Forthcoming shipbuilding changes [Heavily Moderated]

[jodgi]

I never had Cecilia.

I don't have Strong hull L'Ocean.

I don't have a single paintjob.

I have only one golden non-craftable upgrade.

There are so may things in this game I want that I don't have.

[Wolfram Harms]

12 hours ago, jodgi said:

I never had Cecilia.

I don't have Strong hull L'Ocean.

I don't have a single paintjob.

I have only one golden non-craftable upgrade.

There are so may things in this game I want that I don't have.

Same here, jodgi - and I'm still alive and kickin' !
I became an Admiral yesterday (probably the worst they ever had! ...)

Sailed an EPIC EVENT and got some UPGRADES (blue) - when I get better, maybe I find Gold Upgrades?

Let's just carry on and do our best to improve ourselves. Then the good things will come to us. Perhaps...
 

[Yar Matey]

Just make all ships 1 durability, and make all modules craft-able at 1/4 the cost of what they are now with regards to mid grade notes.  50 labor hours and 10 silver coins per note.  Make ships like the Connie cost 1/4 the labor hours and materials to build (including the mid grade notes to make them exceptional), surprise 1/5, 3rd rate and Bellona 1/3, 2nd rate 1/2.  Ships will be plentiful then and losing your Connie will be no big deal because it will be really easy to replace.   

 

Also, remove fine woods, its not needed.  

[Havelock]

2 hours ago, Yar Matey said:

Just make all ships 1 durability, and make all modules craft-able at 1/4 the cost of what they are now with regards to mid grade notes.  50 labor hours and 10 silver coins per note.  Make ships like the Connie cost 1/4 the labor hours and materials to build (including the mid grade notes to make them exceptional), surprise 1/5, 3rd rate and Bellona 1/3, 2nd rate 1/2.  Ships will be plentiful then and losing your Connie will be no big deal because it will be really easy to replace.   

 

Also, remove fine woods, its not needed.  

 

Sounds good (even though we need more port space then^^)

As proposed by others before, make those ships have 1.5 duras tho (even captured ones). You can take off your regular upgrades and then scrap the ship. You dont get anything back from it, its just for regular upgrades actually being regular (otherwise theyd be like perms).

Edited December 3, 2016 by Havelock

[VictusB]

I think what this thread has come to is the nature of psychology of loss or risk/reward of most players.

There is a fancy name for it, but I am not a psychologist so don't know it however I do know OF it.  It basically states that most humans are basically wired to be risk adverse naturally when EVERYTHING is on the line, however as surplus develops people become more accepting and even seek risk...thats right, SEEK OUT the very risk they are hardcore adverse to when there is a shortage.  Its tied in with ego as a dynamic survival mechanism that also provides for expansion and progression idea.

What does this mean for NA?  IF all pvp becomes about having the biggest and most 'gold' ships people will be adverse to engaging in PVP because it represents potential loss of the capstone of their game ambition, a gold SOL.  However if most pvp does not involve the max available equipment they will be much more willing to risk loss of lesser ships PROVIDED they have bigger/better/more they can fall back on if they lose...an ego safety net if you will.

EVE is a constant example cited when talking about pvp in NA...so it also applies here...countless data logs show the vast majority of players who lose ships only lose ships that represent a small fraction of their total assets or wallet.  And more hours are spent spinning in dock ships with a value of over 1bn isk than they are actually undocked for ANY purpose.

[Rebel Witch]

These changes sound very interesting, cant wait to try them. I also liked to see you would consider trying for a time at least going with 1 durability. That is progress towards realism this game should have. Next, being able to name our ships!

[fox2run]

1 dura would be the last nail in the PvP coffin. 

 

Ships need to be cheap and spendable. Battles need to be easy to get. Total  realism is not fun in the age of sail. 

Otherwise make a server for simulation level where you need to be commander for years before entering a fight. 

[Ixal]

On 29.11.2016 at 10:40 PM, koltes said:

@jodgi This system works for all other games it has been implemented

And what games would that be?

[Havelock]

3 hours ago, fox2run said:

1 dura would be the last nail in the PvP coffin. 

 

Ships need to be cheap and spendable. Battles need to be easy to get. Total  realism is not fun in the age of sail. 

Otherwise make a server for simulation level where you need to be commander for years before entering a fight. 

 

Do you realise that in the proposed system ships dont cost more? Now you craft a 5 dura ship with 100% of the mats, the proposed change would mean you can build 5x 1 dura ship with 20% of the mats each.

[Koltes]

1 hour ago, Ixal said:

And what games would that be?

