12-gun brigades of 6 pd (captured and cheap) up close to pound the far right of the CSA line since only one brigade holds that section. After bombardment, I rushed two cannon fodder brigades into melee to break the line and then pushed me regulars through the hole and enveloped the rest of the CSA line easily.  Just focus on the weakest part of the line and once you are past it, it's easy flanking.  Just keep in mind that the next "phase" the rebels are likely to send several brigades to attack your left flank if your attack is too successful. I had to hold off the counter attack during the last phase of battle with my rookie corps. I lost more men holding the line here then I did assaulting the heights. But I was able to encircle the CSA army and destroy it so it worked out in the end.

Edited by Captain Hutch

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My biggest issue with Fredericksburg is I hate to see my boys die...

I'm procrastinating on my Legendary Union campaign right now because even though I could definitely win the battle and inflict more, possibly much more than I would take, the initial assault would still cause thousands upon thousands of casualties and that's something I find difficult to swallow =(

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12 hours ago, kjchan said:

I'm about to start this battle myself.  Was wondering if Marye's Heights is as much as a fool's errand as it was in real life and if I should simply avoid/fix/demonstrate in front of the Rebels here.

I abhor human wave attacks. A well timed bayonet charge with a cry of Urrah! is one thing, withering fire from well entrenched enemy is another entirely. It is not necessary to waste valuable human lives needlessly. Hold the Rebels in place, nothing more. Put your effort on the far wing, and create a mobile reserve designed to break off from the southern engagement and hammer Telegraph Road from the other side. GL, HF. 

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It isn't necessary to take Marye's Heights in order to win as the Union, if you take Telegraph Road and Prospect Hill.  The CSA on Marye's Heights will stand pat if you move your entire corps to the map edge, tucked up by the river, on the edge that abuts the Telegraph Road map.  Gather them there, and just wait for the timer to run down.  When the Telegraph Road portion of the battle opens up, that entire corps will be available to move on Telegraph Road.

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Fred, thx. To be clear this is the southern edge of the map that youre talking about right? And isnt Telegraph Road the confederate center? Is it weaker than the battle intro advertises?

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I still think there's value in instead looping all the way around north but seems more people find success in just waiting on the next phase. Whatever works for you. :)

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1 hour ago, Hitorishizuka said:

I still think there's value in instead looping all the way around north but seems more people find success in just waiting on the next phase. Whatever works for you. :)

I didnt think about that.  You mean attack Telegraph Hill from the rear essentially?  How long does it take you to move your whole Corps around Marye?

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15 hours ago, Fred Sanford said:

It isn't necessary to take Marye's Heights in order to win as the Union, if you take Telegraph Road and Prospect Hill.  The CSA on Marye's Heights will stand pat if you move your entire corps to the map edge, tucked up by the river, on the edge that abuts the Telegraph Road map.  Gather them there, and just wait for the timer to run down.  When the Telegraph Road portion of the battle opens up, that entire corps will be available to move on Telegraph Road.

Like this, only don't bother losing troops in Fredericksburg, just quickly move them all to the edge of the map from the corner of the deployment zone.

I had Confederates units teleport through my troops between Telegraph Road and Prospect Hill, and ended up having to fight them with one brigade and a bunch of artillery - I was actually lucky that one brigade was there, as it had been chasing a unit that retreated through my lines. The AI also abandoned Prospect Hill near the end of the battle, which gave me the easy win.

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7 hours ago, kjchan said:

I didnt think about that.  You mean attack Telegraph Hill from the rear essentially?  How long does it take you to move your whole Corps around Marye?

All the way around to the far north, attack into the trees and push out the lone brigade there pretty easily, and then use that to flank the entire map. Maybe 1/3 of the first phase to move, 1/3 to start pushing over. By the time the first phase ends you should have cleared half the heights from the back. This lets you naturally keep your main forces together in the second phase when the map opens and all you need to do is have a force move south to block reinforcements along the river. They'll break along your reinforcements and you can eventually transition across yourself in the last phase for the complete wipe out.

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I have actually found that there are two ways to crack the nut that is Marye's heights that don't ruin your force. 

Option A: Swing wide to your right and take the more lightly defended hill and sweep the defenses from the reverse.  Dilemma here is the amount of time and exhaustion on your troops to do so.  Not always the best if you aren't snappy with your movements.  Cavalry can come in handy big time here to help open the engagement and adding enfilade fire anywhere possible.  (note, I love using carbine cavalry to devastating effect whenever possible)

 

Option B: 1 quick charge with 3 brigades on the Confederate brigade on their far right (your left).  The 1st brigade will not succeed but the 2nd or 3 one always will.  I usually build up an assault brigade or two during my play throughs and move them to the Corps I decide to put against Marye's Heights.  These are used here, usually as the 2nd or 3rd brigade as I use one for the start to get the rebels out of the entrenchments.  Then peel back the layers accordingly.  I like to use carbine cavalry to exploit the breech and decimate artillery from the rear.  Also its easy to repulse the enemy counter-attack if you utilize the creek and only requires 2-3 somewhat coherent brigades to hold them back easily.  Always love using water to ruin an enemy charge.

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5 hours ago, Buford Protege said:

I have actually found that there are two ways to crack the nut that is Marye's heights that don't ruin your force. 

Option A: Swing wide to your right and take the more lightly defended hill and sweep the defenses from the reverse.  Dilemma here is the amount of time and exhaustion on your troops to do so.  Not always the best if you aren't snappy with your movements.  Cavalry can come in handy big time here to help open the engagement and adding enfilade fire anywhere possible.  (note, I love using carbine cavalry to devastating effect whenever possible)

 

Option B: 1 quick charge with 3 brigades on the Confederate brigade on their far right (your left).  The 1st brigade will not succeed but the 2nd or 3 one always will.  I usually build up an assault brigade or two during my play throughs and move them to the Corps I decide to put against Marye's Heights.  These are used here, usually as the 2nd or 3rd brigade as I use one for the start to get the rebels out of the entrenchments.  Then peel back the layers accordingly.  I like to use carbine cavalry to exploit the breech and decimate artillery from the rear.  Also its easy to repulse the enemy counter-attack if you utilize the creek and only requires 2-3 somewhat coherent brigades to hold them back easily.  Always love using water to ruin an enemy charge.

I do a combination of both. Sweeping the Confederate left and as the flank develops breaking though on the Confederate right, and ending in a full encirclement.

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I just did at normal, as part of the Union campaign

Similar strategy to others

Sent my left wing around through the forest on the southern edge of the map to hit Prospect Hill from the flank and rear

At Fredericksburg, evacuated everything back across the river and moved the whole right wing to the marshy gap between Telegraph Road and Prospect Hill, and then fed it through the marsh in a narrow column to come at the Telegraph Road VP from the south

I did leave 3 brigades to hold the Fredericksburg bridges, and the CSA did occupy the town and unsuccessfully probe the crossings.

Otherwise the two main attacks do need a continual focus on flank guards while keeping maximum force at the leading edge (two ranks of brigades and the artillery)

This strategy cost me 5,000 casualties from 61,000 total army size to take the Telegraph Road and Prospect Hill VPs for the win

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