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Its an cutter this aint potbs it is a side wind sailing ship none ship would go against the wind buy an engine.

 

 

I'm speaking relative to the other ships in the game not relative to reality. If that makes sense. And I don't think the square riggers will point realistically into the wind, although I'd be willing to test that out.

 

Having messed around with the cutter, I'm not sure it points high enough based on what a real fore/aft rig would do.  Speed is a function of how well the wind is being caught in the sails - with the exception of going downwind, at which a square rigger will excel, once you reach a certain point into the wind, the fore/aft vessels should excel over the square rigger.  At the moment, I am not sure that the cutter (I need to go play with the Lynx having noticed it in the cutter) is pointing as high as it could/should before massive speed falloff (say from 6 knots to 2), and in fact may be falling off of top speed too soon as you come up into the wind.

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Clinch    159

Towers-Tactic, sail Lynx as fast as possible to towers, sink Trincs.  Ughh...this is ugly.  Many new testers dont use the smaller ships much at all.

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Towers-Tactic, sail Lynx as fast as possible to towers, sink Trincs.  Ughh...this is ugly.  Many new testers dont use the smaller ships much at all.

 

Unfortunately, when faced with a far superior force in an inferior ship, it's all you can do to have a role, otherwise you get insta-gibbed by half the enemy heavies the moment their in range with brutally accurate fire.

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Herrkurt    0

Ship: Surprise

Issue: Too many cannons

Reason: Assuming it is based on the Surprise featured in the Aubrey Mauturin novels.  The Surprise in game carries 38 cannon total on the sides.  The one in the books is a 28 gun frigate with the ability to mount 2 chasers fore or aft.

What to do:  The illustrated 3 master at the start of each novel has a single gun deck of fourteen guns a side.  You can use that as the model.  38 guns is the class of the Constitution (though the Constitution carried heavier than 12 pound cannon) before it was upgunned to 44.

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BungeeLemming    1,484

The illustrated 3 master at the start of each novel has a single gun deck of fourteen guns a side.  You can use that as the model.  38 guns is the class of the Constitution (though the Constitution carried heavier than 12 pound cannon) before it was upgunned to 44.

Sir you are totally wrong on all you say.

HMS Surprise, the former french corvette L'Unité can indeed mount up to 36 guns. Brits used carronades on the poop and quarterdeck instead of long guns.

The Books of Mr O'Brian do NOT show HMS Surprise on their cover. They show some random maritime drawings.

 

Devs used real plans to create her. In fact all the ships ingame are based on real life plans wich means they are at least 95% accurate on the models. (as modeler you may have to tweak the shiplines in order to make a smooth looking hull without grafical bugs/artifacts)

 

Constitution is  also not a 44 gunner. She even carries 54 guns on the broadside. 32lb Carronades and 24 pound long guns

 

 

edit:

sorry for sounding rude/ impolite.

I totally slipped past a line here O_o.

 

On the subject of the constitution I am feeling confident that I am definately correct. (guncount)

On the Surprise. Well maybe the novelist went ahead and but some of his own salts in his books.

 

I formerly did a lot of research and found that wikipedia is right on their Surprise-side.

 

Unité:

  • 24 × 8-pounder guns
  • 8 × 4-pounder guns

Surprise:

  • 24 × 32-pounder carronades
  • 10 × 32-pounder carronades
  • 2 × 4-pounder guns as chasers

Looks like obrian actually used the unité for Aubrey.

 

Also I feel the film "master and commander" did invent some stories wich are not based on the books. As saying she was old and such.

In reall life the Surprise was indeed a pretty normal "old" ship. (what a sentence)

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Herrkurt    0

Sorry I made the assumption they were using the novels to design it (an assumption made plain in my first response) and that accurate drawings of the historic ship may not be available or the source chosen to represent a ship that has existed in several forms: the captured French vessel which inspired the novels, the ship as described by the novels or even a 38 gun frigate laid down in 1812 of the same name.  Also sorry for assuming that ships would be available with gun ports according to their original plan and not the additions made over the years.  No need for caps or acting rude.  How are you a moderator insulting people like that?

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Harry White    175

Constitution.
The Fore-guns or chasers are blocked by a big piece of wood, shown in images.
I would have used the in-game f11 function, but figures it would have been hard showing the problem with one picture.
 
2m4rbqr.png
 
1rahc5.png
 
jieuix.png

Sorry for the size of the pictures, couldn't find how to re-size them.

