Forthcoming shipbuilding changes [Heavily Moderated]

[Sir Texas Sir]

2 hours ago, Aegir said:

...I have no problem with wipes - hell, I wish they'd do a full wipe immediately so that we can figure out a functional economy instead of entering release blindly - it's the early announcing and waiting I take issue with.

I think we lost some numbers in the past cause folks thought it was going to be sooner than the later part of when they might happen.

[The Spud]

16 hours ago, Hodo said:

I know I am expecting the wipe with this patch cycle, if they stick to the original schedule. 

I said it before, the devs need to put out a statement concerning a possible wipe, and how it will be implemented. I know we should expect wipes in EA, and I have no problem at all with wipes, they offer new challenges in the game.

But I know that some people are just not playing NA cause they don't want to waste time in doing stuff that is going to be undone "next week" (so to speak). A clear topic on this, and not a post somewhere burried deep inside a topic would be a good way to do this. If the devs have allready decided about the timing of a possible wipe obviously.

[Jesters-Ink]

Me, I have time to build and grind for all the nice stuff, so not a problem.

The last patch killed my clan, (I've seen one member with two accounts over the holidays), not even the hard cores play any more.

The plans sound good, but I think it will be the end of the game, I hope I'm wrong.

I will play casually until we are live, then see whats what.

Good luck.

As for ---->" We will abandon the 5 color grades for upgrades and ships. Fine (blue), Mastercraft (purple), Common (green) are not used and thus are useless. Nobody makes them and nobody buys them."

This is dumb, so gold marines or no marines, who wants half their ships crew to be marines unless they are going after Santi or Vic caps??? we need the grades.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Jesters-Ink
Added more.

[The Spud]

15 minutes ago, Jesters-Ink said:

As for ---->" We will abandon the 5 color grades for upgrades and ships. Fine (blue), Mastercraft (purple), Common (green) are not used and thus are useless. Nobody makes them and nobody buys them."

This is dumb, so gold marines or no marines, who wants half their ships crew to be marines unless they are going after Santi or Vic caps??? we need the grades.

I think it will not be a case of "all or nothing". Its my understanding you will have a "default" ship, with the stock perks where you can increase certain "specs" but at the cost of other specs, I think this will probably be done gradualy (like increase speed 0.5%, 1%, 1.5%,2%,... and at a simmilar ratio reduce armour HP with X%). So in general ships should be "balanced" apart from wood type and regional bonus.

If they rework upgrades it'll probably be something simillar, I think that specificaly the "Marines" upgrade is something that will be reworked.

[Jesters-Ink]

Just now, The Spud said:

I think it will not be a case of "all or nothing". Its my understanding you will have a "default" ship, with the stock perks where you can increase certain "specs" but at the cost of other specs, I think this will probably be done gradualy (like increase speed 0.5%, 1%, 1.5%,2%,... and at a simmilar ratio reduce armour HP with X%). So in general ships should be "balanced" apart from wood type and regional bonus.

If they rework upgrades it'll probably be something simillar, I think that specificaly the "Marines" upgrade is something that will be reworked.

Thanks for the info, that sounds reasonable.

[Sir Texas Sir]

13 minutes ago, Jesters-Ink said:

Thanks for the info, that sounds reasonable.

By what I picked up it looks like there will be only three mod slots on ships and the rest will be picked when you build it instead of using perm mods.   We will just have to wait and find out though.  

[Jesters-Ink]

40 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

By what I picked up it looks like there will be only three mod slots on ships and the rest will be picked when you build it instead of using perm mods.   We will just have to wait and find out though.  

It feels like the game started off in the right place, then something changed.

This is what I understand from what I read in the past--->
A lot of "crafters" were not happy with NPC's building budget ships devaluing crafter builds.
So the Devs addressed this by reducing NPC quality ships and increasing time and effort required to build quality end game ships. Not only has PvP suffered, so has PvE. 

Low cost ships = everyone playing and enjoying the ability to fight and replace losses fairly quickly.

High cost ships = people are now a lot more careful regarding when they fight and with what.

