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Forthcoming shipbuilding changes [Heavily Moderated]


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Im willing to test this it could be good imo. In the past the devs implemented more stuff which created a discussion like this and in the end in turned out great.

What I think is more important know is a little more detail about this wipe so we can prevent players from wasting their time:

ETA - days weeks months would be a start

Removed ships - what do we get in return? LBHs, materials , resource, nothing?

If we get nothing, people will only build materials and labor contract and when this rolls out they will build 20 ships in 1 day. Or will you also wipe all materials labor contracts?

If we get materials, resources or lbhrs in return, people will still build ships and the game can continue

Im happy to test this, but please let us know what to expect

 

Personally, if we're already removing most ships in player docks, I'd rather go full hog and do the full asset wipe. Avoid all this bickering and whining about compensation for an action  that SHOULD be implicitly understood to be part of early access development.

Edited by Henry d'Esterre Darby
Removed response to moderated content. Let's stay on topic please.
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Do the craft changes and do the wipe, but don't leave the players with a basic cutter and handfull of pieces of gold. Remove ships and return them in "kits", like redeem a vic and get all the mats for a vic so you can build a new one.

 

An ammo limit I would not be fond of, its another thing to cut the lenght of a battle, if your crew, sails or hull don't "run out" it'll be your ammo you'll be running out off. It might be realistic, but imagine being a broadside short of sinking someone and having to flee the battle to not get killed/capped yourself. Would however understand (and maybe appreciate) a limit on chain & grape like we have on double charge and double shot.

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Honestly the only reason i play this game at the moment is to theory craft and figure out what builds i like and what builds are most effective in battle. The game changing(breaking) crafting ideas you guys come up with ever so often makes this impossible. Why cant you devs ever stick with anything? If you go ahead with these changes I'm done. Ive wasted so many hours theory crafting at this point that I'm not sure I even want to give it another try in the future.

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Do the craft changes and do the wipe, but don't leave the players with a basic cutter and handfull of pieces of gold. Remove ships and return them in "kits", like redeem a vic and get all the mats for a vic so you can build a new one.

 

An ammo limit I would not be fond of, its another thing to cut the lenght of a battle, if your crew, sails or hull don't "run out" it'll be your ammo you'll be running out off. It might be realistic, but imagine being a broadside short of sinking someone and having to flee the battle to not get killed/capped yourself. Would however understand (and maybe appreciate) a limit on chain & grape like we have on double charge and double shot.

That's where 'Default' reduced damage ammo comes in place. When you run out, you will AUTO switch to 'Default'.  'Default' ammo should be smaller and lighter and will be on every ship until you buy much better Player crafted ammo in Port. That was my idea on how to deal with limited ammo. Potbs uses the same system and people love it.  

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With this announcement about forthcoming shipbuilding changes and the view of loosing all our ships, makes the other announcement about the upcoming hotfix which makes all exc. ships 3/5 a bit sarcastic.

 

 

We will remove the minor randomness in upgrade slots in the next hot fix. If you want to have full control over upgrade slots please delay ship crafting until the hotfix. ETA this Wednesday or Thursday (2-3 Nov). 

 

 

 

Once this system is coded in all old ships and some upgrades will become unusable due to database changes and will have to be removed from the game. 

 

 

So why should I wait with crafting until any hotfix when those ships will be removed anyway. 

 

 

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Te very great problem at the moment is that people have not time to  do this great job of transfering of goods.. the other mechanics are good.. my question is; why you don't put your attention in this problem and try to think in a solution to improve the speed of play this game instead of think these stupid thinks like limited ammo.. you are loosing players !! and a game without players is not a game.. do something to improve the trading and transfer speed between ports..This is what we need. 

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there will be a lot more granularity in new system.

right now its yellow 3-5 or nothing

 

and you are wrong sir, that is simply the quality of ship not the build. many of us theory crafters would like to see the quality stay and allow more flexibility to the actual build of the ship. people pay for gold ships because they are the best QUALITY! Please stop breaking the game.

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Dear Developers,

I do not write much on the forum, my English is very bad, but I have accumulated 1600 hours on your / our game and I consider myself sufficiently in the right to challenge some of your recent choices.

The game has enormous potential, this is a fact, but sometimes it seems that you will do everything to convince your testers to abandon it! What to say about the game mechanics that you do not make clear, making it difficult to test! But this is the minimum, and might even be acceptable. What is not acceptable is your total inability to "repay" the NA players testing work!