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maturin    5,454

Definitely not. Trincomalee, Bellona and Victory would unquestionably have carried royals, as would the brig if it was a warship.

 

It's just that these yards are very light and can be removed or installed in a matter of minutes. So the devs looked at the wrong painting or just made an aesthetic decision.

 

Personally I rather like the look of a ship with t'gallants alone. Or at least, I dislike carrying royals on the mizzen.

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Baggywrinkle    196

Cutter

Problem: When sailing directly downwind then booms should be perpedicular to the hull. Right now they are maybe 45 degrees.

Its a problem because its wrong :)

Fix by changing the code. Simple as that.

 

Not so in reality: although you drop the leeward topmast running backstays forward (hence the name) to the shrouds, you still can't ease the boom out to 90 degrees relative to the fore/aft line of the vessel. The shrouds lead aft, the sail bellies (lying against the shrouds, the chafe on which destroys canvas depressingly quickly) and twists away to leeward meaning the gaff is more perpendicular than the boom. Added to which pulling in 300ft of mainsheet to harden up or gybe is slow and heavy work. NA has got it pretty close IMO :)

 

 

Name of Ship (Lynx or Yacht)

Define problem: angle of sail allowed, auto skipper, and leeway.

Why is it a problem? sails do not trim correctly for points of sail between ~60-70 degrees and 45 degrees to the apparent wind.

Why should you fix?

This is really three issues, first, is point of sail, and auto skipper. Granted, a traditional  full length keel and typical bottom growth of even copper plated hulls of the era are not going to point 45 degrees into apparent wind. However, between 45 and somewhere low of 70 degrees apparent the autoskipper gives up, and leaves the sails untrimmed for the point of sail. Take a look at my profile pic. I'm sailing at about 40-45 for an apparent wind angle, and overpowered in the conditions, so main is twisted off a bit (not on centerline) and I'm "pinching" too tight into the wind (to reduce heel and even then, borderline overpowered).

 on the lynx and cutter models, The booms should sheet close to centerline max...

 

50-55 off is perfectly decent for a gaff cutter. You don't pinch, you don't oversheet - the vessel just stops and drifts sideways, which is dull. It's largely about keeping the rig powered up and the vessel moving. Much quicker A to B than trying to wring every last degree to windward out of a rig and hull shape that don't want to do it. And the model has square tops'ls! Aesthetically, again NA has it pretty close IMO :) 

 

Baggy

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Not so in reality: although you drop the leeward topmast running backstays forward (hence the name) to the shrouds, you still can't ease the boom out to 90 degrees relative to the fore/aft line of the vessel. The shrouds lead aft, the sail bellies (lying against the shrouds, the chafe on which destroys canvas depressingly quickly) and twists away to leeward meaning the gaff is more perpendicular than the boom. Added to which pulling in 300ft of mainsheet to harden up or gybe is slow and heavy work. NA has got it pretty close IMO :)

 

Baggy

 

This is true even in our family's modern Bermuda Sloop.  +1

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Mr. Doran    355

Name of the ship - HMS Surprise


Problem - Poundage nerf to the max long gun pound to be nine pounds


Why is it a problem - Before the poundage nerf the balance between the Surprise, Trincomalee, and the Constitution felt perfect. The surprise with its ability to spin circles around the previously mentioned with proper yard usage and decent battery was able to take on the Trincomalee and Constitution but was still vulnerable. With the poundage nerf the Surprise (from and inclusive to my expereince) dose not seem to be able to perform as admirably against the Trincomalee as effectively. With the addition to the Trinco's speed bonus the Surprise's agility is not as much of a threat considering the Trinco could already turn at comparable rates to a Surprise if you handle your yards properly and the speed bonus somewhat negates a surprises ability to kyte a Trinco. From my experience almost only using the Trincomalee since the patch I no longer feel the surprise to be much of a threat unless in the hands of someone who really knows how to use their yards to the fullest and land every last shot of double and bar. This is not to say the Surprise holds no place against the Trinco. In the hands of a skilled player the surprise is still a threat against a Trincomalee as this can be the case for almost any ship pairing but it just no longer feels like it is as balanced of a fight. The poundage nerf  really hits hard against the balance between surprise and Constitution with the match up already being David and Goliath like; only making the problems listed fighting the trinco amplified to a higher degree. I'm not trying to make the assumption or statement that a surprise should be able to take down a Constitution regularly in any condition. The only times i have done it personally is with the wind in my favor and likely the favors of luck on my side. If it says or means anything I almost exclusively used Surprise until this patch and now exclusively only use the Trincomalee for the reasons listed above. 


