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Battle of Chickamauga


sigsaucy

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This has to be the most difficult battle I've fought so far.  I'm playing with a 28k Union army vs a 50k Confed army, the majority of the Confed army is 3 Star veterans.

It wouldn't be so bad but your supply wagons only come in part way through the battle, and they appear extremely far away from the main front.  When you have a small army, you just don't have the men to secure a safe route for them and they get captured.

I find myself in a state where I win the initial engagements, then find the majority of my army out of ammo, struggling to survive while the overwhelming numbers of the confeds sweep the field and sieze all the objectives.  So far I've only managed to lose with 12k Union vs 28k Confed casualities :/.

What am I doing that causes the game to give my enemies such large numbers combined with so many veterans?  I only have 2 3 stars and a few 2 stars.  If I add more rookie brigades then the computer will just get more 3 star brigades right?  It would really help if the supply wagons came with your main army.

Edited by sigsaucy
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5 hours ago, sigsaucy said:

What am I doing that causes the game to give my enemies such large numbers combined with so many veterans?  I only have 2 3 stars and a few 2 stars.  If I add more rookie brigades then the computer will just get more 3 star brigades right?  It would really help if the supply wagons came with your main army.

You're not doing anything wrong.  It's called Game mechanics.  ;)

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Just finished this battle (normal level) and it's very bloody...lost 19k to Union 41k (almost entire Union army was wiped out). Not sure if I can lower casualties since there are many objectives required to be captured and most of battle is in thick forest.

Interestingly, I didn't have all of my units in battle (had 2 corps with 20 brigades each), numbers were roughly the same (my 42k to Union 44k). My 2 full corps were about 52k so I was short of my 10k men (would be very handy to had them). Scaling I presume?

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On 12/03/2017 at 9:08 AM, sigsaucy said:

This has to be the most difficult battle I've fought so far.  I'm playing with a 28k Union army vs a 50k Confed army, the majority of the Confed army is 3 Star veterans.

It wouldn't be so bad but your supply wagons only come in part way through the battle, and they appear extremely far away from the main front.  When you have a small army, you just don't have the men to secure a safe route for them and they get captured.

I find myself in a state where I win the initial engagements, then find the majority of my army out of ammo, struggling to survive while the overwhelming numbers of the confeds sweep the field and sieze all the objectives.  So far I've only managed to lose with 12k Union vs 28k Confed casualities :/.

What am I doing that causes the game to give my enemies such large numbers combined with so many veterans?  I only have 2 3 stars and a few 2 stars.  If I add more rookie brigades then the computer will just get more 3 star brigades right?  It would really help if the supply wagons came with your main army.

If you only have 28k men it means your army has suffered too much during previous battles. Use reputation to bring in more $/recruits and if you can't... well I'm afraid you'll have to restart the campaign. By that time you should have at least 50k. It's a tough game and you wouldn't be the first who have to restart, no shame in it. 

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Yeah this battle is tough indeed, for both sides.  I consolidated my CSA army into 2 Corps, just over 50k.. I've tried 3 times, all ended in a crushing defeat.  Your forces are spread out so far, it's tough to get good concentrated attacks on the Union objectives..

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1 hour ago, jennison said:

Yeah this battle is tough indeed, for both sides.  I consolidated my CSA army into 2 Corps, just over 50k.. I've tried 3 times, all ended in a crushing defeat.  Your forces are spread out so far, it's tough to get good concentrated attacks on the Union objectives..

I won it by holding union on right flank and sweeping it from left with my best brigades. But it was very costly, some of my brigades finished with less than 300 men (started with full 2000)

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2 hours ago, Slobodan said:

I won it by holding union on right flank and sweeping it from left with my best brigades. But it was very costly, some of my brigades finished with less than 300 men (started with full 2000)

Thanks for the tip; I'll give that a shot.  I think I've bee sweeping from my left flank, from South to North.  I'll try the opposite. 

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On 3/12/2017 at 4:08 AM, sigsaucy said:

It wouldn't be so bad but your supply wagons only come in part way through the battle, and they appear extremely far away from the main front.  When you have a small army, you just don't have the men to secure a safe route for them and they get captured.

This is the key! This map is absolutely huge and is meant to punish players that have armies that are too small (they were previously benefitting from scaled down AI numbers). You can't have a single unbroken line with a small army. This battle also shows why putting points into Logistics is important. Logistics may get a lot of hate/pity, but it looks pretty awesome when your supply wagons are empty and half your units have the big red "Ammo" alert above them! 

