15 min ROE - ASAP!

[fox2run]

Change the ROE back to 15 min timers - ASAP!

Easy access to pvp is better than no access to pvp. As unpredictable and gamey this feature might be, it created fun in at least three ways:

1) It was easy to sail out - looking for some swords - and enter the fray - right away - no delay.

2) The social aspect. When a player got attacked he could cry for help on forums and friends in the nations set sail and helped him out. It was fun and exciting - a game versus time... At Facebook I saw a commercial for a game which core was just that: to help your friends in battles. 

3) The nation had a common goal regardless of clans - it gave some spirit in the game. 

Yes - its too gamey for some. Yes its unpredictable if you attack a lonely trader and a fleet of 25 1st rate comes by. But hey: it was fun/terrible that worked both ways. Make ships slighty cheaper and expand the joining timer to at least 15 min. Its my 2 cents. Now nobody plays the game anymore. Its simply not the fun it was once.

 

Edited November 10, 2016 by fox2run

[fox2run]

Seems like a good idea (maybe) - we need to fight eachother not chase around for hours.

[fox2run]

To be honest i like the fights. I dont care much about distances... Now we need to come up with a lobby-system or more teleports between free towns just to make the game accecible again. Its a dead product. If I was head of the marketing of this game, the 15 min timers would be reinstalled ASAP! 

 

Hell - we where 2000+ online back then..

Now its like 200-300 that cant find eacother in a big, boring dead world of nothing. 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2016 by fox2run

[fox2run]

Hodo - pls trust me. The game was so fun that they needed more servers. When the timers where cut the players online declined very rapidly. They merged servers but cut timers even more. Now the game is a shadow of what it was before.

I know that 15 min timers has its flaws. But rather that than a dead game. 

But of course if you liked to get rid of the more action-orientated players, you suceeded. They are gone...

 

 

[Ned Loe]

36 minutes ago, Hodo said:

I think this is horrible.  Almost as bad as the social perk idea was. 

 

It makes ZERO sense that a ship that sets sail from Kingston can join a fight in Haiti some 100+ nautical miles away.   And yes you can make the sail from KPR to Tiburon Haiti in 15min with a favorable wind.   

I think you see Naval Action as true sailing simulator. Unfortunately, only minority will enjoy this concept. You simply saying yes to gank fest and saying no to friends helping friends. 

[TommyShelby]

3 minutes ago, fox2run said:

Hodo - pls trust me. The game was so fun that they needed more servers. When the timers where cut the players online declined very rapidly. They merged servers but cut timers even more. Now the game is a shadow of what it was before.

I know that 15 min timers has its flaws. But rather that than a dead game. 

But of course if you liked to get rid of the more action-orientated players, you suceeded. They are gone...

 

"Trust you"?... Why? You got more experience and knowledge than everyone else? 

Look, yes there was 2000+ people at one point. Funny thing is, that was right after Naval Action was released on Steam Early Access. 

Lots of people stopped playing since then and somehow you think it is only due to Battle Timers?... Sad. Sad sad sad. 

 

Let me tell you how a battle went with longer timers:
- Someone attacks me (Or us if i was in a group).
- We spend 5-15 minutes (depending on timer) at max tagging range waiting for the battle to close.
- When Battle Close we decide whether or not to engage the enemy.  

Different Scenario:
- I attack someone (Or we if i was in a group).
- We spend 5-15 minutes (depending on timer) at max tagging range waiting for the battle to close.
- When Battle Close we decide whether or not to engage the enemy.  

Different Scenario again: 
- Social Perk introduced. 
- I attack someone or i get attacked. 
- Spend 30 minutes at max tagging range in case they have Social Perk.
- After 30 minutes, decide whether or not to engage the enemy.

How to abuse long timers 101.
- Form 10-15 Man Fleet (Or bigger).
- Have 2 ships sail 3-5 minutes ahead of fleet. (Bait).
- 2 Ships attack someone or enemy fleet attacks 2 ships because they think there is only 2 ships.
- Main Fleet sail to battle and jumps in and there you go, great fun for everyone no?.

