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Srupl

Regional "Trims" Balancing / Tuning

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OK, I would actually want to see Regional Bonuses balanced just as many other players. For now the meta are Strong Hulls and Pirate Refits. Speed used to be the meta as well, but Devs nerfed it... Nerfing some bonuses will not change much, most of them need balancing and tuning. Some nerfed, some buffed, some remaining the same, so here it is, list of my personal suggestion (feel free to comment or suggest changes)

 

- Strong Hull - Side Structure HP +5% / +2 cm Armour Thickness / -5% Ships Structure Leaks per sec (Armour Thickness changed from 7% to +2 cm)

- Regional Build Strength - Side Structure HP +10% (Side Structure HP +5%)

- Regional Thickness -  +5 cm (no change)

- Regional Pump -  +5% Water Bailing (no change)

- Northern Carpenters - All Repairs 15% / Pump 2.5% Water Bailing (+5% Repair, -2.5% Pump)

- Agile Hull - 10% turn speed, 10% acceleration /deceleration (no change)

- Regional Closed Haul - Jib Sail Force 0.1 (+0.06 Buff)

- Regional Speed - 5% Max Speed (+3% - reverse of the previous nerf, now it is 2% only)

- Regional Morale Bonus - 75 Morale (+70 Morale - now it is totally useless, only +5 morale bonus???)

- Nassau Boarders - 50 Morale / +10 Preparation (no change)

- Pirate Refit - 25 Morale / +5 Preparation / 2% Max Speed / Main Sail Force 0.05 (-0.05 Main Sail Force)

- Regional Running Bonus - 2% Max Speed / Main Sail Force 0.1 (Added 2% Speed Bonus / +0.06 Main Sail Force)

- Regional Explorer Bonus - 2% Max Speed / Main Sail Force 0.05 / Jib Sail Force 0.05 (Added Jib / Main Sail Force)

- Regional Accuracy -   -15% Dispersion (-10% Dispersion)

- Regional Reload -   -15% Reload Time (-10% Reload Time)

- Strong Rig Bonus - Mast HP +20% / Mast Thickness +5 cm / Module Base HP +10% (Mast HP +10% HP / Mast Thickness Changed from 7% to +5 cm - because 7% is useless for small ships and superior for big ships with mast thickness at ~100-120cm)

- British Refit / French Refit / Spanish Hunter Bonus (no change)

- Main Sail Torque / Spanker Sail - not in the game yet, no idea how strong the bonuses are / if they need tuning.

Edited by sruPL

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pirate refit needs to be cut in half imo. (at least the 10% mainsail force bonus to 5%)

Edited by Liquicity

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6 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

pirate refit needs to be cut in half imo. (at least the 10% mainsail force bonus to 5%)

Done :ph34r:

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Hm so I will instantly drop pirate refit for regional explorer or running bonus so we are where we began. If you truly want to nerf any speed bonus then you  need to create environment where I'm not forced to run mega-speed build in first place because right now with instant identification I must run to my target as fast as I can before my victim reaches safety of port or AI fleet or some other random bs. Speed is life, speed is love :P

 

db34bop.png

Edited by Zoky

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4 minutes ago, Zoky said:

Hm so I will instantly drop pirate refit for regional explorer or running bonus so we are where we began. If you truly want to nerf any speed bonus then you  need to create environment where I'm not forced to run mega-speed build in first place because right now with instant identification I must run to my target as fast as I can before my victim reaches safety of port or AI fleet or some other random bs. Speed is life, speed is love :P

Pirate Refit gives you boarding bonus and 2% speed bonus (works upwind too) and downwind bonus. Also now Speed Bonus works in OW but Main Sail Force doesn't, only works in battle. Regional Running Bonus will be only good for sailing downwind. This will be only good for traders and players hunting traders, but your ship will lose with other ships that have other bonuses. This is not about nerfing speed, this is about balancing.

Edited by sruPL

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Your proposed explorer and running refits are old pirate refit - boarding bonus (witch is not needed in first place tbh)

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Don't get me wrong I'm all for balance, but you need to balance tank build too if you intent to nerf speed build. There should always be + and - to every build.