Uhhh ok but to try to be helpful and not just critical- how is your Union army only 28k? There have been tons of battles and your army should have had plenty of opportunities to grow well beyond that number. If it's spread out among multiple corps, you need to consolidate your resources so that you can put 2 full 24-brigade corps with over 2,000 per infantry brigade. In terms of tactics, I recommend straight-up defense for the Union for two straight days- just defend the objectives and let the Confederates attack you. No need to be aggressive to capture the two Confederate objectives on day 2. You get the win at the end of day 3 if you just hold the objectives you start with along with Horseshoe Ridge. 

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I just finished my first battle here as the CSA on BG level and while I took all the objectives I only got a draw cause I lost over 50% of my army (30kish I think....I forgot to screen shot the ending info) No doubt it's a really hard battle. I'm gonna try it again but with a little different strategy but not sure the victory is worth what it's gonna cost in losses as you can only get 14k recruits with a victory.

 

CSX4451

 

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7 hours ago, CSX4451 said:

I just finished my first battle here as the CSA on BG level and while I took all the objectives I only got a draw cause I lost over 50% of my army (30kish I think....I forgot to screen shot the ending info) No doubt it's a really hard battle. I'm gonna try it again but with a little different strategy but not sure the victory is worth what it's gonna cost in losses as you can only get 14k recruits with a victory.

 

CSX4451

 

I think that it's always worth to have victory: captured weapons, career points and reputation points (along with experience your troops gain) is best reward.

That said, your losses are too high. On my second attempt at Chickamauga, I won as CSA (brig general difficulty) with 16k casualties but captured ~8k Springfield's 1861, ~600 JF whatitsname scoped rifles, 450 Spencer repeaters and ~30 20Pdr Parrots (not much of use but good for cash). 

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So far, my main difficulty with the Union is that due to the massive time allowed for the third day, playing defense is not actually sparing me any casualties, it's just distributing them somewhat more to my reinforcement corps rather than the vanguard. I'll give it another go and this time try not to rely on the tree fortifications around Viniard, they don't seem to be terribly helpful. Probably better off trying to gun down Confederate units with massed volleys just as they cross the stream.

 

Edit: My latest attempt. I'm getting somewhat frustrated with my inability to keep casualties from being rather heavy in this battle, even though it was rather lopsided in my favor this time.

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Edited by Viperlord
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On 3/14/2017 at 8:56 PM, CSX4451 said:

I just finished my first battle here as the CSA on BG level and while I took all the objectives I only got a draw cause I lost over 50% of my army (30kish I think....I forgot to screen shot the ending info) No doubt it's a really hard battle. I'm gonna try it again but with a little different strategy but not sure the victory is worth what it's gonna cost in losses as you can only get 14k recruits with a victory.

 

 

On 3/18/2017 at 8:25 PM, CSX4451 said:

Finally just snuck a victory. Still losing to many but got my strategy down better 

 

While Union losses for me was bearable due to fortifications and falling back instead of trying to take the Junction and Farm... CSA was just plain ridiculous. I brought in 50k and walked away with 20 something K. The Union was utterly relentless in attacking and while I managed to flank them and push them north dealing them a loss of 40K... However, my CSA campaign is at an end as I only had 60K for my entire CSA army. I"m honestly thinking the CSA campaign even on Brig is just ridiculous. You simply can't replenish all those losses.

Edited by vren55
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3 hours ago, vren55 said:

 

While Union losses for me was bearable due to fortifications and falling back instead of trying to take the Junction and Farm... CSA was just plain ridiculous. I brought in 50k and walked away with 20 something K. The Union was utterly relentless in attacking and while I managed to flank them and push them north dealing them a loss of 40K... However, my CSA campaign is at an end as I only had 60K for my entire CSA army. I"m honestly thinking the CSA campaign even on Brig is just ridiculous. You simply can't replenish all those losses.

Last time I played BG was quite a long time ago, but I remembered walking out of Fredericksburg with ~80k troops (going max size).

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I just fought what I felt was the smartest way I could fight this battle from how I had my 2 Corps set up.

I left enough men to hold Jays Mill and moved the rest to help hold Brotherton Road from the union attacks. Once my my additional troops arrived , I also used them to bolster Brotherton Road and move west to the tree line towards Brotherton Cabin area. I also sent a small force to take Lee Gordon's Mill. I left a regiment to hold it and moved the other 2 north toward the Viniard Field. During this time, I sent troops west through the woods to take Viniard Field which was and easy battle the move the force north while putting pressure from the east. 

Once I hit Brotherton Cabin this is where the fight gets costly. I tried to keep good formations and hit flanks but the Union fought one hell of a delay at this location. 