With the latest patch we have had to move all of our outposts (boring and long time), we have all turned into traders (from pvpers) in search of rare materials to have the possibility to craft gold ships! Practically activities for me uninteresting but necessary to be able to sustain a decent pvp! Now you announced again that all the crafting will be again changed! So what I've tested so far? Unnecessary work? Hours spent watching the sea for nothing? But that's okay, we have to test ... and then I would start all over again? Add to this that in any case before the release there will be a total wipe! You will say that you have always said that, it's true, but let me ask you: I paid to support you in the development, I spent hours "unnecessary" and "boring" to test and help make the game better (although it is true that I had also a lot of fun on many occasions), and all this to see canceled all my progress? Do you think that for me and many other fans, it will be fun to play again in a cutter? I do not think so! And how do you plan to start from nothing a game with only players in cutter and without resources? How do we will face port battle in the first few days? So my request is that you would like to consider the possibility of rewarding the most loyal players in NA, to repay their "patience" and their "job" of testers, for once granting them some "reward" when the game is released. Otherwise I think you'll have to give up a large portion of players who will not be available to start all over again.

In order, therefore, for once try to "give" something (even if only in the future), and not just to "take."

I'm sure you will want to consider what I say and that is what a lot of experienced players feel as well, players who would like to continue playing even after the official release.

Good work!

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I don't think you should abandon colors on modules. If you use a captured ship, you want to put junky modules on.

And in the case of modules such as marines, gold isn't always the best. I often use green or blue.

Other than that, absolutely love the idea.

No to 1 dur ships.

Edited by Anne Wildcat
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Te very great problem at the moment is that people have not time to  do this great job of transfering of goods.. the other mechanics are good.. my question is; why you don't put your attention in this problem and try to think in a solution to improve the speed of play this game instead of think these stupid thinks like limited ammo.. you are loosing players !! and a game without players is not a game.. do something to improve the trading and transfer speed between ports..This is what we need. 

Players are taking a break from the development process. I have guys from my clan who refuse to participate in development and only will play when game is ready. They know they can't handle it. 

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That's where 'Default' reduced damage ammo comes in place. When you run out, you will AUTO switch to 'Default'.  'Default' ammo should be smaller and lighter and will be on every ship until you buy much better Player crafted ammo in Port. That was my idea on how to deal with limited ammo. Potbs uses the same system and people love it.  

You keep waving the awesome system of PotBS in our faces every thread - I ask you - How is PotBS currently doing? - This should be a very simple question/answer to your idea - it is obviously not so great or people would be playing that instead!

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Dear Developers,
I do not write much on the forum, my English is very bad, but I have accumulated 1600 hours on your / our game and I consider myself sufficiently in the right to challenge some of your recent choices.
The game has enormous potential, this is a fact, but sometimes it seems that you will do everything to convince your testers to abandon it! What to say about the game mechanics that you do not make clear, making it difficult to test! But this is the minimum, and might even be acceptable. What is not acceptable is your total inability to "repay" the NA players testing work!
With the latest patch we have had to move all of our outposts (boring and long time), we have all turned into traders (from pvpers) in search of rare materials to have the possibility to craft gold ships! Practically activities for me uninteresting but necessary to be able to sustain a decent pvp! Now you announced again that all the crafting will be again changed! So what I've tested so far? Unnecessary work? Hours spent watching the sea for nothing? But that's okay, we have to test ... and then I would start all over again? Add to this that in any case before the release there will be a total wipe! You will say that you have always said that, it's true, but let me ask you: I paid to support you in the development, I spent hours "unnecessary" and "boring" to test and help make the game better (although it is true that I had also a lot of fun on many occasions), and all this to see canceled all my progress? Do you think that for me and many other fans, it will be fun to play again in a cutter? I do not think so! And how do you plan to start from nothing a game with only players in cutter and without resources? How do we will face port battle in the first few days? So my request is that you would like to consider the possibility of rewarding the most loyal players in NA, to repay their "patience" and their "job" of testers, for once granting them some "reward" when the game is released. Otherwise I think you'll have to give up a large portion of players who will not be available to start all over again.
In order, therefore, for once try to "give" something (even if only in the future), and not just to "take."
I'm sure you will want to consider what I say and that is what a lot of experienced players feel as well, players who would like to continue playing even after the official release.
Good work!

 

Cool thing is that testers don't know what in the end of the tunnel. :)

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You keep waving the awesome system of PotBS in our faces every thread - I ask you - How is PotBS currently doing? - This should be a very simple question/answer to your idea - it is obviously not so great or people would be playing that instead!

I give examples that might work here. What's lost is lost forever. 

Edited by Henry d'Esterre Darby
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If they put ammunition limits into this game, I'm out.