 Do we want to sail and fight, or has it all been made too expensive?

I really enjoyed NA a few months ago, I couldn't get through a day without getting stuck into a fight.
Now, its too much like hard work and there are a lot of other good games out there that are a lot more fun to play.
I find myself doing some crafting, then playing something else. Like I said before, the "grind" is fine for people like me, I have plenty of time, but for those working 5 or more days a week and have families too, I don't think its going to hold their interests for long. NA is losing players to the likes of World of Warships. A game I will never play, but I know for a fact, well over half my clan are playing. Sad but true.

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, Jesters-Ink said:

Low cost ships = everyone playing and enjoying the ability to fight and replace losses fairly quickly.

High cost ships = people are now a lot more careful regarding when they fight and with what.

 Do we want to sail and fight, or has it all been made too expensive?

While the game has swung back and forth testing both sides of the issue, it honestly doesn't seem to make much of a difference. Even when we had captureable 3rd rates or sit in the gray-quality constitutions, people tend to play either just as defensively as with high-quality ships, or suicidally, leading to fleets of crappy ships trying to ram expensive ships to death, or fleets of captured 3rd rates in PBs trying to sink just a few 1st rates to slightly reduce the enemy supply.

Personally I prefer high-cost ships simply because low-cost ones promote suicidal gameplay (currently that's what effective screening is pretty much like, especially when combined with throwaway NPC ship fleets), and it really sucks to fight against low-cost ships because you know you're spending 30+ minutes sinking (or easily 1 hour chasing) a defensively sailed ship that is of zero consequence to anyone, nor worth capturing, which is quite boring and demoralizing.

Oh, and I think cheap ships has also led to the excessive use of fleet ships (I wouldnt leave my AI buddies behind or risk bringing them with me if their ships weren't NPC shop junkers), and even for crafted ships it feels silly as a sole captain to be sitting on a fleet of 20-30 ships, but hopefully the wipe will resolve that somewhat, and once perk resets aren't infinite anymore we will hopefully see some people specializing in certain ships.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Guest

[The Spud]

Well in my opinion the NPC ships are excellent for newer players who don't have the cash or crafting XP to craft their own ships. With gold surprises going for +-1.5 million at the moment, I don't see how any of the newer players could ever afford to buy such a ship. And even if they get together the money, they're most likely to lose it in very short time. So NPC ships are for them a nice way to enjoy PvP without losing all their gold (so to speak) on one ship and have them sailing in a cutter again after a week. 

I think all top rank players can replace ships fast enough to not prefer NPC ones over crafted ones, even in screening. Using NPC ships only for fleets or when you don't have a ship on the spot. On top of that not all ships are available, and there are no SoL's. With consti's going at +-165k, they are not exactly dirt cheap either (well they are now as we all have millions stacked from fine woods).

[Jesters-Ink]

I dunno guys, I hope you're right, guess we will find out in the next month or so.

[Guest]

I for one are pretty psyked for the crafting changes.. I'm mostly a crafter and I can't wait to test custom builds and get the feedback needed to perfect my craft.. These crafting changes will hopefully make it possible to tailor make ships to specific tactics and counter tactics which will mean a far greater diversity not only in ship constructions, but in tactics as well.. Atm there really are only 2 tactics available -stern rake your opponent by being in a carro outfitted fast ship (sometimes mixed with taking down the masts just to make the rakings even more painfull or raking with long guns from a distance) or instant board an opponent - also known as the pyrate style.. Neither requires much skill if we are to be honest (I'm a fan of raking... I love raking - it's so frustrating for the opponent but I don't kid myself by thinking it's a great tactic)..

 

 

[Ravern]

So long as we get an asset wipe to properly test any further changes to Items, crafting or anything economy related.  

[Sir Texas Sir]

8 hours ago, Ravern said:

So long as we get an asset wipe to properly test any further changes to Items, crafting or anything economy related.  

We really really need one so we can test things and needs to get a lot of folks sitting on tons and tons of stuff.

