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Yar Matey

The regional bonuses finally did me in:

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Yar Matey    760

I have been playing this game for a long time with over 2000 hours logged in this game.  I am sad to say that I simply do not have the desire to log in and play this game anymore.  The British have been relentlessly raising hostility every 2 days in the Orinoco region and the British finally managed to take it away from the Swedish nation.  I saw the writing on the wall when the United States took the Danish strong hull region and I was hoping they would take it back so I could at least craft ships with this regional trim.  Unfortunately, it looks like Sweden's ally has decided to stop playing the game. 

What is really sad, is Sweden did not even have enough players to fill the port battle slots and I ended up being a drop in.  Usually the port battle list would be filled up before I scheduled a slot to participate and I was always happy being a casual screener. 

I have pretty much setup all crafting operations out of this region for a long time due to the need of crafting strong hull on ships for port battles.  It would take me countless amounts of hours to move all my materials out of the region.  The problem with this regional crafting system is crafting now feels more like work than actually playing a game. 

The regional bonuses was a terrible idea and the final nail in the coffin, for me, was the loss of our strong hull region down in Orinoco. 

and TBH, the strong hull build ships are so broken that it is obvious when you are fighting an enemy with a strong hull build or not.  I do not even enjoy playing the game with these broken ships in the game. 

Edited by Yar Matey

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Wraith    1,348

Well, you just got Santo Domingo back, so there's that.  But you can bet we'll be right back on it in two days. :P The regional builds are the only thing that makes RvR and crafting interesting/meaningful besides colors on a map. So some re-work of that is necessary. But I agree, it all feels a bit high-stakes at times.

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Snoopy    1,150

I hear ya.

The new system is only good for screwing players over, worst of all ppl who aren't even involved in RvR and they lose access to their stuff due to no fault of their own. Crafting is involved already and could do without the added chore of redoing outposts/production ports when regions change hands.

In theory, switching alliances would be a solution for the access to regional trims part, but all we have are static alliances (strictly speaking not the game's fault because they are player driven but even if the community was in full agreement to break the current stalemate voting cycles are too long for a drastic makeover) but then you'd still have to redo your outposts and ship all your crafting materials out.

I doubt there are many players who enjoy this part of the game.

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Snoopy    1,150
2 minutes ago, Wraith said:

[..]The regional builds are the only thing that makes RvR and crafting interesting/meaningful besides colors on a map. [..]

I think the many all-nighters after EA just for colored dots on the map say otherwise. :)

We need a system that doesn't screw casual players (who find themselves locked out of their stuff after a few days of absence) over with quite as much insouciance as now.

A dedicated RvRer will have enough time in the game to have enough cash to redo his outposts (and the time/commitment).
For less active players losing what they might have earned slowly over months without any fault of their own is a kick in the nut.

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Yar Matey    760
30 minutes ago, Snoopy said:

We need a system that doesn't screw casual players (who find themselves locked out of their stuff after a few days of absence) over with quite as much insouciance as now.

A dedicated RvRer will have enough time in the game to have enough cash to redo his outposts (and the time/commitment).
For less active players losing what they might have earned slowly over months without any fault of their own is a kick in the nut.

I do not think I fall into the casual category.  I may not participate in RvR much now (mostly because of lockout timers), but I do build lots of ships and there are a lot of them out there with my name on them. 

It took me a week to get setup and operations going out of Orinoco as I had to ship all my good from freeport to freeport at 5k weight limits.  On top of that, I spent countless amounts of hours in a trade ship sailing from port to port to get everything where I needed it.

I simply refuse to do all the sailing and shipping required to get re-established either in Texas area or in the recaptured Santo Domingo (didn't notice it was recaptured until Wraith mentioned it). 

Even the most hard core of the hard core will eventually get tired of loading up trader ships and shipping stuff all over the map simply for a regional bonus as regions change hands. 

On top of that, you have to deal with pirates constantly trying to steal your stuff that was already shipped to a port where you were going to craft ships. 

I guess this new version of Naval action is not for me.  Simply too much time spent in a trade ship and not enough time sailing around PvPing. 

Edited by Yar Matey

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Same battle, different server.  PvP2 has seen exactly the same issue.  For a while the Danes/French/Swedes had no decent crafting regions.  Not only do the big mega alliances have more players, they have better ships and all the silver to make gold mods....

PvP2 has improved a little this past month.  The Danes have woken up and taken much needed regions.  Some the French/Swedes/Danes have silver, and strong hull crafting.  We just lost the British Refit region. 

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Wraith    1,348
30 minutes ago, Snoopy said:

I think the many all-nighters after EA just for colored dots on the map say otherwise. :)

We need a system that doesn't screw casual players (who find themselves locked out of their stuff after a few days of absence) over with quite as much insouciance as now.

A dedicated RvRer will have enough time in the game to have enough cash to redo his outposts (and the time/commitment).
For less active players losing what they might have earned slowly over months without any fault of their own is a kick in the nut.