Lots of MMOs where you grind materials will have special drops that are requirements for better staff. The better the drops are, rarer the rate and are used for higher level stuff.
Asheron's Call, Age of Conan, SWTOR, WOW
There are also arena based strategy games that get similar drops. Like crystals for example. Green crystals for low level magic, purple for high sorcery, diamond crystals some uber shit.
Point is there needs to be various quality wood types for various quality ships. You cant have one rare quality woods that covers the entire spectrum of ships. Its not gonna work. No one will waste those fine woods to craft anything lower than gold.

Edited December 4, 2016 by koltes

[fox2run]

2 hours ago, Havelock said:

 

Do you realise that in the proposed system ships dont cost more? Now you craft a 5 dura ship with 100% of the mats, the proposed change would mean you can build 5x 1 dura ship with 20% of the mats each.

If it can be done by lowering the trading and sailing for materials required by the same ratio it wouldnt matter. But it would hardly be so...(?)  Maybe I will play after next patch and maybe not. It all depends on the action part. Im in no favour of games that require the same experience as work. Games are a break off from reality with house, kids, work, career, cooking, laundry and all that stuff. Its like - hey i have this hour for gaming - how can I have some fun? NA is a trading game and a pirate game. It is NOT a navy game and is is NOT an action game.

Titles does matter!

 

 

Edited December 4, 2016 by fox2run

[Stilgar]

Perhaps the following step-wise approach to implementation / testing of one-dura ships would help.

Step 1. Allow ships with multiple dura's to be split in one-dura ships. That would be great way to share ships with various characteristics with clan mates or anyone interested. (one of coming patches?) Allow selling of one dura ships in shops.

Step 2. With ship/asset wipe (perhaps), drastically decrease nr of dura's, x3 for 7th/6th/5th rate, x2 for 4th rates, x1 for the rest, but allow to select nr of dura's during building and increase nr of required materials linearly. This would allow for more choice. Dedicated crafters will likely craft multiple dura ships, whereas casual or beginning crafters would have opportunity to experiment with various builts. Modules will have to be made cheaper and expendable.

Step 3. (hopefully) Implement one dura ships together with other logical changes (low-cost or no modules, multiple officers, more characteristics to be built during crafting, (somewhat) improved survival features,  sensible RoE etc.).

 

[Kiithnaras]

On 12/1/2016 at 6:07 AM, jodgi said:

That's the outline in the OP. 

Sort of, but not really. Admin's post isn't clearly defined with any details or examples (understandably-so, anything he says is often taken as gospel, even if he says, "Don't take this as gospel.") other than this:

On 11/2/2016 at 8:05 AM, admin said:

Instead of quality (who would try to make a bad ship) players will select things they want they their ship to have sacrificing other elements if they want to improve one of the characteristics

This is counter to what I proposed where players should be able to adjust several aspects of their crafted ships simultaneously, each one having a reactionary effect to being improved. What I interpret Admin saying is that if, for example, I want a particularly stiff ship, everything else will suffer, but I could only improve the stiffness and nothing else. In my example, Stiffness is just one aspect of the ship that can be improved at the expense of a slower, more sluggish ship - other aspects are unrelated, but they might affect similar qualities as a result of their adjustment.

On 12/4/2016 at 1:36 PM, Havelock said:

Do you realise that in the proposed system ships dont cost more? Now you craft a 5 dura ship with 100% of the mats, the proposed change would mean you can build 5x 1 dura ship with 20% of the mats each.

I would be all down for this if we ditched Crafting Notes and instead used Coins directly in crafting since they'd be more easily scaled to the sizes of ships (bigger ships take more coins, higher quality/better aspects took more coins per quality level). 600-1000 extra crafting hours for a 1-dura ship, outside of a super-beefy Vic or Santi with 6000 hours on the docket already, is a bit silly. Then again, this hasn't been explained in detail with the proposed crafting method in the OP, afaik.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Kiithnaras

[Bubba Smith]

On 12/2/2016 at 3:32 PM, jodgi said:

I never had Cecilia.

I don't have Strong hull L'Ocean.

I don't have a single paintjob.

I have only one golden non-craftable upgrade.

There are so may things in this game I want that I don't have.

Give me the materials and  I will make you some gold upgrades and any ships I have the blue prints for... deal? Oh, I'm on PvE. 

[Guest]

In my eyes gathering materials for crafting a ship is once thing. Another thing is the needed time for building ship. Once you got all the mats you just insta build the ship by one click and it is finished.

I'd like to see that building a ship takes more time. So first you gather all the mats, then you give order to build the ship. After the order has been give it takes a certain time (let's say 7 days for a 1st rate) until you can receive the ship in your dock.

[The Spud]

1 hour ago, Jœrnson said:

In my eyes gathering materials for crafting a ship is once thing. Another thing is the needed time for building ship. Once you got all the mats you just insta build the ship by one click and it is finished.