 

Current system is awesome. Absolutely awesome in my opinion. "What you see is what you get". 

[Enraged Ewok]

9 minutes ago, fox2run said:

Hodo - pls trust me. The game was so fun that they needed more servers. When the timers where cut the players online declined very rapidly. They merged servers but cut timers even more. Now the game is a shadow of what it was before.

I know that 15 min timers has its flaws. But rather that than a dead game. 

But of course if you liked to get rid of the more action-orientated players, you suceeded. They are gone...

 

They added more servers due to an issue that wasn't actually there: people AFKing ingame and causing other players to wait an inordinate amount of time to log in. That was solved by AFK timers, not by adding more servers. The game was also fresh off Steam release at that time, with all the hype and population surge that comes with it. Look at every game launched since Naval Action on Steam. Massive initial population as all the lemmings move to the next "New" thing, followed by a steady or in same cases immediate drop weeks or months later as the next "New" thing comes out. The game was not magically more fun back then, and population drop due to ROE changes a massive stretch of logic at best. The current ROE we have is the best we have ever had, and most fun for me. I don't want the entire RN joining my frigate duel. With old ROE, ganking was worse, people still camped in battle screens, and people ran just as much as they do now. Nothing's changed except we know our odds of success outright instead of having to wait 5 minutes before deciding whether or not we can actually engage without getting dogpiled 49v1.

[akd]

I've pointed out again and again that population has been falling as they have been adding new ships to the game.  Remove all the new ships before the game dies!

[Alex Connor]

The social perk absolutely killed solo/small group PvP for me. Fighting when an enemy fleet can sail from hundreds of miles away to drop in on top of your 1v1 with 0 warning? Yeah, not even going to try.

New ROE is fantastic, brilliant change to the game. Good honest fights, what you see is what you get.

The only people complaining are players who only went out to PvP as reinforcements for allies being attacked when they could be sure to "revenge" gank with overwhelming numbers.

[fox2run]

Come up with some ideas then. I have like 1-2 hours to play. I like to fight in a big battle with my SOL. Make it happen!

Please.

[Pada]

What i want to see is fair fights.

Bring back the BR balance, battle stays open until the inferior side gets near the BR of the other side. We tested this before and did not like it because of splitting (players got locked out of battle because they did not get sucked in) but the new second ring solves this.

Can we not try this again with the new ROE please?

Edit: Or maybe bring back the Social Perk with that abilities.

Edited November 10, 2016 by Pada

[fox2run]

No one is using them becourse they dont work. In a lobby you will see a list of battles you can join. Here you need to match other players within a special time-frame. You cant see who is there and you log off in time not to meet cpt Blood (the AI captain).

Well - I guess the game isnt for me so much.

Its ok. Its a narrow game for players with little to do in real life. 

Games are suppose to be fun. Not work.

But again: come with suggestions to make more players play battles, go online. To fight it out. Now the game is as you like it with almost no one in it.

Edit: this was a reply to Hodo.

 

Edited November 10, 2016 by fox2run

[Jacob Elston]

My suggestion is a reinforcement mechanic.

When a battle is started it is closed like the current ROE. However, after X amount of minutes it will open up again to reinforcements.

The choice then is do we open the battle up after something like 15 minutes with reinforcements spawning in a fair good distance away OR after maybe 25-30 minutes and they spawn in the spot the battle started.

 

1 hour ago, Wind said:

I think you see Naval Action as true sailing simulator. Unfortunately, only minority will enjoy this concept. You simply saying yes to gank fest and saying no to friends helping friends. 

You say minority but I see plenty of people voicing their opposition to the 15 minute timers.

Having a battle open to all sides for 15 minutes makes solo PvP almost impossible and ships sailing from the long distance to join a fight which in reality would be hundreds of miles away is way beyond a joke. Obviously its a game, not a simulator, but even so it is rather ridiculous and kills solo and small group PvP.

My suggestion above allows for solo/small group PvP while also leaving the possibility of an escalating battle later on.

Also, it they added a kick out timer to battlescreens with ships appearing further away from where the battle started then this removes battlescreen camping and reduces the risk of "revenge" fleet camping too.