Solution - Give Surprise 12lbs again as an option for the top gun deck. (Or reduce the Trincomalee's speed I guess but that still dosen't solve the problem between Surprise V Constitution (If there is a problem there))


*Note* Maybe I am completely incorrect and a three pound difference would make almost no difference in the outcome of balancing but it sure seems reducing the poundage to nine has made an impact at least to my observation and opinion.  


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Mr. Doran    355

Name of the ship - Constitution 

Problem - Maximum turn rate with proper yard usage feels like a bit too much for the tanky amount of hit points and ability to have 18lbs on both decks.

Why is it a problem - The Constitutions thermal nuclear abilities don't handle very well (In my opinion.......) pitted against the Trincomalee and Surprise. Most people seem to hold the position it turns like a bath tub but in the right hands it feels like a slightly slower Trincomalee turning. Now by no means am I saying the Constitutions agility is completely unbalanced to the Trincomalee and Surprise but I am saying it does seem a bit high for the sake of balance when looking at its other characteristics. 

Solution- Decrease the Constitutions turn rate. 

*Note* This post is made with three assumptions. 

1. That there is no gap between the Leda Class and Constitution like super frigates. 

2. That the developers intend for it to be like this and this post goes off as a meaningless gripe. 

3. The Constitution's conception as a super frigate from a historical point of view does not hold more weight than the point of view of balance going back to assumption two. 

P.S. I don't know if I am suppose to merge this post with my previous ones if there are double post rules etc. 

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maturin    5,454

 

Solution - Give Surprise 12lbs again as an option for the top gun deck. (Or reduce the Trincomalee's speed I guess but that still dosen't solve the problem between Surprise V Constitution (If there is a problem there))

The real long-term solution is the addition of a 32 gun frigate.

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Johny Reb    1,255

Name of the ship - Constitution 

Problem - Maximum turn rate with proper yard usage feels like a bit too much for the tanky amount of hit points and ability to have 18lbs on both decks.

Why is it a problem - The Constitutions thermal nuclear abilities don't handle very well (In my opinion.......) pitted against the Trincomalee and Surprise. Most people seem to hold the position it turns like a bath tub but in the right hands it feels like a slightly slower Trincomalee turning. Now by no means am I saying the Constitutions agility is completely unbalanced to the Trincomalee and Surprise but I am saying it does seem a bit high for the sake of balance when looking at its other characteristics. 

Solution- Decrease the Constitutions turn rate. 

*Note* This post is made with three assumptions. 

1. That there is no gap between the Leda Class and Constitution like super frigates. 

2. That the developers intend for it to be like this and this post goes off as a meaningless gripe. 

3. The Constitution's conception as a super frigate from a historical point of view does not hold more weight than the point of view of balance going back to assumption two. 

P.S. I don't know if I am suppose to merge this post with my previous ones if there are double post rules etc. 

I really don't think we should be talking about balancing ships in Alpha testing. These ships will become more balanced out as more and more ships are added and the gaps filled. just my 2 cents

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maturin    5,454

Ship: Trincomalee

GameLabs asked me how I liked the Leda-class, so I thought I would bring up some minor issues.

 

#1.  Trincomalee should not set a spritsail.*

She has a downward-facing vertical spike on her bowsprit called a dolphinstriker (lol). Look at the picture below and realize that the rigging associated with the dolphinstriker makes it impossible to set a spritsail. And so she would have carried a spritsail yard, but with no sail on it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Trincomalee#mediaviewer/File:HMS_Trincomalee.jpg

The martingale stays that run to the dolphinstriker could also be modified to match this image. They look rather strange right not.

 

The rightmost sails in this image are spritsails: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spritsail_%28square-rigged%29#mediaviewer/File:Batavia_03.JPG

 

#2. Trincomalee lacks mizzen backstays. Enough said. Unlike all the other ships, the mizzen topmast has nothing to hold it up from behind. Compare with Bellona or Surprise.

 

 

On a related note, it is doubtful that Victory and Bellona used their spritsail topsails, since those uncommon sails would likewise interfere with the dolphinstriker.