[PIerrick de Badas]

3 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

We really really need one so we can test things and needs to get a lot of folks sitting on tons and tons of stuff.

let me sleep on my billion pz :-)

[Karpfanger]

Hello,

I'm a crafter and as this I hate it, if I can't build all ships or upgrades which are in the game. 

I know ... its nice, to have many different ships sailing and fighting in the PVP battles and some ships should be rare ... but there should be other limitation than the BP ...

... just my opinion

regards

Berend

btw. ... in this phase before release and wipe ... all ships should be buildable ... for testing ships balancing and economy

Edited January 4, 2017 by Karpfanger

[The Spud]

5 hours ago, Karpfanger said:

Hello,

I'm a crafter and as this I hate it, if I can't build all ships or upgrades which are in the game. 

I know ... its nice, to have many different ships sailing and fighting in the PVP battles and some ships should be rare ... but there should be other limitation than the BP ...

... just my opinion

regards

Berend

btw. ... in this phase before release and wipe ... all ships should be buildable ... for testing ships balancing and economy

I kinda feel the same, the last added ship that could be crafted by regular blueprint drop was the Bucentaure I believe.

The PvP events are gankfest, the PvE events are realy boring after a couple of dozen times and PB's are realy hard to get into. Would much rather have PvP kills count towards getting a possibility to get a BP drop, cause even if you're not all that great at this game eventualy you'll get enough killpoints to get a shot at getting a BP.

[Elric]

On ‎1‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 11:21 AM, The Spud said:

I kinda feel the same, the last added ship that could be crafted by regular blueprint drop was the Bucentaure I believe.

The PvP events are gankfest, the PvE events are realy boring after a couple of dozen times and PB's are realy hard to get into. Would much rather have PvP kills count towards getting a possibility to get a BP drop, cause even if you're not all that great at this game eventualy you'll get enough killpoints to get a shot at getting a BP.

With the PvP events located where they are, a couple of nations benefit from this while the rest have to run the gauntlet to get ships there.  The PvE events need mixing up - yes, seeing the same ships gets old after the first 20 attempts...  Why don't we have PvE events for every ship instead of just rattlesnakes...  Rotating through all the different craftable ships for the PvE events.

[Sir Texas Sir]

2 hours ago, ElricTheTwo said:

With the PvP events located where they are, a couple of nations benefit from this while the rest have to run the gauntlet to get ships there.  The PvE events need mixing up - yes, seeing the same ships gets old after the first 20 attempts...  Why don't we have PvE events for every ship instead of just rattlesnakes...  Rotating through all the different craftable ships for the PvE events.

There is so much unused area in the Gulf of Mexico.  When they said they where going to switch it from three to four events I was really expecting them to maybe throw in one out there some where.  That would give more areas for folks to play in.  There is even a deep water area and shallow waters they can have them in.  THough I think they picked the current areas as they are more central for most players.  You can have a freeport over there like the rest of us and come from them.  Though that is risky as you prob get ganked before you even get to the event.

[NavalActionPlayer]

When is the ship wipe due please, roughly speaking, next week, next month, next 3 months?

I am not pressing for it to be done on any particular timescale, I would just like a rough estimate so I can plan my play accordingly.

Thanks

 

Edited January 6, 2017 by NavalActionPlayer

[Grinderman]

Hello Admins!

For ships and upgrades i liked the colored theme, and thats for the effort behind the item. For example if i grind my levels in crafting i make low or bad ships just to raise XP and not waste materials for it, when time comes i make a fine ship to use or sell ect. This new system might work in similar state but dont forget the grinders (builders and fighters).

That said im looking forward to a new system with cargo affect amd ship performace, But with collecting stuff for your build and at the end produce a 1 dura ship i dont like, even the current state is a little off with 1 grade ship having 1 dura.

And a new system need a new valuationtime no?

[Sir Texas Sir]

6 hours ago, NavalActionPlayer said:

When is the ship wipe due please, roughly speaking, next week, next month, next 3 months?

I am not pressing for it to be done on any particular timescale, I would just like a rough estimate so I can plan my play accordingly.