While this battle raged on, I pushed the union from Brotherton Road and swept around to north and west and took Kelly's Field . Once I had it I set up a defensive line and used arty as much as possible to limit my causualties. 

At the end, I slowly pushed the union from Brotherton Cabin and fortified it in a defensive line and once again used arty to limit my casualties as that 50% condition was approaching !!!! Once I held all the victory points I held tight. 

I felt I fought a smart battle and really decimated the union who for the most part got to play a defensive fight but it still cost me dearly!!!!! Not sure what I could have done better.

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E1715896-C89F-4241-BC61-4B171A0E9A98_zps

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Your army is really infantry heavy : lack of cavalry and arty. Quite a lot of arty is a must because it really hurts the ennemy with its morale effect. in a map like Chichamauga it might not work at best, but have it as close behind as possible of your infantry and it will relieve it greaty. Cav or specialised skirmisher units are really useful in chickmauga because they are very fire resistant in woods and slowly whither down ennemy infantry.

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Thanks for the info.... I think the recruit reward was like 14-15k troops and hopefully enough reward to be able to purchase another 4-7k. I won't know till the development is finished. Regardless that will still leave me 10k troops in the hole from the start of the battle so I hope I have a few small battles to help rebuild .

CSA campaigns are rough when ya stupid!!!!! : )

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Also don't forget that sometimes a victory with 30k losses that gives you 14k recruits, 250k gold and 15 reputation can be a lot worse than a draw where you only lose 9k.... Phyric victories are worse than good draws.

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10 hours ago, veji1 said:

Also don't forget that sometimes a victory with 30k losses that gives you 14k recruits, 250k gold and 15 reputation can be a lot worse than a draw where you only lose 9k.... Phyric victories are worse than good draws.

Here's the problem. To draw, you need to hold Jay's Mill and Brotherton Road, where pressure is immense and where I lost most of my corps. There is no point to trying to draw it out, since the area where you need to hold is literally the most dangerous area. The way I won my Chikamauga, I used the majority of my 2nd corps to flank the enemy, leaving some to reinforce my 1st corps.  

Furthermore, the terrain is kinda shit for both sides. Confederates have very little advantage over terrain even if I withdrew from Brotherton and Jay's mill. I don't know how they deploy on the 2nd day, but if I didn't win on the first day, I am pretty sure I would have met a solidified, fortified Union smackdown.

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4 hours ago, vren55 said:

Here's the problem. To draw, you need to hold Jay's Mill and Brotherton Road, where pressure is immense and where I lost most of my corps. There is no point to trying to draw it out, since the area where you need to hold is literally the most dangerous area. The way I won my Chikamauga, I used the majority of my 2nd corps to flank the enemy, leaving some to reinforce my 1st corps.  

Furthermore, the terrain is kinda shit for both sides. Confederates have very little advantage over terrain even if I withdrew from Brotherton and Jay's mill. I don't know how they deploy on the 2nd day, but if I didn't win on the first day, I am pretty sure I would have met a solidified, fortified Union smackdown.

Hm, if you don't take all objectives on 1st day you actually lose battle :)

To defend at Jay's Mill and Brotherton Road: place your brigades in woods, on both side of roads where Yankees are coming. Place some artillery behind your infantry brigades. Always try to move your troops to flank enemy wherever opportunity arise. When reinforcements start to coming, use them (most of them anyway) to strengthen your week points.

I also had several Calvary brigades (2 Mounted inf and 1 Melee Cav) as reinforcements, which I used to harass enemy with attacks from behind, destroy routing enemy and more crucially to capture some supply wagons (since there's no way you have enough supplies for whole day battle).

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  • 4 weeks later...

I've lost the CSA version about 8 times..  I can never hold Brotherton and Kelly's Ford long enough.  By that point in the scenario, my forces are so thin, I just end up rushing single depleted brigades to those objectives in between the union lines.. I'll grab the objective for a few moments, but the lone brigade is eventually surrounded and routs.. 

I start the scenario with about 60k men which seems like enough.  I don't understand because I consider myself a pretty decent player--I've had victories on all scenarios up to this point.  I'm about ready to throw in the towel and accept defeat, but I don't know if I'll be able to continue the campaign with my decimated army.  Frustrating..

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I finally managed a Draw.  I held all objectives, but I guess I lost too many men and the scenario ended before I could advance to the last day (I assume this is when Horseshoe Ridge is attacked)

So now I'm concerned I lost too many men to continue the campaign.  I'm starting the Overland with about 32,000 tired, war-weary souls.  As Alexander Haskell once wrote "None but heroes are left."

 

Edited by jennison
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