Relax. They want to make this a game that's good for fighting.

Not a crafter, so the rest doesn't really concern me. Ships are ships, doesn't matter what type it is as long as it bloody sails.

It does concern you because after this change you will get easier access to (close to) perfect ships, it's not like that now.

Those of the most elite PvPers will end up receiving any benefits from going to events- that's a simple fact. So good luck to any other poor sod who tries his hand at it.

You won't be left out. Most of my forum politics is about taking power away from the rich elite or powergamers, well, not "taking away" but many of us fight to enable normal players thus limiting the advantages players like myself enjoy.

Have faith!

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Relax. They want to make this a game that's good for fighting.

 

 

 

ammo supply will work like double charges

 

we find it very strange that a cutter can fire 10000 shots in battle. We believe it should be a player choice. If you want your ship to be a little bit faster or agile and you are confident that you shoot well take less shots per gun. (But they will still refill after every battle to save your time) they will only matter in the instance). 

 

Same with the unbalanced ships potential.. if you remember the gunboat capsizes this bug could be spread to all ships - make your ship too fast (lots of sails) you might capsize if you don't control wind pressure at extreme angles of heel

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ammo supply will work like double charges

 

we find it very strange that a cutter can fire 10000 shots in battle. We believe it should be a player choice. If you want your ship to be a little bit faster or agile and you are confident that you shoot well take less shots per gun. (But they will still refill after every battle to save your time) they will only matter in the instance). 

 

Same with the unbalanced ships potential.. if you remember the gunboat capsizes this bug could be spread to all ships - make your ship too fast (lots of sails) you might capsize if you don't control wind pressure at extreme angles of heel

Agree, by adding dump guns+ammo overboard to regain speed could be a cool feature as well. Something like last stand. 

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Same with the unbalanced ships potential.. if you remember the gunboat capsizes this bug could be spread to all ships - make your ship too fast (lots of sails) you might capsize if you don't control wind pressure at extreme angles of heel

This sounds so good. Like deselecting stall limiter in flightsims.

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I'm all for ammunition considerations, but they should be scaled for this game.  If you want to put realistic shot and powder limits, it will probably drastically reduce the effectiveness of many ships because of the increased speed of battle.    It is a game and that should be remembered.

 

Regarding this new crafting  methodology, my first reaction was "It's too much".  But after a little more consideration I think it could work.  However, can we have increased ship capacity in our outposts so that we can actually use the different ship types?  I'm also concerned because of your focus on hold size and weight reductions.  Does this mean I'll have to make even MORE trips back and forth from enemy waters to an outpost?  As it stands, I sail out for at least ten to fifteen minutes, then get a couple of battles if I'm lucky, then turn around and come back.  Make the added weight of shot and powder affect speed by all means, but leave my hold space alone!  

 

 

ammo supply will work like double charges

 

we find it very strange that a cutter can fire 10000 shots in battle. We believe it should be a player choice. If you want your ship to be a little bit faster or agile and you are confident that you shoot well take less shots per gun. (But they will still refill after every battle to save your time) they will only matter in the instance). 

 

Same with the unbalanced ships potential.. if you remember the gunboat capsizes this bug could be spread to all ships - make your ship too fast (lots of sails) you might capsize if you don't control wind pressure at extreme angles of heel

 

I do get that a cutter shouldn't be firing 10,000 shots.  I haven't seen that myself.  But I do think there should be a balance to reality and gameplay mechanics. 

Edited by Edward Canaday
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ammo supply will work like double charges

 

we find it very strange that a cutter can fire 10000 shots in battle. We believe it should be a player choice. If you want your ship to be a little bit faster or agile and you are confident that you shoot well take less shots per gun. (But they will still refill after every battle to save your time) they will only matter in the instance). 

 

Same with the unbalanced ships potential.. if you remember the gunboat capsizes this bug could be spread to all ships - make your ship too fast (lots of sails) you might capsize if you don't control wind pressure at extreme angles of heel

Yes please!

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Wow - this got a lot of attention fast.

 

Here comes the knee jerk "I'm outta here" reactions...

