BungeeLemming Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 The first time Ive seen this ship I fell in love to her. Its a little ship of the line - maybe the smallest SoL the dutch ever bothered to launch. (her class at least). But there appears to be no plans whatsoever. There are several plans of 50 gun SoLs but most of them just dont have the flavor of this particular vessel. https://www.rijksmuseum.nl/en/collection/NG-MC-656 If the real plans dont exist Id really love to see a 44 gun twodecker without any ewatherdeck guns. Means there is no prominent forecastle or quarterdeck. The image above has those two parts very suttle. Nothing "in your face" about it imo. Her sides look very clean. Maybe someone has plans to her or maybe knows some more about this class of ships. I am eager to learning more about her! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSamuelHood Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 A very beautiful ship. It would be interesting to see more ships of older design in-game. My only worry is that they suffer from the blight of being too high out of the water for its own good. That is, presenting too large a target and not having the firepower or armour to make up for it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BungeeLemming Posted January 2, 2017 Author Share Posted January 2, 2017 (edited) its a small vessel. main armament are 12pd guns on the main gundeck and 9pd on the upper deck. an interesting mix imo. just enough to be a pain to the other frigates - small enough to maybe be a good turning vessel. brits used a full 24pd carro layout on her btw. insanely crazy Edited January 2, 2017 by BungeeLemming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSamuelHood Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 That would help with speed and maneuverability. Do you know if she was used for escorting commerce? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Loe Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 She indeed looks very attractive with fine hull lines for sailing at any weather. Maybe you can find something here: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17149179#207924,39521405 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delaine Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 ship reminds me of the hector frig from potbs it also had a 12lb gundeck and a 9lb upper deck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlavDeng2 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Wind said: She indeed looks very attractive with fine hull lines for sailing at any weather. Maybe you can find something here: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17149179#207924,39521405 Unless she was captured by the danish, i kinda doubt it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelSandwich Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 20 minutes ago, OlavDeng2 said: Unless she was captured by the danish, i kinda doubt it Wind is giving some reference material, since the real plans are hard to find/not in existance. Speaking of references: 1782 1777 Hope these help^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Connor Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 I'm pretty sure Hector had an 18lb maindeck in Dutch service, the RN record lists her as a troopship when the 12 pdrs were fitted, and Hector is about the same size as British 18 pdr 44s. A 12 pdr ship would have been hopelessly obsolescent even in 1784, where 18 pdr types were still somewhat useful as small cheap vessels that outgunned most frigates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BungeeLemming Posted January 3, 2017 Author Share Posted January 3, 2017 hmm.. this one is as close as it gets.. At least for the time I spend looking through your link, wind. There are a few matches with just a bit more guns. https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17149179#208788,39522283 Overall its a gold mine for interesting and beautiful plans. big question for me: How to get information about thi? Its plan A668 - where can I look for details?.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sella Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, BungeeLemming said: hmm.. this one is as close as it gets.. At least for the time I spend looking through your link, wind. There are a few matches with just a bit more guns. https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17149179#208788,39522283 Overall its a gold mine for interesting and beautiful plans. big question for me: How to get information about thi? Its plan A668 - where can I look for details?.. The only way that i know of is to buy the book or the series from the Danish Museum/Archives (i think) that has a detailed list of all the plans. (The link is random): https://fkb.dk/ting/object/870970-basis%3A28635370 Title: Orlogsflådens skibe gennem 500 år Den dansk-norske flåde 1510-1814 og den danske flåde 1814-2010. Author : Henrik Christiansen ISBN : 978 87 89022 78 5 Published : 2010 Pages : 253+305+279 Or if you are lucky through here: http://www.orlogsbasen.dk/enkel.htm Its in danish but you'll manage. Some of the entries include the coding. For example: And then you can use Wind's link. I had another one with the full list but i've lost it. Here the link for the example: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17149179#208161,39521644 Usually plans with the format a1198a,a1198b, etc are of the same ship but that's not always the case. Try and read the inscriptions. Sometimes the name,the date and other info are readable so it will help you with not mixing them up. Hope that helps. Good luck! Edited January 3, 2017 by Sella22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BungeeLemming Posted January 3, 2017 Author Share Posted January 3, 2017 hmm.. a quick search gave me this: http://www.orlogsbasen.dk/Stor.asp apparently a british design. thanks a LOT, Sella. I am digging that homepage. very nice stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSamuelHood Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 I really like the looks of these ships. It would be interesting to see more 'obsolete' lighter ships of the line with 44-62 guns. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelSandwich Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 For those interested, i visited the museum where this model was displayed (don't mind the lower quality): On this picture i unknowingly, on the far right, captured her stern: The picture shows a rather typical design in which elongated windows are used. A good reference, imo, would the following drawing: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus McGregor Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 For the life of me I cannot understand why they would design warships with a completely glass... uhhh, derriere. Such an obvious and easily remedied flaw. At the very least put a heavy bulkhead between the rear cabins and the gun decks. What was the thinking of the time that made them keep doing it? Just so the captain had enough light to admire himself in a mirror? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Loe Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Please check this source as well: https://www.flickr.com/photos/49225014@N05/albums/with/72157632134773565 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talos Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, Angus McGregor said: For the life of me I cannot understand why they would design warships with a completely glass... uhhh, derriere. Such an obvious and easily remedied flaw. At the very least put a heavy bulkhead between the rear cabins and the gun decks. What was the thinking of the time that made them keep doing it? Just so the captain had enough light to admire himself in a mirror? There were several reasons, but one involves the way the stern of the ships were constructed. Even a planked-in stern like you would see on a smaller flush-decked sloop or a brig is structurally far weaker than the sides of the ship with that construction method. It wasn't until the invention of the round and eliptical sterns in the 1800s that the weak point was entirely eliminated (though that also created a new weakpoint in the exposed and vulnerable head of the rudder), and the new sterns just as tough as the sides. The guns also go almost all the way back, plus you need to be able to shift them aft to be stern chasers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 38 minutes ago, Angus McGregor said: For the life of me I cannot understand why they would design warships with a completely glass... uhhh, derriere. Such an obvious and easily remedied flaw. At the very least put a heavy bulkhead between the rear cabins and the gun decks. What was the thinking of the time that made them keep doing it? Just so the captain had enough light to admire himself in a mirror? Easily remedied? Nothing can remedy the geometric problem of enfilading fire, and from this perspective the bow is equally vulnerable. Remember that no wooden warship hull is expected to resist cannon fire from near-peer opponents in normal circumstances. So even a ship with fully-armored stern could still be raked effectively, it's just that grapeshot would be less useful. A bulkhead would obstruct the handling of the guns, but also the day-to-day process of working the ship, with regards (on some frigates) to anchor cables, etc. And the roundshot would still punch through. But the main reason is that the threat of raking fire was not such a serious motivator as modern videogamers make it out to be. Otherwise designers would have tackled the flaw. The open stern galleries were useful every day of the ship's decades-long career, while the likelihood of losing a battle due to a raking broadside was relatively remote. There's a reason people bring up one specific scenario at Trafalgar when discussing the threat of stern raking, as opposed to other examples from frigate duels. Raking was more often the follow-up move to disabling an opponent, rather than the means of disabling one. Ships would conclude a duel by lying ahead or astern of the enemy, firing into a helpless opponent who count not return fire. This made it clear that further resistance was hopeless. This tactic was used against the bow or quarter as often as the stern, because the crucial element was not deadly enfilading fire, but the blind spot of the enemy's guns. Frigates would also rake shoot ahead to rake the enemy's bow in single combat, which is a suicidal move in Naval Action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus McGregor Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Okay - thanks for the explanations. Dispels a few myths in my head that have been there quite a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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