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2016 by Jacob Elston

[Mrdoomed]

I simply cant take anything the OP says seriously .  Every idea he has is either to turn this insto world of warships or its geared to getting him the most help he can get in fight . 

HE acually argues bother both sides of some issues in separate posts all in the name of 15 vs15 or 7vs7 moba syle fights or to let people and ai rescue him.

I really hope the team dont take his ideas seriously anymore because the more easy this game gets it dies off with each breath.

[Ser_Slack]

The game blows now. Some peoples vision of the game (see loudest, most vocal) is what is going to tank it. Personally, I'm losing interest fast as has the vast majority of my clan (Black) not to mention the server. But, hey, have fun boys you have gotten what you've desired.

[Ser_Slack]

Tell me Hodo whats the difference between a group of guys/gals sailing together and ATTEMPTING to find pvp and a  "gank fleet". Having a few runners scouting for the larger, slower ships was almost always fun. It actually took some teamwork and tactics. Now we ain't got shit. You wanna sail by yourself in your gdamn mercury or suprise more power to you but this is an MMO. If you don't band together with people your always gonna be at a disadvantage our aim was always be victors and not victims. Other nations can't get their shit together (see Britain) and thats our fault? How much resistance is Britain getting now in the regions its taking? Somehow your nation couldn't get SOLs made under the OLD crafting rules and now thats gonna change and we're gonna see a large uptick in PVP? Ya, no.

And as for taking ships after reset under the old system, we have aussies in our clan (glad to have them), I suppose they just shouldn't play and just pve. Britain had it's share of Aussies in the past you just couldn't retain them. Not our fault again.

Whats gonna be the draw for people when this game goes into official release? If we can't even get people who have bought the game to come back and check out the changes (and retain them) what makes you think we'll have fresh blood? We've talked about this alot on TS. What we got is what we got there's not gonna be a huge influx of players. Not gonna happen.

Granted, I'm willing to concede that a wipe on the near horizon has people not wanting to even log on just to have their shit disappear soon. Not worth the time. I don't want to play 4+ hours every evening anymore in the current system.

[Rramsha]

The issue is that this is not space combat where a small interceptor is able to "warp disrupt" a lone ship, which then allows a larger fleet to warp into its location to finish it off.

 

If you are having issues getting your fleet into combat then you are sailing the wrong ships. Try sailing smaller faster ships, and stay close together. Remember there is no real way a large fleet of large ships would ever be able to catch a smaller faster single ship. However it was possible in the age of sail for a fast ship to pick off fleet members slowly by choosing his engagement wisely and only engaging ships from the fleet that were too far away to be helped. If you read stories of combat during the age of sail it was quite common for fleets to be spread out enough that when one of the ships of the fleet engaged the enemy, it would be a one on one battle, with reinforcements very far away. The purpose of the fleet is to be able to scan a large portion of ocean not necessarily to focus firepower. If focusing firepower is what the purpose of the fleet is, then it would sail together in close formation.

Now I am not gonna deny that the wipe will lower all around game time for many, however there are indeed some quirks to the current mechanics that must be fixed and slowly ironed out, but the major portion of the game is not broken at all in my belief.

Edited November 10, 2016 by Rramsha

[Ser_Slack]

 Popping out of the results screen IS adapting, improvising, and overcoming. It's a result of Britain not being able to scrape a few guys together and going out and meeting a foe. Honestly, a member of the British nation on pvp2 using that line is laughable. The only players with a pair was your nations newbs. As a result we let most of them past. How many days did we sit outside kpr waiting for you guys to get your act together? If you don't pvp your not gonna get any better at pvp. You could have easily gotten ships together in the safe zone and came out and sink us. Nope, didn't happen. Instead you guys allied with the other large nation and pulled 10 flags at a time. Sat forever in the evenings hoping you guys would pull Morant or Antonio just for alittle action. Rarity. And, again, this was all under the old crafting system where there were no shortages for anyone. Last night I logged on around 9pm central to a pop of 60ish. Just logged off.

