Regional "Trims"

[Cmdr RideZ]

I am not sure, but if that is not too much trouble to check.

...

It can be that wood types have changed, and that is confusing here.  Do not really know.  Would be nice to have one location with all information.

Also player crafted are...

0.5% faster?

4.0% hull hp?

Or no?  Something else?

 

Are the values multiplied now like...

Base * X * Y * Z = Total

I think those were...

Base * X + Base * Y + Base * Z = Total

 

Could be that are the same, and just some other things that are messing my calculations.

Edited January 17, 2017 by Cmdr RideZ

[TommyShelby]

Takes like 10-15 minutes to check the "Trims" data so its no problem. 

The Wood Types might take a bit longer though. The easiest way that i know of is to build 6 completely identical except for wood type. 
EG: 
Fir Lynx with Crew Space 
Bermuda Cedar Lynx with Crew Space
Teak Lynx with Crew Space 

And so on. Ofcourse they must be of the same "Quality". 

Developers did at one point say that player crafted ships would have "Hidden" characteristics. But since i don't craft i don't know if this have been implemented. 
If you craft and want to find out i suggest you make 10 Lynx's with same wood type and trim. Then look at each of the ships stats and compare

[Cmdr RideZ]

There is a high change that the hidden values are failing my calculations.  As I do not know how much those really are.

[TommyShelby]

Noone knows the exact values ^^ Thats why you need to choose a ship and a trim (No regional trim bonus).
And the way i see it, Crew Space is the best choice along with Teak Wood Type. Then when you compare all the ships you'll see the values (If there are hidden characteristics then they might not be exact values, one ship might get 1% HP bonus while another gets 5% HP Bonus. 
 

[Ned Loe]

32 minutes ago, TommyShelby said:

Noone knows the exact values ^^ Thats why you need to choose a ship and a trim (No regional trim bonus).
And the way i see it, Crew Space is the best choice along with Teak Wood Type. Then when you compare all the ships you'll see the values (If there are hidden characteristics then they might not be exact values, one ship might get 1% HP bonus while another gets 5% HP Bonus. 
 

I never understood why Developers never shared numbers? Wouldn't it help testing and tuning? If players know the data, they start to try things, things that can speed up game development. Or maybe I am wrong. 

Edited January 17, 2017 by Wind

[TommyShelby]

11 minutes ago, Wind said:

I never understood why Developers never shared numbers? Wouldn't it help testing and tuning? If players know the data, they start to try things, things that can speed up game development. Or maybe I am wrong. 

In general, you are right. If we got the numbers of say, upcoming changes to Officers Perks, Cannon Penetration Values, Mast Thickness and HP values. Then those of us with extensive experience would be able to say: "Mast Thickness changes look good, but xxxx ship shouldn't be buffed/nerfed" or "Cannon Penetration Values sounds great but i think 42 Long Cannon doesn't need change.". 

I think they made a choice a long long time ago not to share this stuff before it is implemented. They always had a thing for "Surprises" (Not the ship lol) so to speak and with some things, "Surprises" are awesome and the community love it. 
Like when a new ship is put in the game without us knowing that they were planning to release that ship. Or when a new feature is implemented it can be fun too. 
However when it comes to values like we are talking about right now i think we should be told the exact values before it is implemented, giving us a chance to look it over and be prepared. 

Furthermore when it comes to "hidden characteristics" we aren't meant to know exact values. Atleast that is my theory and understanding of the supposed mechanic. 
But as far as i recall we never were told if the "Hidden characteristics" were implemented, just that they were thinking about it. (I could be wrong here). 