  • "No no no!!! Why? Because I paid for this game and you can't take my stuff from me." You paid for early access to be able to play in a TEST environment. Stop whinging about rights to pixels and help the devs test or take a hike. Especially if you've never used the F11 key. (Anyone takes offense to that then I wasn't talking about you - okay?)
  • "Ship production will now be zero - our ships are now useless" Only if everyone stops playing, and that ain't gonna happen. Really having to restrain myself from being atrociously sarcastic.
  • "You didn't give fine woods a chance or balance costs right" Do we really *need* 5 levels of ship quality? Really? Is losing that gonna totally  ruin your life/day/NA experience?
  • You can't just take all our ships away and leave us with basic cutters!" The only other times I've seen where players were going to "lose" assets, they were compensated or accommodated in some way. Calm down. Geez.
  • This will kill all activity for the next 2-3 months? Why? A LOT of people won't stick with a game any longer than that anyway. Stop worrying
  • People shouldn't be given special ships for winning tournaments! What on earth does that have to do with this proposal?
  • NO! From crafters currently asking obscene prices for gold ships. (If you are offended by this... I AM talking about you.. okay?)
  • A reasonable request for clarification... There really are a few of these but they are very much in the minority.
  • Thumbs up from me!! Brace yourself - the personal insults for being a sycophantic buttkisser.. too stupid to think this through... insert non relevant disparaging remark you can think of here...  They be coming!! And I can predict with 90% accuracy who will be flinging them. (If you are insulted by this - why?)

 

IMHO

  • simplifying the ship quality levels is a good thing.
  • making ships more personal through customization is a good thing.
  • will it do away with the fine woods approach? Dunno - don't care.
  • I do hope the devs do a materials wipe too so the release day economy situation can be tested at the same time
Edited by Angus McGregor
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Wow - this got a lot of attention fast.

 

Here comes the knee jerk "I'm outta here" reactions...

  • "No no no!!! Why? Because I paid for this game and you can't take my stuff from me." You paid for early access to be able to play in a TEST environment. Stop whinging about rights to pixels and help the devs test or take a hike. Especially if you've never used the F11 key. (Anyone takes offense to that then I wasn't talking about you - okay?)
  • "Ship production will now be zero - our ships are now useless" Only if everyone stops playing, and that ain't gonna happen. Really having to restrain myself from being atrociously sarcastic.
  • "You didn't give fine woods a chance or balance costs right" Do we really *need* 5 levels of ship quality? Really? Is losing that gonna totally  ruin your life/day/NA experience?
  • You can't just take all our ships away and leave us with basic cutters!" The only other times I've seen where players were going to "lose" assets, they were compensated or accommodated in some way. Calm down. Geez.
  • This will kill all activity for the next 2-3 months? Why? A LOT of people won't stick with a game any longer than that anyway. Stop worrying
  • People shouldn't be given special ships for winning tournaments! What on earth does that have to do with this proposal?
  • NO! From crafters currently asking obscene prices for gold ships. (If you are offended by this... I AM talking about you.. okay?)
  • A reasonable request for clarification... There really are a few of these but they are very much in the minority.
  • Thumbs up from me!! Brace yourself - the personal insults for being a sycophantic buttkisser.. too stupid to think this through... insert non relevant disparaging remark you can think of here...  They be coming!! And I can predict with 90% accuracy who will be flinging them. (If you are insulted by this - why?)

 

IMHO

  • simplifying the ship quality levels is a good thing.
  • making ships more personal through customization is a good thing.
  • will it do away with the fine woods approach? Dunno - don't care.

 

It's funny when someone says I will leave if you don't do this and that. They don't realize someone else will take their place. Good explanation.

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However this all ultimately turns out, I really hope that the issue of compensation for ships rendered useless is resolved as quickly as possible because of its potential harmful effect on the short-term playability of the game.

  

As some of the posts in this thread indicate, this issue may have a seriously adverse effect on ship crafting in the short term (which IMHO was already harmed by the resource scattering and “fine woods” imposed by the last patch). 

 

Many clans are organized around the principal of cooperative shipbuilding, and since the last patch I have seen a loss of cohesion in my own clan.  If shipbuilding goes into limbo for the next two months some clans may disintegrate completely.  Since clans are the basic units of organization within the several nations, this would in turn probably cause a deterioration in the strategic conquest game.

 

It is also unfortunate that the announcement was handled the way it was.  Initially the clear implication was that existing ships would be rendered useless without compensation.  One would think after the uproar that the apparently accidental degradation of some ships from gold to purple caused by the last patch that the devs could have anticipated an unhappy reaction to the proposed wholesale destruction of players’ existing fleets.

 

Even though it has subsequently been stated that some form of compensation will be provided (nature currently unknown) one must wonder whether it would not be better to have delayed the announcement until the compensation could be at least generally described.

 

Rightly or wrongly, this game appears to suffer from some serious public relations issues and unnecessarily stirring up this kind controversy does not help matters.

Edited by Wrongway Peter Peachfuzz
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