Thanks

 

Why should it matter?  You should just play the same up till the patch and be done with it.  I realy think they should do a resource wipe with it too.  Other wise folks are going to hold there resources and not build things up to that patch or even stop playing like they have in other patch that where to come.   While I would like to know when the patch will come, but I play the same up to the new patches with major changes no matter what cause I'm here to test this game not just play what I like or not.  Though an update of the plan and such would be very much welcome right now. I really think they need to touch pirates finally it's been a year and still nothing.  A lot of folks want something big and I just can't see any release any time soon until they put in this mechanics and get us to test it.  RvR system is there and still needs tweaks, but we got enough nations to test that so lets bring in the pirates stuff now.  Make that the next big patch after the ship building patch is released.

[NavalActionPlayer]

3 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Why should it matter?  You should just play the same up till the patch and be done with it.  I realy think they should do a resource wipe with it too.  Other wise folks are going to hold there resources and not build things up to that patch or even stop playing like they have in other patch that where to come.   While I would like to know when the patch will come, but I play the same up to the new patches with major changes no matter what cause I'm here to test this game not just play what I like or not.  Though an update of the plan and such would be very much welcome right now. I really think they need to touch pirates finally it's been a year and still nothing.  A lot of folks want something big and I just can't see any release any time soon until they put in this mechanics and get us to test it.  RvR system is there and still needs tweaks, but we got enough nations to test that so lets bring in the pirates stuff now.  Make that the next big patch after the ship building patch is released.

Why should it matter to you that it may or may not matter to me? Please do not tell me what I should or should not do.

[BallsOfSteel]

I actively stopped crafting ships some time ago, until we get wiped again Im just not wasting my time and resources to do it, Im already level 50 so no point.

At least i saw someone got a pirate frigate blueprint as a ship chest drop. no point in having it given we are to be wiped of all the bp we worked so hard to learn.

Last wipe was 12 months ago. no problem with wipes. just i would prefer one asap once we are closer to release. even a timeframe within a couple of months would provide some clarity 

Edited January 10, 2017 by BallsOfSteel
added content

[Callaghan]

One thing that is nice about the current grading system is that it adds a bit of granularity to player progress. Levelling up and getting better ships can take a fair while if you are not willing to use exploits and or 'power play' (dishonourable nonsense for kids imo), and so have categorical variations within ship types helps add mini objectives for player progress in between the larger objectives. This is not an argument for getting rid of the current system, just a case for preserving what is good about it. In other words, please make the new system use visuals and language to distinguish between ship; varieties, as opposed to just a percentage change in the stats here and there. A bit of 'flavour' - an algorithm to generate adjectives for the ship based on the stat changes, much like loot in many RPGs ("Race built traders cutter", for example), can really help make crafting and purchasing new ships based on small changes seem a lot more significant and exciting. Colour coding according to ship strengths could also help in this regard. With the current lack of proper UI, the game in general lacks these small but important elements that all come together to make that 'hook' that keeps people playing and coming back.

[Sir Texas Sir]

On 1/6/2017 at 7:32 PM, NavalActionPlayer said:

Why should it matter to you that it may or may not matter to me? Please do not tell me what I should or should not do.

Sounds like someone is a bit touche there?   The reason is exactly as BallsOfSteel puts it.  The last couple of big patches folks like you stopped playing pretty much and the game grinds to a dead stop for days, weeks and months as the patch doesn't come out exactly when folks expect it instead of keep playing like normal and just worrying about it when it comes out.  We are here to test things, all those pretty pixels of yours are going to be gone any way when they do any wipes and they are way over due for one.  And I don't mean just ships.   

On 1/6/2017 at 10:24 PM, BallsOfSteel said:

I actively stopped crafting ships some time ago, until we get wiped again Im just not wasting my time and resources to do it, Im already level 50 so no point.

At least i saw someone got a pirate frigate blueprint as a ship chest drop. no point in having it given we are to be wiped of all the bp we worked so heard to learn.

Yah they drop all the rare BP's now on a very small changes so folks need to stop complaining they can't get the BP's.  Only the two newest ships and the gunboat can't be dropped BP wise.  Which kinda surprised they didn't add the gunboat into that rotation.