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10 minutes ago, Zoky said:

Your proposed explorer and running refits are old pirate refit - boarding bonus (witch is not needed in first place tbh)

Explorer and Running are in the game already! But they are useless. Remember that Main Sail Force and Jib Sail Force doesn't work in OW (You need to catch ship in OW first) and boarding for Pirate Refit is very good and helpful. If trader has gold marines and all gold boarding mods, he can kill you. Many players died because of that.

If  you use Speed / Running / Explorer bonus only and fight 1v1 with player that has Spanish Hunter / British Refit / French Refit, you lose. Speed Bonuses are only good for hunting weaker ships or traders, but 1v1 they lose.

Edited by sruPL

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Regionals should be in balance.

Those should not give as huge bonuses as those do atm.  stacking is horrible, builds are horrible.

If regional speed is 2%, that is ok if the rest are on the same level -> balanced

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1 minute ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

Regionals should be in balance.

Those should not give as huge bonuses as those do atm.  stacking is horrible, builds are horrible.

If regional speed is 2%, that is ok if the rest are on the same level -> balanced

Agreed. Right now I buffed some Speed Bonuses, Will think how to lower them all actually.

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13 minutes ago, sruPL said:

 

If  you use Speed / Running / Explorer bonus only and fight 1v1 with player that has Spanish Hunter / British Refit / French Refit, you lose.

Wrong answer -5 point to you :lol: You don't lose you RUN. Speed is used to control engagement. If you manage to gain upper hand you fight, otherwise you run. And you will only lose once to trader with gold marines before you learn to kill his crew before boarding action. So experience>boarding bonus :P

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Just now, Zoky said:

Wrong answer -5 point to you :lol: You don't lose you RUN. Speed is used to control engagement. If you manage to gain upper hand you fight, otherwise you run. And you will only lose once to trader with gold marines before you learn to kill his crew before boarding action. So experience>boarding bonus :P

Even Liqucity died to trader. What they do is sail next to land and you cannot stern rake. I can 1v1 you in Indiaman and show easly that is not easy :) Most traders are noobs though. Also if you run, you lose. Also... if you have no masts, it's hard for you to control engagement and run :lol:

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While I wish to see all of this diluted into a new shipbuilding system it is cool for brainstorm.

Now...Pros vs proportional cons. Any planned on your list ?

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4 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

While I wish to see all of this diluted into a new shipbuilding system it is cool for brainstorm.

Now...Pros vs proportional cons. Any planned on your list ?

You mean advanced comment towards the changes I proposed? I can do that to defend my statements or explain further why it's needed and how it will help.

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42 minutes ago, sruPL said:

Even Liqucity died to trader. What they do is sail next to land and you cannot stern rake. I can 1v1 you in Indiaman and show easly that is not easy :) Most traders are noobs though. Also if you run, you lose. Also... if you have no masts, it's hard for you to control engagement and run :lol:

What you are describing is what will happen if I run into very skilled player, but you forgot that 99.999999999999% of us mortals are average at best. So you have to ask yourself if that brit/french/panda refit is better over tank or speed build for those 0.000000000001% times you need them. But lets stop with brainfarts and concentrate on pros and cons of your suggestion.

My opinion:

We need to remove all bonuses that change ship big time like speed and/or armor/hp

- Regional Running Bonus - 2% Max Speed / Main Sail Force 0.1 (Added 2% Speed Bonus / +0.06 Main Sail Force)

- Regional Explorer Bonus - 2% Max Speed / Main Sail Force 0.05 / Jib Sail Force 0.05 (Added Jib / Main Sail Force)

they will simply replace current pirate refit build since your suggested running/explorer bonuses have same speed bonus minus boarding bonus, and I'm yet so see anyone who chose pirate refit for its boarding bonus. So you removed meh part of pirate refit and left speed part and then changed name of pirate refit to running refit. I can guarantee you that everyone who now have pirate refit ship will simply change to new running/explorer refit. My suggestion is to drop +x% speed from all refits, intoduce HP penalty and delete speed refit

- Strong Hull - Side Structure HP +5% / +2 cm Armour Thickness / -5% Ships Structure Leaks per sec (Armour Thickness changed from 7% to +2 cm)

 

- Regional Build Strength - Side Structure HP +10% (Side Structure HP +5%)

- Regional Thickness -  +5 cm (no change)

Ships are to strong right now and those bonuses only make things worse. 90cm thick ships are ridiculous and we need to get rid of them. So i propose to remove all +thickness and +HP bonuses from all refits. Instead change them to less crew loss (nothing SF like -75% crew loss), less leaks, less tilting etc. If people really need super strong ships then introduce severe speed penalties to those refits. That way we could chose from speed build but week ships, tanks ships but super slow or take some ships with average speed and tank but increased utility. Beats current 2 build system for sure!