I don't disagree with you fundamentally, but the post-EA port battles were mostly about getting mods, and putting color on a map was just game playing (see many instances of port trading for mods). And just because a region flips doesn't mean you lose access to your stuff, you just lose the ability to craft there and that's it. So let's not be hyperbolic here. I do agree that some tweaks in the crafting/shipping/trading system could make regional bonuses and builds, and therefore owning regions, meaningful again but not as high stakes.

This might be something like we've proposed in the past with the re-implementation of region bonuses through the use of regional materials. Fine woods was a system that worked *if* they'd done away with the badly implemented RNG. Similar types of goods could be used to make region-specific bonuses. This would concentrate crafting back in capitals or crafting hubs (which is also badly needed) and allow people to smuggle goods they need if they lose access to regional production. This could further be softened by allowing for blackmarket production in these ports (production at higher labor costs, etc.).  They should make losing a region hurt but not debilitating in other words.

Many of these ideas have been hashed over in the past, and would be well worth testing, but the dev's seem to be unwilling to do such things with the economy and rather stick with badly broken mechanics on that side of things while they mess about with yet more changes to the battle mechanics.

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The Red Duke    6,298
2 minutes ago, Powderhorn said:

I'd like to see proposed, finite solutions.

:wub: indeed. A leads to B because C is dependent on D which enables A.

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Aegir    1,665

Remember that there's still a Spanish-owned strong hull region in the northwest part of the Mexican gulf, and as for moving materials it's really quite easy to do with the delivery system even in bulk since the cost is miniscule given how much gold everyone's got. But I guess it's a hassle if people have large quantities tucked away in national ports.

Still prefer regions having actual critical value, even before the alliance patch it created a whole lot of interesting content - having an uneasy peace with the French because we needed to have silver and live oak ports in their waters, or getting into war with the Dutch over a silver port. Now that's gone between allies, and wouldn't be a fan if it was also removed from the tug-o-war between enemies as well.

We might've gone down the wrong path in trying to make things as ideal as possible when maybe we should've looked at what was interesting instead. Which is why I preferred the old ideas of a feudal system with lord protectors getting more votes (to breed powermongerers and revolts) instead of the drab democratic system we've currently got.

Balancing the regional bonuses would go a long way in ensuring that it's not as steep of a drop (such as going from strong hull to regional thickness is at present). It's just a matter of prioritizing which ports are more important and focus hostility and PB efforts on those, which works out fine - except of course when both the hostility and the PB is uncontested because of external circumstances.

Edited by Aegir

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Challenge    84

Aegir, who picks the Lord Protector? Just curious.

I feel the regional bonus thing is a bit of a force to encourage PBs. In reality strategic position and resources were motivators for capturing islands (not ports by the way). Things change hands quickly here because, unlike the RL counter parts, you don't have to control the island -- a job for soldiers and marines. The elimination of the ground war makes it so you can rush from port to port pushing your enemy away, but do not have to take the time to consolidate the holding or face the cost of occupation. Then the enemy builds up forces and takes it back. In effect there are strategic goals, but no real strategic game.

The adjustment to hostility may help, but since most seem to not want to do anything except the "Big Fight", and certainly not anything against the AI, I don't know that it will change much. I understand. Fighting the AI can be repetitive and tedious, but then, war is mostly tedious.

The idea of more costly resource production, and then having to smuggle it out safely actually sounds like a great added dimension to the process. Unfortunately the regional bonuses can shift the balance of power drastically through ship crafting.

 

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The Red Duke    6,298

... remember one funny thing. Planters and all other resource production did have to go through trade ventures - so technically a producer of goods was tied to the companies. Any attempt to simply trade them without going through the system would be considered smuggling ;) ...

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Aegir    1,665
On 2/14/2017 at 4:46 AM, Challenge said:

Aegir, who picks the Lord Protector? Just curious.

Lord Protector was the term for the old conquest system - a person buys a conquest flag to attack a port, if the port is captured he becomes the 'lord protector' of that port and is able to set the time for its defense.

To read more about the admin's old proposal about a more feudal voting system, check out the "Such is a lord" thread

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ajffighter86    497

I recall when all activity happened around capitals crafting ships and most action never happened unless there was a port battle or you decided to take a fleet over to an enemy capital.

Regional bonuses have done a fine job of getting people to utilize the other 99% of ports on the map.

But, I'll be the first one to be critical of these hull strength bonuses, specifically. There should be a bit of value in other characteristics, but seems people have found out that armor is the only thing that matters.

It's incredibly frustrating when a smaller ship that has no business going broadside to broadside with a lineship just sits there deflecting shots because they've got strong hull + mahogany + live oak + explosive reactive armor + photon shield + extra planking ship characteristic + extra planking permanent upgrade. And with all that, who cares if it sails 0.5 knots slower?

I used to shake my head when people on these forums asked if ironclads were ever going to be added to the game. Joke's on me, because they already are.

Edited by ajffighter86

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