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Koro

Some forewarning on the next patch.

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So the new patch is well under way and I thought it would useful to give some warning of what's to come.
It is the Overland Campaign for both sides - and it is a grind unparalled to anything ever seen in the game before. It reflects reality rather well.
For the CSA, the losses will be heavy and the replacements are in short supply. It's important however to maintain a certain amount of units since at Cold Harbor, the lines are immensely long. I had only 1 unit of 2.500 on arrival.
It's impossible to get a screenshot of all of it but on this one, I've got about 20.000 men to defend the entire line:
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/81470188872111585/E31134787AE9C94E4ACF79D6625BC8CF2B39DBBC/
And as you can see, the Union is pushing through the center :).

The Wilderness is the first battle for each, though they are different.
For the Union, you go on the offensive at Brock Road, and I'll warn you in advance to not overextend your lines and mind your flanks. It's not easy to break them
For the CSA, you must find a way to overcome several lines of Union forces in order to capture two fields to the front.

The next is Spotsylvania where for the Union where you get to attack the Mule Shoe. Fairly straight forward - find your favorite place of attack and gun for it. The fortifications are several lines deep so reserves are critical. 
As the CSA, you get to defend Laural Hill, I had 53.000 against 100.000. And you must counterattack to win. If you choose to go to victory. I spent most of the battle wearing them down - the fortifications are quite strong so it's possible to hold on if you have a second line but at some point, you must push forward to win. You can chose either the southern or northern flank to break but not both as you simply don't have enough men.

And then Cold Harbor which I have to say surprised me. As I already spoiled in the beginning of the post, your forces will dwindle.. my army was down to 53.000 arriving at Cold Harbor, split over two corps as the Confederates.
You must probably hold some of the fortifications with skirmishers where you expect the least attacks and somehow manage to hold together a reserve to move to critical points. Realize you cannot hold all the fortifications. I recommend pausing the battle once it opens up to get an overview of how you want your defensive plan to work out. Do not expect to simply be able to sit back and watch the Union break. You must work an active defense.
It was for me one of the most amazing defensive battles I've fought - the highlights where the screenshot where I had to draw on two brigades, one from the north, one from the south of my line, and countercharged in to the flanks of the incoming Union brigades.
Another was when I thought the battle was safe and out of the woods came at least 10 Union brigades of skirmishers and cavalry upon my southern line and broke the first defensive line. My cavalry moved to countercharge and I had to pull more troops from the north and fall back between the victory points and give over lots of ground to free up units. 
Feel free to ask questions if you've got any. I hope livestream the two Union battles leading up to CH tomorrow night.

There are several screenshots recently uploaded on my profile btw, to examine of the new battles.

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4 minutes ago, Wright29 said:

also be sure to keep some money in the bank for Cold Harbor. Refilling supply wagons between days can really add up. 

This. The 20.000 1863 rifles I captured at Laurel Hill helped make sure I didn't run out of money since I could sell almost all of my older rifles and give everyone newer ones :)

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1 minute ago, Koro said:

This. The 20.000 1863 rifles I captured at Laurel Hill helped make sure I didn't run out of money since I could sell almost all of my older rifles and give everyone newer ones :)

but did upgrading make the enemy autoscale to M1 Garands??

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Someone might want to reformat your text - kinda difficult to read grey on white. ;)

Well, nice to know I'll be facing nothing but lots and lots of high-tier rifles.  Wonder what would happen if all my guys were armed with Farmers.

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2 hours ago, The Soldier said:

Someone might want to reformat your text - kinda difficult to read grey on white. ;)

Well, nice to know I'll be facing nothing but lots and lots of high-tier rifles.  Wonder what would happen if all my guys were armed with Farmers.

Updated it to be readable lol. Not sure why it did that.

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3 hours ago, Koro said:


As the CSA, you get to defend Laural Hill, I had 53.000 against 100.000. 

just curious, for these numbers, which difficulty were you on?

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1 minute ago, Wright29 said:

just curious, for these numbers, which difficulty were you on?

Normal.

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1 minute ago, Wright29 said:

just curious, for these numbers, which difficulty were you on?

Actually it turned out there were "only" 82.000 I think. As far as I can tell, it only scales to the troops you actually bring, so it goes down once the map starts.

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Who would have thought that a particular map would have to teach people the basics of Elastic Defense without the underpinnings of how Elastic Defense works? :rolleyes:

Looking forward to it. 

One thing to note, however: are the battles represented as multi-day battles, or several battles in a row? The difference being whether you get rescues and captures inbetween so you aren't wasting potential rescues if you reinforce between days, which is one of the more current problems in the game.

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Elastic defense? I haven't heard of that concept.. is it what I describe?

Anyways, the Wilderness and Spotsylvania are 1-day battles. You are basically interjected in to the middle of one of the events for both sides.

Cold Harbor is 3 days and for the CSA side is likely to extend for the entire duration. It took me more than 3 hours to complete it. 

The Union side can be won and interrupted on more occasions though I cannot tell you exactly which ones. It's just too much to test all options. You guys will have to explore.