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admin    28,104

Need feedback on the santisima and victory.. specifically on their survivability in lineship combat. we believe that survivability for 1st rates is low

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Hernann    1

Hi, after a few tries, i noticed that the santisima might have a bug related to the pump, as it start taking water very early in each match,  switching to survival, the water level barely goes down. I often need to switch to survival even if i dont have any holes in the hull, more often than any other ships i`ve tried so far. turning could be improved a bit to be more in line with the victory. I also noticed that the sterns guns are quite low positionned on the deck, making them barely usable in rough sea or storms maps. 

 

And i kind of agree that the survivability of first rates need to be improved. In every game i played before there was always a satisfactory evolution in your character that makes them better so you can enjoy a better game play as you level up and all. but in Naval Action, ships upgrades doesn`t feel like its an upgrade, especially when you reach trincomales and upward, its like starting with a quick swift steed and finish up trying to ride jabba the hutt

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Leviathan    1,032

I think the Victory and Santisima compare pretty equally with both having their advantages. It can be a toss up depending on the captains and the circumstances each face. However, each can be sunk extremely quick if a hit generates enough leaks. Basically it's impossible to patch the leaks fast enough in combat when dealing with cannon fire of this scale. Once the ship starts listing a little it can easily turn into flooding as they rest of the leaks become submerged.

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RAMJB    972

I think the Victory and Santisima compare pretty equally with both having their advantages. It can be a toss up depending on the captains and the circumstances each face. However, each can be sunk extremely quick if a hit generates enough leaks. Basically it's impossible to patch the leaks fast enough in combat when dealing with cannon fire of this scale. Once the ship starts listing a little it can easily turn into flooding as they rest of the leaks become submerged.

 

 

I guess that battle which pretty much doomed me with your opening broadside really convinced you of that, right? ;).

 

A somewhat smaller time to plug the over-the-water leaks while in survival mode (shouldn't be complicated to plug them as there's still no water inrush, right?) would go a long way improving this issue, alongside a pump that doesn't get damaged each time you get fired at (seriously, I can't recall any serious battle where my pump has been put out of comission in a 1st rate). The way it is now is perfectly possible for a 1st rate to get so many leaks open in just one broadside, alongside a damaged pump, that it's going to go eventually down.

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I guess that battle which pretty much doomed me with your opening broadside really convinced you of that, right? ;).

 

A somewhat smaller time to plug the over-the-water leaks while in survival mode (shouldn't be complicated to plug them as there's still no water inrush, right?) would go a long way improving this issue, alongside a pump that doesn't get damaged each time you get fired at (seriously, I can't recall any serious battle where my pump has been put out of comission in a 1st rate). The way it is now is perfectly possible for a 1st rate to get so many leaks open in just one broadside, alongside a damaged pump, that it's going to go eventually down.

 

With regard to the pumps, it sounds like that will get better in Damage v4 to some degree. I think it's a random % to damage a pump right now.  I'd like to add that I'm hopeful they will model each pump individually, meaning you can at least partially pump if one of the multiple pumps on your large ship is damaged, albeit at a reduced rate.

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Alex Connor    866

Need feedback on the santisima and victory.. specifically on their survivability in lineship combat. we believe that survivability for 1st rates is low

Problem: too much firepower  :P

 

You have given Victory 42lb lowerdeck, 32lb middledeck, 24lb upperdeck, 18lb weatherdeck. Crazy firepower, even the very big 120 gun first rates (bigger than Santisima) did not have such heavy guns...

 

On the real ship the lower 2 gundecks have guns useful in lineship fights, above that only small 12lb guns that have difficulty penetrating the hull of a lineship. This is why the French liked to build big 2 deckers instead of small 3 deckers, both types have only 2 useful gundecks so firepower is similar and the 2 decker is better to sail. To have big guns on all decks would produce huge stability problems, but I have tried this ship with historical armament and maximum armament, cannot feel a difference in handling.

 

I don't have Santisima yet to check maximum armament but should be strictly limited to real armament, with 36lb/24lb/12lb/8lb she sailed badly enough, anything heavier unthinkable  :lol:

 

Bellona is also overgunned, but only a little bit.

 

If you restrict all these ships to their real armaments then they will not be sunk so easily in lineship battles  :)

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Prater    5,325

Since servers are down I've been going through videos that I have recorded. Here is one that I thought was odd. Is it just me or does the snow appear to be like a ride in an amusement park? Some of those near "free falls" (especially the first one, and one towards the end) look like they might snap the masts off and destroy the ship. It looks similar to a rubber raft and not a ship that has weight. But maybe that is just my perception and it is acting like it should.

Since this might be considered a "bug" or maybe a weird issue I have left the video unlisted so it can only be accessed from this link.

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