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Hostility and conquest feedback - moderated.

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... why can't everyone see the attack circle to maneuver in or out of it?

 

 

If you're referring to the 'invisible' pull circle I was advocating.  I'm worried about people looking at a visible circle in the OW and using the accelerated OW movement to just sail around the perimeter to gain the wind advantage or cut off retreat. If the circle is invisible, there's at least a chance they'll blunder into it before reaching the point of their choosing. The idea is that as soon as they cross the line, they are then given their one and only chance to enter the instance.

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Hostility bombs of war supplies can be delivered to any of the towns in a region, not just the capital. So you basically have no chance to intercept a war supply bomb without spies.

War supply deliveries need to go to the regional capital only.

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Taking a look back at the last week it seems that the players have decided that the current hostility system is not working and have reverted back to a flag system (albeit via the war supplies mechanism). I do not really see anyone at the moment seriously trying to increase hostility through PvP or PvE, they seem to be spending all their time gathering supplies and crafting war supplies, and at the end of the day war supply bombs are just a flag mechanic without warning.

The way I see it is that the idea of hostility generation is a good one in theory, but it is failing due to the lack of players willing to engage in PvP. There have been various discussions on this as to why people who say they are PvP'ers are avoiding PvP, but the end result is the same, people seem to prefer grinding PvE missions to raise hostility, but this is too easily countered by the defending side grinding their PvE missions, leading to a stalemate and people getting bored.

I made a suggestion in another thread that I think PvP and PvE hostility should be separated and that PvP hostility would not decay and could only be countered by PvP kills. I think it would not solve the willingness of people to PvP but it may make them eventually have to PvP if they want to reduce hostility. War supplies could still be used to a limited extent to raise PvE hostility, but not be able to take a region from 0 to 100% hostility.

Either way I think the events over the last week have proved that something needs to be done to change the system of port battle generation, and it must also be borne in mind that Port Battles are not the be all and end all of everything. Meaningful and enjoyable PvP in OW and PB's should be the goal.

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Totally agree with Archaos on this topic.  On PVP1 the Danes have already said they've stockpiled the War Supplies *in the ports they currently hold* in case they lose one after the end of the non-aggression period they will instantly drop a hostility bomb. This requires only the PvE grind of getting the resources there while you own the port to accomplish and is just a lame way to generate port battle encounters.

I'd argue to please do away with hostility generation via War Supply drops as they are currently, and make war supplies require a port-battle-flag-like delivery with a cool-down enforced. So that an Indiaman would have to loiter outside the port for a certain amount of time and that once 6 war supplies are delivered a mandatory cool-down would have to take place before the next drop could increase hostility.

Furthermore, if generating port battle encounters is desired (which I hope will become increasingly cool with the addition of land and mixed fleet requirements), then make hostility missions the equivalent of raids on non-capital ports within regions. Notify the defending nation of an imminent raid when the attacking nation pulls a flag for it, and that mechanic becomes the primary hostility generating mechanism along with PvP in an area.

I wouldn't even mind getting rid of the PvE influence on hostility entirely or reduce it to a fraction of its current importance on PvP servers.

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Please get us PvP again. The 46 hours timer encourages people to not play the game for 2 days or even more because noone wants to play the pve to get portbattles. the only way to make RvR fun at the moment is to only build war supplies and play another game while you

1. deliver them to the target

2. wait for the 46 hours timer

The most people that play RvR hate missiongrinding and this broken RvR is killing the playerbase at the moment.

I like the idea of the hostilitymechanic but you guys (devs) have to tweak it so groups want to go to the sea again every evening and enjoy some pvp in hostility areas

OR

get the old mechanic back.

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For the War Supplies, instead of making them add to the hostility could you make them work as a multiplier for the hostility one can do in that area, but for a set amount of time.

Nation A would drop the war supplies, and then depending on the amount of supplies they dropped they could get something like a x2 multiplier for hostility they do during a set amount of time. This will force attackers to stay in the area and do PvP to profit from the war supplies and will give the defenders time to actualy defend the area.

Could simulate the added chaos (read hostility) that would be created when people see both people storming the port with muskets, and seeing enemy ships battle on the ocean.

 

Edited by The Spud
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20 minutes ago, The Spud said:

For the War Supplies, instead of making them add to the hostility could you make them work as a multiplier for the hostility one can do in that area, but for a set amount of time.

Nation A would drop the war supplies, and then depending on the amount of supplies they dropped they could get something like a x2 multiplier for hostility they do during a set amount of time. This will force attackers to stay in the area and do PvP to profit from the war supplies and will give the defenders time to actualy defend the area.

Could simulate the added chaos (read hostility) that would be created when people see both people storming the port with muskets, and seeing enemy ships battle on the ocean.

 

to be honest even with only a x2 multiplayer we could make a PB in under an hour.