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On the English wikipedia, it redirects to Defense in Depth. More commonly used in modern times, as you place infantry on the front, with machineguns to support the infantry in case the enemy tries to achieve a breakthrough. The idea being the machineguns are to suppress the enemy to allow the rest of the line to adjust to the attempted breakthrough.

More to the point in this game: the basic idea that is already put into practice is to place infantry units behind other infantry units instead of going for the wide line. Working under the assumption that the enemy will break through the front at some point, so you put in ways to make the breakthrough cost them.

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Ah yes. You should not work under the assumption that your fortifications will hold up to everything. They are strong but not invincible.

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5 hours ago, Koro said:


Feel free to ask questions if you've got any. I hope livestream the two Union battles leading up to CH tomorrow night.

There are several screenshots recently uploaded on my profile btw, to examine of the new battles.

Thanks so much Koro for this fantastic introduction to the battles! When and where and what time do you do this "Livestream"??

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Just now, civsully1 said:

Thanks so much Koro for this fantastic introduction to the battles! When and where and what time do you do this "Livestream"??

You're welcome. I hope you'll enjoy it. Don't be deterred if you don't succeed at once. Neither Col_kelly or I won on our first attempts at the minor missions.

Not sure it's so relevant with the livestream anymore, I didn't realize the patch would go live today :). If people express an interest, tomorrow around 19.30 Paris Time.

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4 hours ago, Wright29 said:

but did upgrading make the enemy autoscale to M1 Garands??

Now THAT was a clever and witty question to be sure!!!!! Well done Wright29!!! :D

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I can confirm, its a rough ride. I'm barely getting through on Colonel lol. 

Its actually rather impressive how the game reflects this aspect of the Overland Campaign.

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Interesting to hear that you two are playing on Easy/Normal. I've played a couple of campaigns on Hard...But they just aren't fun. The unending hordes of elite and lavishly equipped enemy armies become tedious rather than challenging. One of the decisions one can make in this game is to withdraw rather than press a pointless attack. On hard, the objectively correct decision is almost always to withdraw.

I want to stress: I've managed to win every battle on hard through Chancellorsville. It's certainly possible. However, it is not fun. Battles are rarely won through clever manuevering or bold strategy, but instead by gaming the system to survive the aforementioned AI armies of doom. There's little choice when the alternative is to fight "properly" and lose half or more of your army in every battle.

What do you think, @Koro, @Mr. Mercanto, others? Do you enjoy the higher difficulties, or are they more of a tedious experience? Or something else?

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Just now, Admiral666 said:

Interesting to hear that you two are playing on Easy/Normal. I've played a couple of campaigns on Hard...But they just aren't fun. The unending hordes of elite and lavishly equipped enemy armies become tedious rather than challenging. One of the decisions one can make in this game is to withdraw rather than press a pointless attack. On hard, the objectively correct decision is almost always to withdraw.

I want to stress: I've managed to win every battle on hard through Chancellorsville. It's certainly possible. However, it is not fun. Battles are rarely won through clever manuevering or bold strategy, but instead by gaming the system to survive the aforementioned AI armies of doom. There's little choice when the alternative is to fight "properly" and lose half or more of your army in every battle.

What do you think, @Koro, @Mr. Mercanto, others? Do you enjoy the higher difficulties, or are they more of a tedious experience? Or something else?

Sadly, my little brain can only handle Easy. I can play Historical battle on higher difficulties, and prefer Normal for them. For Campaign, I find anything higher then Easy oppressively difficult. 

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I find normal to be a good, fun challenge. Easy is great when you just want to build the order of battle of your dreams and maintain it throughout. 

 

I feel this digression should be its own thread.

 

And now it is!

Edited by Admiral666
Added link to new thread.

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11 hours ago, Wandering1 said:

Who would have thought that a particular map would have to teach people the basics of Elastic Defense without the underpinnings of how Elastic Defense works? :rolleyes:

Yet with good game mechanics people practice it intuitively as in this game where players do use defensive mobility where the terrain and troops permit it, and the combat dynamics favor falling back to regroup, drawing the enemy into killing grounds, and especially flanking overextended units with fire or more personally..

 

 

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16 hours ago, Koro said:

You're welcome. I hope you'll enjoy it. Don't be deterred if you don't succeed at once. Neither Col_kelly or I won on our first attempts at the minor missions.

 

You're so right... Brock Road was a bit of a arsehole... I tried to flank their left, and then realized that when confederate army arrived... it would mean my army would be split in two... 

Had to redo it so that I flanked their right instead :P even that wasn't exactly a walk in a park... lost 11000 out of 62 thousand. 

Edited by vren55

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On 4/3/2017 at 11:26 AM, Koro said:

For the CSA, you must find a way to overcome several lines of Union forces in order to capture two fields to the front.

... any advice for that Koro? i've tried going left. I've tried going right, neither will get me where I want. I feel like I might actually have to redo the battle... and charge the forest itself to establish a good initial position. 

 

Edit: Nevermind. I figured out a way. It turned out the best way was to bum rush the union's forest position on the Confed right, establish foothold, turn their flank toward the field.

Edited by vren55

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