[TommyShelby]

Aight, i had time to check the API. 
If the data in the API is correct then the following changes were made: 

Regional Close Hauled.
Before: ["MAST_PHYSICS_JIB_SAIL_FORCE_BONUS"],"Absolute":0.05,"Percentage":0}]
Now: ["MAST_PHYSICS_JIB_SAIL_FORCE_BONUS"],"Absolute":0.04,"Percentage":0}]

Regional Explorer.
Before: ["SHIP_MAX_SPEED"],"Absolute":0,"Percentage":3}]
Now: ["SHIP_MAX_SPEED"],"Absolute":0,"Percentage":2}]

Regional Speed.
Before: ["SHIP_MAX_SPEED"],"Absolute":0,"Percentage":5}]
Now: ["SHIP_MAX_SPEED"],"Absolute":0,"Percentage":2}]

Regional Running.
Before: ["MAST_PHYSICS_MAIN_SAIL_FORCE_BONUS"],"Absolute":0.05,"Percentage":0}]
Now: ["MAST_PHYSICS_MAIN_SAIL_FORCE_BONUS"],"Absolute":0.04,"Percentage":0}]

[TommyShelby]

Oh, i also did a quick check on the "Hidden Characteristics". 
I'll highlight part of an extract from the API: 
 

"Name":"Bucentaure","Id":268,"PreventTeleport":true,"DropChanceReductionPerItem":0,"MaxStack":1,"ItemWeight":0,"BasePrice":218218,"SellPrice":{"x":0.100000001490116,"y":1},"BuyPrice":{"x":0.150000005960464,"y":1.5},"PriceReductionAmount":-1,"ConsumedScale":1.5,"NonConsumedScale":1,"PriceTierQuantity":100,"MaxQuantity":1000,"SortingGroup":"ship:2","SellableInShop":false,"CanBeSoldToShop":true,"ResetStockOnServerStart":false,"SellPriceCoefficient":0.7,"ItemType":"Ship","MongoID":"268","BaseDurability":2,"QualityPrices":[218218,230938,243658,256378,269098],"Premium":false,"CaptureType":"CapturableFromPlayer","CanBeUsedInFleet":false,"FleetHirePriceCoefficient":1,"CanBeSoldOnlyIn":-1,"RepairKits":{"x":20,"y":30},"RepairKitPriceModifier":{"x":0.0350000001490116,"y":0.0524999983608723},"RepairKitCooldownModifier":{"x":0.800000011920929,"y":1},"RepairAmount":0.4,"HealthInfo":{"LeftArmor":10013,"RightArmor":10013,"FrontArmor":2503,"BackArmor":1001,"Crew":840,"Sails":10013,"Hull":2700,"Pump":222,"Rudder":92,"Deck1":24,"Deck2":32,"Deck3":32,"Deck4":0},"ShipMass":3100,"BattleRating":450,"ShipType":0,"HiddenModulesCount":3,"PersistentModulesCount":3,"UpgradeModulesCount":5,"MinUpgradeModulesCount":1,

I'll do some more digging but this is definitely a sign that there is "Hidden Modules" of some kind. 

[van der Clam]

1 hour ago, TommyShelby said:

Oh, i also did a quick check on the "Hidden Characteristics". 
I'll highlight part of an extract from the API: 
 

"Name":"Bucentaure","Id":268,"PreventTeleport":true,"DropChanceReductionPerItem":0,"MaxStack":1,"ItemWeight":0,"BasePrice":218218,"SellPrice":{"x":0.100000001490116,"y":1},"BuyPrice":{"x":0.150000005960464,"y":1.5},"PriceReductionAmount":-1,"ConsumedScale":1.5,"NonConsumedScale":1,"PriceTierQuantity":100,"MaxQuantity":1000,"SortingGroup":"ship:2","SellableInShop":false,"CanBeSoldToShop":true,"ResetStockOnServerStart":false,"SellPriceCoefficient":0.7,"ItemType":"Ship","MongoID":"268","BaseDurability":2,"QualityPrices":[218218,230938,243658,256378,269098],"Premium":false,"CaptureType":"CapturableFromPlayer","CanBeUsedInFleet":false,"FleetHirePriceCoefficient":1,"CanBeSoldOnlyIn":-1,"RepairKits":{"x":20,"y":30},"RepairKitPriceModifier":{"x":0.0350000001490116,"y":0.0524999983608723},"RepairKitCooldownModifier":{"x":0.800000011920929,"y":1},"RepairAmount":0.4,"HealthInfo":{"LeftArmor":10013,"RightArmor":10013,"FrontArmor":2503,"BackArmor":1001,"Crew":840,"Sails":10013,"Hull":2700,"Pump":222,"Rudder":92,"Deck1":24,"Deck2":32,"Deck3":32,"Deck4":0},"ShipMass":3100,"BattleRating":450,"ShipType":0,"HiddenModulesCount":3,"PersistentModulesCount":3,"UpgradeModulesCount":5,"MinUpgradeModulesCount":1,

I'll do some more digging but this is definitely a sign that there is "Hidden Modules" of some kind. 

