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Dynamic map suggestions


Koro

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It's been called for a bit on the various forums and I thought I'd add my own suggestions to perhaps inspire some ways battle could be more dynamic.

The static battles like Gaine's Mill and Malvern Hill work well because all of the battle flags, the strategic points, stay in place and can be fought over and counterattacked throughout the battle as desired. There is no need to change those types of maps really.

The issue is with the battles where the flags disappear once the phase ends and in this context I'll discuss Shiloh a little bit since it's the most obvious here.

Currently as the Union, you are told to retreat further and further and finally end up at Pittsburg Landing. The flags disappear along the way and if you should manage to hold the frontal line, you are still "teleported" back to the Landing once the 1. day ends. This is arguably a step back from Gettysburg where the forces ended up at the locations they were in the previous battles (this being slightly buggy though but nvm. that).

Here, the challenge is, that the battles play out in one long expanding map so there is no phases in between and the flags disappear so they can't be "held" throughout the battle.

I suggest two solutions to this, the first one being the simplest and the second one being more interesting and emulating the choices from UGG.

So the first solution simply leaves all flags on the field to be held on the second day or third day as the battle progresses. The player will be told he can choose to counterattack against any lost flags as the battle progresses or he can follow the gameplan that is currently in place.

This would allow the Union player at Shiloh f.x. to reenact the counterattack against the Confederate left flank or even make a speculative counterattack on the right to regain any lost ground.

This would also allow a Union 1. day victory which is sorely missing, which would be helped by this suggestion. If you hold the 3 outer points, where your starting line is, it's a victory on day 1. If the Union had held that ground after the 1. day, I think the Confederates would not have renewed their attacks.

 

The second option requires more but would create a sort of strategic handbook in which you could choose flags that you want to have reappear on the map to be capturable. Say at Bull Run, I want to recapture Matthew's Hill and hold the line there, I can ask for the flag to appear in the next phase f.x. and then prepare my counterattack. Little would have to be changed as the battles currently progress except the flags would reappear and would be capturable, to also be held on any proceeding days of battle.

 

In the long term, I'm worried such battles as Gettysburg can only be fought out historically too which would be a shame. What if I want to fight the battle on the outer ridges or counterattack to drive them back? Any of these two options would give that to me but currently I see a scenario playing out, where even if I manage to hold the outer ridges on day 1, I will be teleported back to Cemetery Hill on day 2. (I have no idea how Gettysburg works in this game but from what I've seen so far, this seems likely).

With the flags still in place after day one, the game "knows" where my units are and as such, I'll be able to continue the fight from whichever ground I managed to hold on day 1. This would allow all of the "what if's" of UGG to be played out as well.

Thanks for reading :).

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I think you touch on some good points there.

 

Shiloh is a good example - just yesterday I played the historical battle as the Union and I was pleased when it became clear that at the end of Day 1, I had held the line and never needed to fall back to Pitt's Landing. Imagine my dismay when, on the second day, my troops had deemed it necessary to abandon all those positions during the night! While ultimately I inflicted far more casualties over the course of the second day than I otherwise would have (including capturing several southern brigades), I would have been quite content to have remained in my original fortifications, to say nothing of the digital families of all the little sprites that I did lose retaking the positions I had held the previous day. So, I think you are absolutely correct that the battles need at least some dynamism for situations like that.

 

Gettysburg, as you point out, is the other obvious example despite it not yet being in this game. As the army commander, it should be well within your ability to adopt a different strategy or plan than was historically used. UG:G did make serious overtures to allowing that: you had at least a couple options which dictated the flow the battle would take. The most obvious here is that under the current UG:CW structure, it seems very likely that as long as everything is "sort of" historical, Gettysburg will culminate in Longstreet's Assault on Cemetery Ridge. I think that the Confederate player (or AI for that matter) should have, at each appropriate time, the opportunity to do what General Longstreet advocated should have been done in the first place, and attempt to flank the Union Army. A Confederate player should not be forced to replay Lee's mistake. Conversely, a skilled Union player should have the possibility of holding the Confederates at arm's length north of Gettysburg.

 

Finally, a point not addressed in the original post, but which might make for interesting play is the rough ability of subordinate generals in  your divisions or other corps to not do what you tell them to do. Remember that Sickles was not supposed to advance the III Corps into the Peach Orchard at Gettysburg, and there were numerous other examples in both attack and defense where troops arrived in the wrong place, late, or not at all. While this would certainly make things a lot harder for the player, it would simulate realism (examples I can think of offhand include Jackson's late arrivals during the Seven Days, Magrude's incompetence during the same, Porter's alleged mis-aimed attacks at Second Bull Run...the list goes on). To build upon this, it would be interesting if there were more characteristics to your unit commanders than just those currently assigned by veterancy. So, a general who might be quick on the march is also not well-liked by his men and so while he might arrive earlier than expected, his troops have lower morale. The opposite might be true as well, keeping with my current example, so that while you might have a pretty good division commander, you finally relieve him because you've lost one too many battles where he didn't arrive in time.

 

Anyway, just a couple extra thoughts.

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I was totally fine with the dynamic map during my union campaign.

But for the South it totally sucked on my motivation. At Shilo my brave boys made it all the way to Pittsburgh Landing. I took a very high toll in losses and with a last hurray I made it onto the victory location. It was just a few (real time) seconds before the next battle phase. 

Suddenly my two corps warped back, in one case even so far they needed a terribly long time to get back and put pressure on the Union.

I had them enveloped before. I was in possession of the barricades and artillery positions. And with one click...back to 0 or at least 0,5.

NOT appreciated. I don't want to save and reload at all during my rebel try. But this draw is really annoying and feels unjust. Especially since I can't afford to refill all my losses as I would like to now.

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