I'd like to see that building a ship takes more time. So first you gather all the mats, then you give order to build the ship. After the order has been give it takes a certain time (let's say 7 days for a 1st rate) until you can receive the ship in your dock.

The devs said its not technicaly possible, because it would require the server to run a separate timer for every ship that is getting crafted, resulting in 100's of timers. And the current system with LH's only uses one timer. Its the same, gather stuff, wait for LH's to generate, craft it. Or gather stuff, craft it, wait for ship to be crafted.

It would be more logical in our head the way you say it, like you would bring stuff to a shipyard and say build me a ship, and they would say OK it'll take X days.

EDIT: I read that yesterday somewhere, can't remember where realy.

Edited December 6, 2016 by The Spud

[Siegfried]

I remember that too Spud. But I am thinking about... no timers, but the ship will be delivered in the port in the next maintenance. The same as tow ships works now.

[The Spud]

Just now, Siegfried said:

I remember that too Spud. But I am thinking about... no timers, but the ship will be delivered in the port in the next maintenance. The same as tow ships works now.

And what would be the added benefit of doing that if I might ask?

[Todbringer]

On 12/4/2016 at 10:03 PM, Stilgar said:

 

Step 2. With ship/asset wipe (perhaps), drastically decrease nr of dura's, x3 for 7th/6th/5th rate, x2 for 4th rates, x1 for the rest, but allow to select nr of dura's during building and increase nr of required materials linearly. This would allow for more choice. Dedicated crafters will likely craft multiple dura ships, whereas casual or beginning crafters would have opportunity to experiment with various builts. Modules will have to be made cheaper and expendable.

 

This sounds good. I would deffinitely craft more dura higher rank ships that I would eb using for a longer time, but would craft lower dura ships for those starting ranks or for shallow water battles since I wouldn't be sailing them so often.

[Siegfried]

56 minutes ago, The Spud said:

And what would be the added benefit of doing that if I might ask?

Nothing really, I only remember too the same that you read from another thread. I think about  an alternative for do it without timers in the server and that is all. But the system is fine now. You wait for LH refill and press craft and go.

[The Spud]

31 minutes ago, Siegfried said:

Nothing really, I only remember too the same that you read from another thread. I think about  an alternative for do it without timers in the server and that is all. But the system is fine now. You wait for LH refill and press craft and go.

I think the LH mechanic is fine too, for me this game is not about trading, or making money off crafting, I just want to craft my own ships so they are cheaper and I can replace losses myself. Last mechanic was to time/money consuming where you almost had to put 5 forests up for fine woods, and had to buy all other stuff.

 

[--Privateer--]

If there's a ship wipe, what is going to happen to the currently uncraftable ships? E.g. my Santa Cecilia and yacht.

 

[Guest]

Hope the wipe comes soon, must say that these announcements are quite detrimental to wanting to play. We've gone from the low-activity summer, to a port wipe being announced, to a ship wipe being announced, and eventually we'll have the final wipe. The waiting and knowing that the port you capture/ship you craft will be for nothing soon enough is far worse than the wipe itself, and if it's not going to happen within a month of announcing I'd rather not even know about it.

[Sir Texas Sir]

On 12/29/2016 at 5:00 PM, --Privateer-- said:

If there's a ship wipe, what is going to happen to the currently uncraftable ships? E.g. my Santa Cecilia and yacht.

 

I"m going to bet yacht will go back to redeemable maybe since that is a paypal pre-EA gift.   The Santa Cecilia is a ship you got cause of a BP drop ops.  It along with any other ship will prob go by by.  I'm going to bet/hope they give us the resources for all the ships we own or just give us certain ships to start back up with new builds.   Really need to do a resource wipe and give out packs to restart and test the resources and actually crafting from scratch.

8 hours ago, Aegir said:

Hope the wipe comes soon, must say that these announcements are quite detrimental to wanting to play. We've gone from the low-activity summer, to a port wipe being announced, to a ship wipe being announced, and eventually we'll have the final wipe. The waiting and knowing that the port you capture/ship you craft will be for nothing soon enough is far worse than the wipe itself, and if it's not going to happen within a month of announcing I'd rather not even know about it.

THIS IS ALPHA TESTING.   They have all ways said we can have wipes of everything thing except your XP/Rank/Crafting Level.   They should of been doing them more often in my book.  You are here to test things while they build a game.  Testing involves wipes if need be.   

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

THIS IS ALPHA TESTING.   They have all ways said we can have wipes of everything thing except your XP/Rank/Crafting Level.   They should of been doing them more often in my book.  You are here to test things while they build a game.  Testing involves wipes if need be.   

...I have no problem with wipes - hell, I wish they'd do a full wipe immediately so that we can figure out a functional economy instead of entering release blindly - it's the early announcing and waiting I take issue with.