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Please post your feedback on port battle set up, hostility points and other issues with hostility system

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Obviously can't tell about port battles activity themslves yet however hostility goes up way too fast and the battles seem to heavily limit activity to one timezone and into weird times for those who activated it so far by setting it to two hours earlier.

 

My proposal would be to let hostility be generated over roughly a whole week and only allow 2 port battles a week per nation. This would get a lot more activity into the region from either side (if interested in the region of course) and include efforts from all timezones (should balance out as Brits might do their work spread over all timezones while Danes accumulate all/same amount in 5 hours and this runs for a whole week to give enough chances to up or down the hostility). On port battle day (still 2 days later (maybe reduce to one due to 7 days prep time already but keep one day shift as to shift the port battle day) all ports become attackable in the region isntead of just the main port. If a port is not attacked the current owner has 'won' it. Regional capital could count as 2 for a tie breaker. Between the port battles needs to be a minimum of 1 hour (adjust to reasonable time limit) as to give all timezones a chance for activity (either between the starts or end and then start (could help less timezone spread nations to still keep their main activity going for the port battles)). At the end of port battle day the nation which holds the majority of ports gains/keeps the region. I'd advise to not have both port battles on the same day as to not overload a smaller nation with attacks. Also port battles should only be startable by people with a certain minimum of hostility gained points(keep to a reasonable amount as to not end up with nobody able to start the battle if one eprson is sick or can't attend for some reason) as to prevent alts or overly zealous newbies fromt starting the attacks without backup or at daft o'clock.

 

Additional idea: regions can only be taken next to already owned regions - this prevents ridiculous jumps over half the map and the necessity for players to constantly shift their outposts over ridiculous distances. (yet another time saver and more players will be able to partake in the actual realm vs realm mechanics)

 

P.S.: Missions should still be available within the capital region as to allow teleports at least until the ship transfer is implemented so a big amount of people can arrive at the region without wasting too much time for several sails and stupidly far away teleports.

Edited by JollyRoger1516

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Additional idea: regions can only be taken next to already owned regions - this prevents ridiculous jumps over half the map and the necessity for players to constantly shift their outposts over ridiculous distances. (yet another time saver and more players will be able to partake in the actual realm vs realm mechanics)

 

P.S.: Missions should still be available within the capital region as to allow teleports at least until the ship transfer is implemented so a big amount of people can arrive at the region without wasting too much time for several sails and stupidly far away teleports.

 

I thought one of the major selling points for getting rid of flags was so we didn't have the limitation of only being able to attack nearby regions. If I'm the USA and I'm getting my butt kicked, I WANT to be able to take an expeditionary force to Mexico and try to capture a far away region, or else I'll be wiped out. Not saying that will be successful, but it needs to at least be an option.

 

As to the PS, yes, we need to test a ship delivery system ASAP but it should come at a high cost or a high cool down or both.

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My reply to the OP: I don't think hostility is all that important as far as being the focus for things to tweak. Conquest has been slowed down considerably since we now have decent cool-downs and the fact that only 2 ports can be attacked at a time. That seems to be a good pace to keep players from being burned out on continuously fighting port battles and having to move all of their stuff around every day. Cool-downs could probably be a bit longer, actually. This allows nations to actually get some benefit and try to build up an economy in the region before having to worry about losing the port again. That's good for casual players who were often frustrated before the patch when they moved their outposts only to find that when they returned in a few days the port with the outpost was lost again and it was time to strip all the permanent mods and attempt to smuggle out their ships.

 

If I may suggest also, that players are perhaps trying to use the new system with old habits. Find a place OTHER than the capital that will become popular.( check the resources). Stake out your claim. Defend the area.

Edited by ajffighter86

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I think Naval Action should go into direction of a following goals:

- make awesome moments (naval fights) more often, and boring moments (sailing around, looking for enemies) more rare

- simplify complex mechanisms that can be exploited, and remove features that feel like a tedious work
- give more PvP to players that want PvP, and more PvE to players that want PvE

 

I think there are some low hanging fruits here. Those are:

  1. increase number of outpost by 5, to allow people to be present in more regions. This will eliminate pointless sailing on an empty sea.