I've been searching in there to find why the Buc speed cuts in half at 91% sails and less

[qw569😳]

10 hours ago, TommyShelby said:

{"LeftArmor":10013,"RightArmor":10013,"FrontArmor":2503,"BackArmor":1001,"Crew":840,"Sails":10013,"Hull":2700,"Pump":222,"Rudder":92,"Deck1":24,"Deck2":32,"Deck3":32,"Deck4":0},"ShipMass":3100,"BattleRating":450,"ShipType":0,"HiddenModulesCount":3,"PersistentModulesCount":3,"UpgradeModulesCount":5,"MinUpgradeModulesCount":1,

I'll do some more digging but this is definitely a sign that there is "Hidden Modules" of some kind. 

I think HiddenModules are wood type, trim 1 and trim 2.
Example:

1. Oak Wood Type,
2. Stiffness,
3. Agile Hull Bonus

Edited January 18, 2017 by qw569

[TommyShelby]

Ahh yeah that could explain it!

[Serk]

17 hours ago, TommyShelby said:

Aight, i had time to check the API. 
If the data in the API is correct then the following changes were made: 

Regional Close Hauled.
Before: ["MAST_PHYSICS_JIB_SAIL_FORCE_BONUS"],"Absolute":0.05,"Percentage":0}]
Now: ["MAST_PHYSICS_JIB_SAIL_FORCE_BONUS"],"Absolute":0.04,"Percentage":0}]

Regional Explorer.
Before: ["SHIP_MAX_SPEED"],"Absolute":0,"Percentage":3}]
Now: ["SHIP_MAX_SPEED"],"Absolute":0,"Percentage":2}]

Regional Speed.
Before: ["SHIP_MAX_SPEED"],"Absolute":0,"Percentage":5}]
Now: ["SHIP_MAX_SPEED"],"Absolute":0,"Percentage":2}]

Regional Running.
Before: ["MAST_PHYSICS_MAIN_SAIL_FORCE_BONUS"],"Absolute":0.05,"Percentage":0}]
Now: ["MAST_PHYSICS_MAIN_SAIL_FORCE_BONUS"],"Absolute":0.04,"Percentage":0}]

 

Thanks for the info.

They could just remove regional explorer now that it is identical to the regional speed bonus.

It also make French Refit more  competitive, which is good, yet IMO it is still inferior to the Pirate or British Refit, depending on you intended role. 

Edited January 18, 2017 by Serk

[Dead In The Red]

10 minutes ago, Serk said:

Thanks for the info.

They could just remove regional explorer now that it is identical to the regional speed bonus.

It also make French refit more  competitive, which is good, yet IMO it is still inferior to the Pirate or British refit, depending on you intended role. 

When I first saw it, I thought it would be for something like OW speed not in battle.  Since it's called Explorer.

[Yar Matey]

Sigh, tell me they nerfed Pirate Refit!  If they nerfed regional explorer and regional speed trims but dint nerf pirate refit, I will be extremely disappointed because that is/was the biggest game breaking offender in the game effecting open world pvp.  They should just remove the damn main sail force bonus on the Pirate refit and it would probably be ok or nerf it from 10% to 5% and remove the speed bonus. 

I have a speed speed Bermuda cedar connie with an exceptional copper plating and a basic speed trim.  It goes ~13.1 knots sailing close hauled with cannons (this is with frigate master perk). 

Anyway, good investigative work on this! 

