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Speed, turning, wind angles, heel, sails - suggestions and feedback

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Also like to add that on a fairly small brig with a well trained crew I can scandalize my topgallants in approximately 30 seconds, in order to spill wind and bleed speed for tricky manuevers around the other vessels stern.  I'm talking real life, not the game.  The topsails of course do not usually get clewed up or down during a battle sail but the topgallants, spanker, course, and head sails can come down pretty quick if we want to bleed some speed and have the Hawaiian Chieftain blow by unawares that we are about to turn under his counter and hammer him in the stern.  The course takes about 10-15 seconds to clew up if you have people standing by the stations to do so, and as it adds 1 knot or more by itself in decent wind when you clew it up suddenly you can bleed speed rapidly.  We do it all the time.  Just watch top gun, we do the same thing.

 

I have been using the same tactic in the game, I come blazing in, full sail, aimed at the opponents bow, at the right moment I take in topgallants and flying jib and hard a starboard or port, and slide right under the opponents stern, it actually works quite flawlessly in the game, I have been doing it over and over again and it works wonders.  In fact I would hazard a suggestion that stern shots should do even more to the vessel than they do now, in real life taking a full broadside through those windows and down the length of the deck with no bulkheads would just wreck the vessel and crew.

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I would like the implementation of sails that rip or blow out of their bolts with enough shoots thru and if you turn with full sails you lose your top sails(easy way to implement) or your top masts (harder to implement ).  Two months ago I went sailing with my poppa (33ft Pearson) and the stress on the sheet was visible with tiny red flags and that was how you know when to let out the yard or sail.

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Is it possible that when you put your speed on stop that ALL the sails will go away after you selected "STOP"?

Sometimes it is kinda irritating that the sails wont move for like 10 seconds and that your ship keeps picking up speed instead of comming to a stop.

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If only we had the open playing field in which to do this practice it would be great, but if only for the sake of your team mates you cannot start doing your own thing with sail trimming and the like in either PvP or PvE

You can test these in PvE, just run with the wind for 15 min, till clear of following ship...

 

Did this the other night and found that once I was clear the WIND started changing direction by up to 180 deg..

 

Mucked about with sails and rudder for almost 45 min.

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Problem: No way of individually controlling what sails you want to raise or lower.

 

Lets say I am sailing close hauled in a frigate, there is no way (to the best of my knowledge) I can use all the jib sails, without using the sails which are not giving thrust and in fact slowing me down. Or there is a heavy wind and I want to only raise the small sails that will not put excessive force on the masts. Currently, you can't. You only have the presets available, stop dead slow, slow, battle, half, and full.

 

A few different sail options would be nice, or, even better, a way of making your own personal presets/tuning them yourself. For instance, you press x button to open sail management, at which point the cursor appears on the screen and you can click on sails to lower/raise them.

 

This would become very important in high winds and storms as you don't want to overload  your masts.

Edited by Capt Aerobane

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Automated sail deployment is, at best, a crutch to ensuring good and accessible gameplay.  There is not enough development cycles, let alone established computer models and ready-to-use physics code to accurately model the fine points of the deployment and trim of a dozen (or two dozen) different sails.  While a control system could easily be developed to allow individual sails to be deployed, their action on the rig's balance is far, far more difficult to model.  This also means many players will end up with a total mess and a ship that is nearly uncontrollable due to weather helm when they start messing with the sail plan.

 

Yes, for now, there are times in a top-sail schooner where you wouldn't have the top sail deployed due to the wind direction/direction of sail.  For now, while that sail still shows as being deployed, as far as the game code itself is concerned, that sail isn't negatively affecting your speed, even though it would in real life.  The game itself renders sails based on the pre-set settings, and then uses the pre-set settings to establish the vessel's speed on a particular reach.  Down the road, I'd like to see certain sails deploy and disappear when they are useful/not useful respectively.  While smaller boats may have seen the Captain also acting as her sailing master, many of the larger ships had a dedicated sailing master that handled the finer points of sailing the vessel - that's kind of what we have going on here.  The Captain orders more or less sail, and the game deploys sail to meet the Captain's needs.  It's not perfect, sure, but this is also not a true sailing simulator - were it so, you'd not see much more than some pretty sailing graphics with no combat, scenery, or anything else.  :)

 

A full ship-rigged vessel has an amazingly complex number of forces acting upon it, the current mission of Naval Action is to take those forces into account as best it can, and distill them down to a fun, playable naval combat game. :)

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What you say is true, Darby, but there are nonetheless some simple ways to make serious improvements.