EDIT: typos

Edited by Zoky

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20 minutes ago, Yar Matey said:

Regional thickness needs to be changed somehow because the 5 cm on a shallow water ship is huge.

I haven't seen anyone using Regional Thickness so far besides NPCs... but nonetheless, +5cm does nothing if your opponent has carronades. If you decide to go super tanky Live Oak, Stiffness / Regional Thickness, then you are super slow and enemy can kite your sails easly and then wipe your crew / stern rake / demast or board you. I've done it thousands of times fighting in my Bermuda Rattlesnake vs Live Oak Heavy Snakes. I didn't have to destroy their hull.

@Zoky You have some good ideas there.

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First, I think upgrades should not stack on top of regional bonuses. And I think these regional bonuses need to be balanced in a manor that they can be recreated at the same values with permanent and regular upgrades. So if I want a Pirate refit bonus on a ship, yet our nation doesn't have that region to do so, then I'd have to use the upgrade slots. But at least I'd be able to match them.

This would prevent way OP ships and would allow them to be matched via upgrades. It would just mean I've wasted my slots to do so.

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1 hour ago, sruPL said:

You mean advanced comment towards the changes I proposed? I can do that to defend my statements or explain further why it's needed and how it will help.

I mean for the trims to be meaningful choices and not meta. Like exclusive effects in equal measures, so benefits on some areas carry but also prejudice on other areas.

More sail ( whatever value ) more running free speed, more heel on turn ( whatever value ) larger radius turn. Nevermind the example, just to illustrate a +5/-5 effect.

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Time to begin brainstorm! (brainstorm, not shitstorm, it's not national news / global chat :ph34r:)

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1 hour ago, sruPL said:

I haven't seen anyone using Regional Thickness so far besides NPCs... but nonetheless, +5cm does nothing if your opponent has carronades. If you decide to go super tanky Live Oak, Stiffness / Regional Thickness, then you are super slow and enemy can kite your sails easly and then wipe your crew / stern rake / demast or board you. I've done it thousands of times fighting in my Bermuda Rattlesnake vs Live Oak Heavy Snakes. I didn't have to destroy their hull.

I think if your proposed changes are adapted, regional thickness will become the meta for shallow water port battles and probably 4th rate port battles as well. Remember, a bounced shot is a zero damage shot.  

I will say your proposed changes is a good start though, I am just trying to poke holes in it where there may be meta builds assuming your changes are adapted. 

Also, pirate refit should only get a speed bonus or a main sail force bonus, but not both.  It still has all the sweet boarding bonuses already, it shouldn't be that good.

Zoky is right on both accounts.  But talking about force bonuses on sail, that is what makes speed build ships so OP.  IDK if you had the chance to sail a pirate refit/speed and a speed speed build but I have, and it's all about that main sail force bonus.  That is what is giving pirate refit such a huge speed bonus.  Jib and main sail bonuses need to be in the 0.01-0.02 range and not 0.1 range.  0.1 on a main sail is an added 1 knot speed to your ship down wind.

Edited by Yar Matey

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14 hours ago, sruPL said:

If you decide to go super tanky Live Oak, Stiffness / Regional Thickness, then you are super slow and enemy can kite your sails easly and then wipe your crew / stern rake / demast or board you.

This is also stacking and making a build.

Personally I would like that ship itself would define main characteristics, and other bonuses just alter those a bit.  So you should not be able to make super tanky but slow either.

14 hours ago, van der Decken said:

And I think these regional bonuses need to be balanced in a manor that they can be recreated at the same values with permanent and regular upgrades.

If regionals would not give this kind of dramatic bonuses, I think those do not have to be craftable.

Regionals give more purpose for conquest, why I like those.  Would be nice to still have an OP or couple more.

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My idea is to have the "open build" naval architecture and conquest be all about resources.

With the smugglers being phased out / removed it will become really important.

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