Edited January 18, 2017 by Yar Matey

[qw569😳]

3 hours ago, Dead In The Red said:

When I first saw it, I thought it would be for something like OW speed not in battle.  Since it's called Explorer.

I thought so, but it wrong. 

 

[Sir Texas Sir]

4 hours ago, Yar Matey said:

Sigh, tell me they nerfed Pirate Refit!  If they nerfed regional explorer and regional speed trims but dint nerf pirate refit, I will be extremely disappointed because that is/was the biggest game breaking offender in the game effecting open world pvp.  They should just remove the damn main sail force bonus on the Pirate refit and it would probably be ok or nerf it from 10% to 5% and remove the speed bonus. 

I have a speed speed Bermuda cedar connie with an exceptional copper plating and a basic speed trim.  It goes ~13.1 knots sailing close hauled with cannons (this is with frigate master perk). 

Anyway, good investigative work on this! 

Than they need to nerf British refit and it's reload and the French refit. I don't think Spanish is as strong as the others.  Why are you so freaking worried about speed?  Does every one run from you and you can't catch them?   Oh wait never mind yah they do.  The problem is that speed fit guy is worth crap in a brawl.  Just get some good sail hits to slow him down and than you melt his pretty little cedar ship before he can do anything.   We see it all the time in fights.  Folks bring cedar speed fit ships and learn you can't brawl  Than they learn why we don't repair sails cause your shooting at them. It's cause we are leaking your ship and stripping your armor. I really think the dang nats use the Pirate refit more than the pirates cause all I see most the time is the stern of there ships as they run away even when they out number us.   And remember if you cut up wind that pirate refit main sail force bonus doesn't mean crap.

[Yar Matey]

The 2 most broken regional trims in the game right now are pirate refit and strong hull.  British refit aint got nuttin' on a live oak stiffness strong hull build.  We are talking 89 cm of thickness on the side of a 1st or 2nd rate ship of the line!  A lot of good that faster reload is going to do when all your shots are bouncing off my hull.

Pirate refit is the most broken and oppressive trim in the game because in small man groups, you will never get away from a cedar speed pirate refit ship.  They will chase you down, chain your sails down and wait until the rest of the fleet in his small group runs you down and sinks or captures your ship.  The gank squads love their pirate refit ships and they are used a lot on PvP1. 

Pirate refit is for 1 or 2 ships while the rest are decked out for tanking. 

[van der Clam]

Plus the moral and prep bonus make instabonus-one-shot-kill captures too easy. But...these thoughts are just considered crying, despite the crying about not wanting it nerfed.

[Yar Matey]

20 minutes ago, van der Decken said:

Plus the moral and prep bonus make instabonus-one-shot-kill captures too easy. But...these thoughts are just considered crying, despite the crying about not wanting it nerfed.

Pirate refit is like you in a car chase on the highway, and the car chasing you pulls up right along side you of you like your an old driver in the slow lane.  You simply cannot get away from a pirate refit ship!  Never mind all the boarding bonuses, that alone makes it broken. 

[Bulwyf]

Pirates can run down any merchant and run away from any warship at the moment. They seem the favoured children of the developers with better perks and bonus. At least fitting  your merchant with pirate perks allows you to run from any national  The pirate refit/perk definitely needs addressing, Pirates didn't have good ships historically and for some bizarre reason in game have the best ships speed wise.

[Hethwill]

That is correct, perks like those despite being pirate or not are, personally speaking, blunders.

Sea rovers going versus any type of man'owar was a no go although... although... it happened and with success. So it is all about extremes and what lays in between.

I hope to see major changes down the road regarding perks, modules and what not.

 

[Dead In The Red]

On 1/18/2017 at 1:26 PM, qw569 said:

I thought so, but it wrong. 

 

Thanks good to know.  Still would of been interesting if it was an OW only trait that would be good for trade ships.

[Amihai]

Is it working now?

[Liq]

43 minutes ago, Amihai said:

Is it working now?

Regional crafting bonusses were removed with the introduction of refits and skillbook slots

[Amihai]

Will be great, if topic starter update 1st post