 

For example, when a ship is sailing dead downwind, the sailing model already considers the staysails to be completely ineffective. Therefore, after a few minutes of holding that course, the staysails should furl automatically. (Except the fore topmast staysail, which was left set to guard against yawing and griping.)

 

A few tweaks like this one would dramatically increase the authenticity of the ships on different point of sail, adding variety and prettifying the game. Furthermore, establishing this feature would open the door to user-friendly and realistic studdingsails.

 

 

Regards control over individual sails, I never expect to see this as a real gameplay feature. But I desperately hope that one day we will gain this ability if only for the purposes of making nice screenshots. It doesn't need to have any effect on the gameplay. These ships are our Barby dolls, and what good is a doll with only one or two outfits and accessories?

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You and I are in complete agreement Dr. Maturin, sails that are not useful at a particular setting or heading should most certainly be furled by the logic!  I think you and I have discussed exactly this in the past.  My main point was that having each sail's particular contribution to the boat's thrust modeled is likely outside of the scope of the game.  Having sails that are not useful on a certain heading furl, or, as you said, the ability to furl sails for aesthetic purposes are both great ideas.  :)

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  • Problem: Upwind heel range issues combined with getting outrun by slightly faster ships offers no counterplay - I was in a match the other day with carronades on a Surprise and got upwind from my enemies, I was traveling at full speed but could never even catch the trinc/const/bels the entire match to ever get in range.  Part of this is obvious due to them outranging me. It doesn't matter if you have chain shot if you are never in range to get shots off. 

Why it is a problem: No gameplay tactics to handle this.  It is so boring not to be able to do anything the entire match.  A ship that is even .5 kn faster can pretty much just go all the way down the map before you can catch him currently.  Going into 'sail' mode doesn't solve the problem.  The 'ring' isn't really the answer unfortunately and is too gamey of a mechanic IMO to be relied on to fix this.  Besides it can easily take 15 min before someone hits the ring.  That is too long without being able to do something.

What should developers do to fix the problem: Need some kind of chase mode to close gap.  Maybe it increases your straight line speed a few knots at the sacrifice of turning speed  That or heel needs to be adjusted to prevent so much kiting.  I don't care if you can't even fire while the mode is active.

Edited by Booyaah

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Well, Booyah

     Mechanics are fine as is in this area......IMO

1) your ship was slower than the enemy ships and 2) you outfitted your ship with very short range wepons....sounds like a tactical mistake on your part.

 

Live and Learn

 

Sail States-

Myself I think the Changing sail state should be increased...and Increased alot going intoSail state of STOP and out of Stop.

 

Zero/Stop Sail...turning---

 

Now do not even get me started on that NOOB/Gamey maneuver.....should be REMOVED...IMO

Edited by AP514

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Will raising and lowering sails work the same in the final version as it does today. I mean with the 4 step ( stop slow etc )  or will we be able to adjust it more somehow? Or do i need to manually steer the sails for that one?

I noticed today when we were trying to linefight that trying to keep the same speed as the ship infront is quite hard.

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Will raising and lowering sails work the same in the final version as it does today. I mean with the 4 step ( stop slow etc )  or will we be able to adjust it more somehow? Or do i need to manually steer the sails for that one?

I noticed today when we were trying to linefight that trying to keep the same speed as the ship infront is quite hard.

 

Staying in formation should be hard. It was historically and it's very satisfying to pull off.

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adjust your Speed with the Manual Skipper.

if your too fast better put the Yards more parallel to the wind.