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One of the steps that can also be taken on pair with what theSpud suggests - War Supplies being deployed increasingly acting as a multiplier from 0.1x to 2.0x or something similar - is to limit ( Yes Limit ! ) the PvE participation towards hostility to Epic Events.

Was in a sorry state that I could experience first hand fleets of 3rd rates just chain mission Midshipman fleet missions and raised the hostility in a snapshot.

Where is the challenge ? Where is the risk ?

Port Battles must be content accessible at a faster pace - with reduced cooldowns after conquest of regions  - but at the same time raising / reducing hostility must be met with a measure of risk and challenge to both PvP and PvE playstyles. Meaning fleet roaming in search of Epic Events and patrols roaming to counter their moves.

Epic Events should obey the same exact RoE rules as normal PvP. Immediate closure.

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2 hours ago, Hethwill said:

One of the steps that can also be taken on pair with what theSpud suggests - War Supplies being deployed increasingly acting as a multiplier from 0.1x to 2.0x or something similar - is to limit ( Yes Limit ! ) the PvE participation towards hostility to Epic Events.

 

The current mechanic is difficult to encourage PvP.  If you only make PvP count as hostility a defending nation can avoid raising hostility by avoiding PvP (like not being there), if you allow PvE the attacker can avoid PvP by only doing PvE (like it is right now). We can't make it too easy to get PB's going (like with the hostility bombs), but we also can't make it too hard to make PB's only happen every now and then.

Might be an option to make a Port Attack a two stage event of some sorts. Like 22 hours after hostility reached 100% have the defending nation evacuate a vip or goods from the attacked regional capital to any allied regional capital. Would require both nations to have fast ships on the spot, as wel as bigger slower warships. Could be you need multiple ships to get all the stuff/people out (like 3 LGV's or 2 Indiaman) these ships could carry a flag in OW. Could even implement the option to give out one or two fake flags, to give the defender some tactics. Send out all ships together, send out one after the other. Use a bit of bluff etc... Maybe the outcome of this, like defenders can get more then 50% safely out of the regional capital, could change some of the PB conditions slightly towards the winning side (by a reasonable but non decisive margin).

Would also in some ways prevent the logging out in front of port as they no longer have 46 hours to do so, but only have 22 hours or less (as there will be action for at least two hours around the regional capital that is being attacked).

There's plenty of possibilities to implement some interesting stuff.

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4 hours ago, rediii said:

Please get us PvP again. The 46 hours timer encourages people to not play the game for 2 days

I would like just to point out that without war supplies in work and possibility to create 3 ,4 PB's at once people should be able to play during those 2 days creating another PB. Now its just the game of dropping your supplies and waiting for enemy to drop theirs.
 

3 hours ago, Hethwill said:

Port Battles must be content accessible at a faster pace - with reduced cooldowns after conquest of regions  - but at the same time raising / reducing hostility must be met with a measure of risk and challenge to both PvP and PvE playstyles. Meaning fleet roaming in search of Epic Events and patrols roaming to counter their moves.

 

I disagree with reduced cooldowns at current game state. Very often creating your outpost and gathering mats to craft a ship with regional bonus for which you fought, takes too much time. If you lower the cooldown it will only cause crafting rat race. The game would have to be changed in that aspect also.

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Just now, Borch said:

I would like just to point out that without war supplies in work and possibility to create 3 ,4 PB's at once people should be able to play during those 2 days creating another PB. Now its just the game of dropping your supplies and waiting for enemy to drop theirs.

one nation can create 2 portbattles and the way to create portbattle isnt fun (missions, crafting/hauling) and this is why people stop playing at the moment. The hard-mode crafting too but we all got enough ships to throw at you. Its just the pure boredom while generating hostility and searching for pvp which makes people stop playing the game

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Dunno if someone was proposing this, but why we cant have old "flag" port battles back for sole purpose of rising hostility?
I mean allow to pull one flag for region per nation ( for example as dutch we can pull one flag for cartagena de indias till we get port battle ) and it randomly gives us fight for city in that region ( not capital ).

With that we have oppurnity for more pvp be it screening or port battles.

Defenders clearly can see when enemy is trying to rise hostility. Attackers need to get there and actually fight for it.

See no cons only prons.

Balance amount of hostility for getting one port ( dunno 25%? ). If defender wins pb, dont allow another "attack" on port in that region for some time? 2h? 4h? Or leave it without cooldown? But i think there should be reward for defenders imo.

If defenders and attackers shows up there will be plenty of pvp. Plenty of hostility going up and down. Even if attacker loose port battle they can sink lots of enemies ( check bermuda and danes for example ) and still rise hostility up! Also screening!

To be more exciting defenders only know that there will be attack on some city in certain region!

Please allow to pull only 2 such flags against one nation at once. So we`ll not see fake flags.

Idea need some polish here and there but it should bring back more fun and some people may come back to the game.

And maybe we`ll see more action with lower quality ships?

