Sandermatt Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 (edited) Looking at the 3 most expensive infantry rifles we have Henry, Fayetteville and Spencer. I am not sure why Spencer is more expensive than Henry, because Henrys stats seem better. What is considered better, the higher range,better melee, better accuracy of Fayetteville, or the much higher reload of the other guns? Edited January 10, 2017 by Sandermatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitorishizuka Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Fayetteville for line infantry you intend to just leave in heavy cover and not worry about. Henry/Spencer for a unit you're going to babysit and only use for flanking attacks. By the time you can afford Henries/Spencer in enough numbers to outfit a brigade, 1855s will be hitting the field. If you just leave them in cover, the AI's just going to sit outside your range and shoot you for free. A unit with these rifles can only move up while another unit is already engaged. It's plausible to also use them on offense where you're closing to their range because that's where the cover is anyway but then you run into the problem of them having limited, expensive rifles anyway so them taking fire is undesired in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandermatt Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 5 hours ago, Hitorishizuka said: Fayetteville for line infantry you intend to just leave in heavy cover and not worry about. Henry/Spencer for a unit you're going to babysit and only use for flanking attacks. By the time you can afford Henries/Spencer in enough numbers to outfit a brigade, 1855s will be hitting the field. If you just leave them in cover, the AI's just going to sit outside your range and shoot you for free. A unit with these rifles can only move up while another unit is already engaged. It's plausible to also use them on offense where you're closing to their range because that's where the cover is anyway but then you run into the problem of them having limited, expensive rifles anyway so them taking fire is undesired in general. I thought all infantery has the same range and the range stat only helps to deal more damage at max range. How can the ai outrange you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitorishizuka Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 2 hours ago, Sandermatt said: I thought all infantery has the same range and the range stat only helps to deal more damage at max range. How can the ai outrange you? No, you can see it more clearly if you're using skirmishers. Line a few of them up next to each other using vastly different range rifles and you'll see their cone change. No one can fire outside the range of their rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralPITA Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, Hitorishizuka said: No, you can see it more clearly if you're using skirmishers. Line a few of them up next to each other using vastly different range rifles and you'll see their cone change. No one can fire outside the range of their rifle. Range was normalized for all infantry, but not detached skirmishers. Range only affects efficiency, but if you break off skirmishers they will adopt the actual range values indicated. This was done for balancing reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitorishizuka Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Just now, GeneralPITA said: Range was normalized for all infantry, but not detached skirmishers. Range only affects efficiency, but if you break off skirmishers they will adopt the actual range values indicated. This was done for balancing reasons. Really? Okay, if you're sure, I'll go back in and take a closer look myself. My point still (mostly) stands then that to get best usage out of them you have to babysit them and find a good opportunity to get them in close for a flank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koro Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, Hitorishizuka said: Really? Okay, if you're sure, I'll go back in and take a closer look myself. My point still (mostly) stands then that to get best usage out of them you have to babysit them and find a good opportunity to get them in close for a flank. Sometimes you'll get shots out of the arc for some reason, but the arc is the same for all standard brigade units. I think it will shoot outside in fortications but then usually both units will have the extra range and it happens at other times too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitorishizuka Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 5 minutes ago, Koro said: Sometimes you'll get shots out of the arc for some reason, but the arc is the same for all standard brigade units. I think it will shoot outside in fortications but then usually both units will have the extra range and it happens at other times too Watch out Koro, that almost sounds like an actual reason to use fortifications. Well, okay, not really if they also get shot back outside of that range...actually I might've seen that too but chalked it up to elevation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koro Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 58 minutes ago, Hitorishizuka said: Watch out Koro, that almost sounds like an actual reason to use fortifications. Well, okay, not really if they also get shot back outside of that range...actually I might've seen that too but chalked it up to elevation. Ehehe :). The range units engage at is for sure longer than the arc for both sides. Not sure why. I've reported it as bugs several times, perhaps it will get a fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoverGrover Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 I had always chalked up some of that to range but I'm not sure. On the other hand, I have noticed that if your unit shoulders to fire,they will still loose a volley even if the enemy unit has run out of range since then, provided that the enemy unit was inside the arc at the start of the shoulder/fire animation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandermatt Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) So after the range normalization is discussed. What do you think is the answer to the original question? Edited January 11, 2017 by Sandermatt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralPITA Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 If you can pull together 2500 Fayettevilles, I'd say they're better than the Henry Repeaters. You'll be granted a detached skirmishers with extreme range, without endangering an officer. You also get a very efficient infantry brigade, but due to range normalization they'll be vulnerable to even M1842s, so keep them in cover and use them for flanking fire. Henry repeaters don't have a fantastic fire rate in this game. I expected it to be faster. Their range is too short, they get cut down unless you flank perfectly. If I was alive in 1861 and could only have one weapon? Give me a Henry. This is a game, give me Fayettevilles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandermatt Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 I never used the henry in practice. But the reloading stat is 3 times higher. You say it was nit that fast. Does this mean you cannot fire 3 bullets in the time the others fire 1, or in other words the reload time is not proportional to the weapon stat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. P. Hill Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 I think rifles should be restricted to actual times of appearance in history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Mercanto Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 The Spencer was actually a far better combat rifle then the Henry . The Henry's tubular system was very exposed and prone to jaming and malfunction. The firearms parts wore out easily, and while the rifle held twice as many rounds as the Spencer, it was more difficult to load. The Spencer's internal butt stock magazine allowed for easier reloading, and a magazine that was ensconced from environmental damage. Just wanted to spread some Spencer love since the Henry is getting so much attention . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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