Not to mention I believe it was you who said that taking ports is how to win(I may be mistaken). So we played that game. Yippie, we won I guess. 

Also, for the record, I like alot of the changes with the recent patches. Not all but some. Not a fan of the big ring, instant close, compass wood part of forest RNG and lack of trader AI.

[Ser_Slack]

8 minutes ago, Hodo said:

Not going to get into a pissing contest with you here, because I was in several fights.  I can PVP, and I still do PVP.   I remember those fleets of 1st rates sitting outside of KPR.  Talking trash, and attacking every 6th rate that would sail by.   I remember how you all said you wanted PVP but when ever we caught you all one on one you ran.   Hmm.. so you want PvP but you don't want PvP on even terms but only on your terms.  Yeah that works.   You adapted like T-Rex adapted to the ice age. 

 

And last night when I was on there was around 130.  We had a couple of good fights outside or Salenas in Crooked.  For the past week I have been getting fights around La Tortue.   But I guess you don't like that because it isn't camping noobs so you can chest thump and feel good about yourself. 

 

 

LoL, ya ok. Hope you continue to enjoy the direction the games going because your comments reflect satisfaction. Unfortunatly, most dont from the numbers.

[Ser_Slack]

3 minutes ago, Hodo said:

Well sorry to see you go but don't let the gang plank hit you in the rear on the way out.

Don't fret I'm keeping an eyeball on things.

[Havelock]

Long timers hurt the battle. I think the best solution would be:

 

1. Battle Timer of 5 mins (so you can still help players getting attacked close to a port)

2. You can only enter if your side has less than x1,2 BR (or maybe x1,35 for battles <1000BR, x1,3 for battles <3000BR, and so on until a cap)

3. This rule does NOT apply to the OW tag, everyone in the circle gets in

4. Add a protection zone around Free Towns like in capitals, the camping is getting ridiculous

[Ser_Slack]

And to be clear I'm not advocating for a 15 min timer either. 5 seems like a reasonable timer. People were having fun. And you could get a response fleet together if your territory was being "raided".

[Rramsha]

You can have a battle timer open for 5 min... but those reinforcing ships better arrive in the instance, in the distance with 5 min sailing time to reach the battle. No one wants reinforcements dropping in on top of them like some SciFi hyperspace jump. That was the original problem.

If I am not mistaken, the Devs mentioned that because land is currently in the battle instances that they can not push reinforcements out into the distance because people would spawn on land inside the instance.In addition, the Devs also mentioned that they would have to get rid of land inside the battle instance, which NO ONE wanted, in order to fix the issue. Due to this, the large battle circle was born.

Also in response to the 5 minutes, I don't think any one truly realizes how far 5 min in the open world is. It encompasses an insanely huge area.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Rramsha

[Mrdoomed]

9 hours ago, Ser_Slack said:

And to be clear I'm not advocating for a 15 min timer either. 5 seems like a reasonable timer. People were having fun. And you could get a response fleet together if your territory was being "raided".

5 minute timer was horrible unless you are a port hugger or sail around with a ton of fleets. 2 minutes wasnt to bad but still allowed for massive exploits. the new two circle system would be pretty good IF it would dosomething about ai all over getting pulled in.  It keeps away port hugging gankers and revenge fleets have a much harder time ganking you.

[Ser_Slack]

5 minutes ago, Mrdoomed said:

5 minute timer was horrible unless you are a port hugger or sail around with a ton of fleets. 2 minutes wasnt to bad but still allowed for massive exploits. the new two circle system would be pretty good IF it would dosomething about ai all over getting pulled in.  It keeps away port hugging gankers and revenge fleets have a much harder time ganking you.

It's true to an extent no doubt. Its never going to make everyone happy. And for your style of play I could see why you'd want insta-close. For my style I don't. Everytime I'd sail out with friends on a hunt I'm fully committed to losing my ship in battle as long as we had a good scrape. And we got it alot of times. Sometimes it was hilarious because under some of the iterations of ow tagging (see BR limiting from months ago) the revenge fleet could never get rid of us. I'm not sure what the answer is but either way some people won't be happy.