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It shouldn't be possible to get the 100% Hostility by war supplies! I saw it comming that the whole Hostility is getting by war supplies and there will be only get Portbattles with war supplies bombs! That destroys the gameplay around PB. Pleas do something against it and do it fast!!! I dont know the best solition for this but maybe fix it for the first time by set the maximum hostility by war supplies arround 75%.

Otherwasy it gets really disappointed and annoyed when PB allways starts at midnigt for other timezones. For example US-player against EU-player.

but maybe it chanches with the new BP-system but keep it in minde im far not the only one who is disapointet about this point of the Hostility-system.

 

Best regards 

Sili

Edited by Siliexe
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1 hour ago, Siliexe said:

It shouldn't be possible to get the 100% Hostility by war supplies! I saw it comming that the whole Hostility is getting by war supplies and there will be only get Portbattles with war supplies bombs! That destroys the gameplay around PB. Pleas do something against it and do it fast!!! I dont know the best solition for this but maybe fix it for the first time by set the maximum hostility by war supplies arround 75%.

Otherwasy it gets really disappointed and annoyed when PB allways starts at midnigt for other timezones. For example US-player against EU-player.

but maybe it chanches with the new BP-system but keep it in minde im far not the only one who is disapointet about this point of the Hostility-system.

 

Best regards 

Sili

Quote

First change that will come this content patch is the limitation on the hostility points generated by war supplies. War supplies will only allow generation of hostility up to 50% and the rest will have to be done by pvp or pve. 

Overall we are not yet sure if war supplies is a good idea (promoting fair play) and if we don't find the solution this feature will be removed from the game.

 

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This current system simply does not work. I know we were not satisfied with conquest flags and their abuse, this system though is killing the game.

In my humble opinion,we need again player generated hostility, which can be provided instantly. Flags or whatever it may be called or created,needs some kind of BRAKE to avoid abuse as far as possible. Make this conquest flag or bomb, or attack thing(call it what you want), either expensive, or limit their number per nation/per day.

Currently a nation with large population can easily stop attacking fleet from smaller nation through screening, which makes it AT THE MOMENT, almost impossible for smaller nations to attack region in PB. Combined with FINE WOOD "mess", and current low COMPASS WOOD drop rate(5-6%), many players became unconfident with new situation.

This resulted in huge player drop and killed the motivation for PvP and RvR.

 

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I do not see just “doom and gloom” for the conquest mechanics: basis is there and the challenge is to streamline the hostility generation in form of PvP.

Flag mechanics has been mentioned from time to time, but I think there are very few wishing it to return in its original form. However, flag mechanics might be of use for hostility generation I suppose.
 

Maybe smth like this can do the trick (I might echo or repeat ideas of others here, but I’ll spill the beans anyway): use flag mechanics to generate PvP missions fought in PvP zones a la current PVP mission zones. In some detail:

 

Player A delivers war supplies/money (or whatever) in capital to generate hostility mission(s); war should cost money, right? The player receives one or more notes/orders (for a single or simultaneous hostility missions, open for discussions). Opening of such a note would generate a PvP zone in a given region (a la current PvP mission zone) and within that zone a mission (battle instance) is created and (importantly!) a mission flag is generated. The flag bearer would create a group with the mission to bring the flag to the PvP zone and activate the mission by entering the battle. Initially, the exact location of the mission is visible only to the flag bearer (although all know it is somewhere in that zone) and after the mission activation the location would become visible to all on the server (in OW and/or on the map), and players busy with screening within hostility zone can join battle instance itself.

Importantly, hostility points (damage XP or whatever?) can be gained only after mission is activated and battle is won ( applying simple criteria like damage XP ration, or BR ratio, whatever), but PvP rewards applies to any PvP in that zone to both winners and losers (well, the winners get better rewards I suppose). Additional reward could be provided for intercepting the flag, e.g., by tagging it in battle and then boarding or sinking the flag bearer before flag is used for activating the hostility mission. The captured flag can be send to admiralty for a very handsome reward. This would make screening game more fun and more rewarding. Pirates can hunt flag as well and sell it for good money/reward, thus providing service to nations.

Of course, details like when hostility missions can be triggered, visibility of the flag, for how long battle is open, level of battle (BR, type of ships are to be discussed), participation of allies, etc should to be worked out. Simultaneous generation of say 3 adjacent zones with own mission would allow a larger numbers of players to get involved.

The main idea is to strongly encourage and make PvP preceding PB interesting and rewarding for all and in itself, with PB being cherry on the pie and to decouple OW screening and PB itself. The above formula will include the OW screening of the port attack and would allow (imho) to make PB a lobby event (for better organization and a different experience). To make port battles (land in sight) more accessible for all, port raiding should still be implemented (sort of PB light).

Finally, a successful hostility generation campaign would require proper intelligence, good coordination, good ships, and would emphasize MMO aspect of the game. But, there will be place for players of all ranks and skills to join and enjoy.

Edited by Stilgar

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