To go faster again just hit the autoskipper or adjust the trim to the desired Speed.

If your not going to catch up with the current sail Setup you can set more canvas.

But Yard control is always faster and a lot more precise in finetuning your Speed.

 

When you do a line Formation ist cruzial that the guy in front is not going crazy with his sails. Call out for one sail Setting and the rest of the line has to follow accordingly.

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Sail States-

Myself I think the Changing sail state should be increased...and Increased alot going intoSail state of STOP and out of Stop.

 

Zero/Stop Sail...turning---

 

Now do not even get me started on that NOOB/Gamey maneuver.....should be REMOVED...IMO

JqLK8Yu.jpg

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  • Problem

When you furl your staysails (using T) while sailing with battle sails, the staysails won't take effect again when you press B (they will graphically sheet home again, but to no effect). You have to increase sail and then go back to battle sail for it to work properly.

 

  • Why it is a problem

Because the UI and animations do not reflect the actual spread of sail.

 

  • What should developers do to fix the problem

Fix the above problem. Additionally I think it would be better if T was a toggle to furl and unfurl the staysails so you don't have to use the increase/decrease sail for them to come back after furling.

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Automated sail deployment is, at best, a crutch to ensuring good and accessible gameplay.  There is not enough development cycles, let alone established computer models and ready-to-use physics code to accurately model the fine points of the deployment and trim of a dozen (or two dozen) different sails.  While a control system could easily be developed to allow individual sails to be deployed, their action on the rig's balance is far, far more difficult to model.  This also means many players will end up with a total mess and a ship that is nearly uncontrollable due to weather helm when they start messing with the sail plan.

 

I think you're over emphasising the difficulty of modelling the ships sails and coding their effects. I've nowhere near the same experience or skill regarding coding, (a mere handful of flash games in about 10 years since leaving college) but yet I can still formulate an idea of how it could be done in my head. The only concern would be the effect the extra calculations would have on FPS.

 

What we have currently is effectively 3-4 acting sails per ship, it's not taken into account how much of each is showing to the wind but rather the sail % handles this for every sail.

 

I would like to see each set of sails by mast so separate mizzen, main and fore mast controls as well as the stay sails (spanker & jibs included), each having their own '%'controls. For example 100% would be all sails set, including stun'sls on the square rigged ships, all the way down to being close reefed at around 20%.

 

This would all be a different sailing control mode much like how War Thunder have the instructor assisted controls all the way through to simulator controls. Either would work though a small (maybe 5%) performance increase could be given to a player using full controls and doing it well. It wouldn't hinder new players that way, they wouldn't have any extra learning to do but those of us who enjoy the fact that this is in fact a sailing game would get a lot out of it, I'm sure.

 

I personally think it would massively improve the sailing and the 'chase', though it might become difficult to handle in a large pitched battle, it could still offer a challenge in even the most straight forward of scenarios.

 

Obviously this would all be further down the line but the Devs should have ambitions for features like this along with wind variation and the like.

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Obviously this would all be further down the line but the Devs should have ambitions for features like this along with wind variation and the like.

 

Unfortunately, or fortunately we do not have plans for extremely detailed sail control. For multiple reasons from User interface hell to just proper visualization of everything. What can be considered is better sails positions or performance options within the current UI and controls.

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  • Problem

When you furl your staysails (using T) while sailing with battle sails, the staysails won't take effect again when you press B (they will graphically sheet home again, but to no effect). You have to increase sail and then go back to battle sail for it to work properly.

 

 

 

T is not a problem yet because this feature does not officially exist :)

but thanks for the signal AND for the proper feedback.

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Unfortunately, or fortunately we do not have plans for extremely detailed sail control. For multiple reasons from User interface hell to just proper visualization of everything. What can be considered is better sails positions or performance options within the current UI and controls.

 

Interface hell? heh... I could think of user friendly a way to do this off the top of my head. Visualising it would be more complicated but I certainly wouldn't have thought it impossible.

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