  2. allow to deliver ships between ports, just like resource delivery works

  3. set port battle time based on the hour when most of attacker's BR was in the area, not based on the time when hostility ticked to 100%. This will allow to avoid exploits and unfriendly times of PB's

  4. point coordinates of missions increasing hostility on the map or in map tools, with an on-screen notification (like with eg. information about crafted flags worked). This will generate more PvP in fights for hostility.

  5. show which regions of your nation have enemy non-smuggler ships present, to focus PvP fights on them (eg. none / a few / many / invasion force)

  6. bring back PvE missions in home waters, just with lower XP and gold gain. If you want to give incentive for PvE players to join PvP, you can make some types of missions available only in enemy waters. Once they're bored with standard PvE, they will want to try a new kind of missions.

 

More complex, however a possible big improvement:

  1. whenever someone starts a mission, he should wait in a 5-minute timer. Within this time, any defender could teleport to a mission from a contested region, just as if he was joining eg. a small battle. People can teleport until they're matching BR of the invading fleet. BR difference should be filled by AI. During the 5-minute timer, attacker can be interrupted in OW. Two missions couldn't be triggered in the same time. Next person that would like to trigger hostility mission, would have to wait 5 minutes.

Edited by vazco
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I find that it is still possible to run "old fashioned" missions that have no impact on hostility.  For example, if I'm in South Carolina and pick a mission in North Carolina, it apparently has no impact on hostility, which is completely logical.  However, if I want to run such a mission (to test out a new ship for example before venturing into hostile waters) I have to travel approximately two to three times further (into the next region) as I used to have to do under the old system.  What's the point of that?  Why can't I run simple old-style missions within the same state?

Edited by Wrongway Peter Peachfuzz

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Well, I can understand that some (such as yourself) might like it and some (such as myself) might not, but that doesn't really explain why it has to be all one way or all the other.  Why can't new-style hostility missions and old-style quick missions exist side by side, particularly since I can still actually run non-hostility missions, it just takes 2-3x longer than it used to. 

 

I would also suggest that a game that has seen the drop in numbers that this one has should be very cautious about writing off the entire category of "30 minute" players.   The audience for a reasonably realistic online game covering the age of sail is probably pretty limited to start with, and if the quickest "action" you can get takes an hour and a half to two hours to complete (and can't be interrupted without the risk of losing a precious dura to your already-expensive ship) it's likely to shrink even further.

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I like the way the game is now - at least for PvP.  It forces you to constantly revise your outposts to 1) collect needed materials, and 2) position yourself closer to the enemy you are trying to attack.

 

With only 5 production buildings, I'm sure to trash a few of those and rebuild new ones to harvest different materials in different outposts.

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so far i have had fun with the new missions and hostility system. Has made the hunt for pvp more enjoyable imo. Knowing that when i find an enemy player im not only going to get to kill/capture him but it will also cause them to loose points to take that area or give me points to take theirs. 

 

The only problem i have seen so far is that the best defence for a region is to just not be there and have them try to force out the hostility with pve as it takes a really long time

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The only problem i have seen so far is that the best defence for a region is to just not be there and have them try to force out the hostility with pve as it takes a really long time

 

Yes...  painfully slow.  We've been running group missions to grow the aggression - but when you combine the time to the mission and back, it's not unusual for a single mission to chew up 1-1.5 hours. 

 

Solo, I've been trying to cap AI traders - but with the enlarged zones pulling in AI fleets, that's not as easy as it used to be - especially on some of the areas around small islands where you cannot see all the possible places an AI enemy fleet can be hiding. 

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the best way i have seen so far to do the missions is to have small groups of 3-4 people doing fleet missions and having like 3-4 groups going at once. But that really doesnt matter with the rate of decay + that nation doing missions of their own in that area

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Solo, I've been trying to cap AI traders - but with the enlarged zones pulling in AI fleets, that's not as easy as it used to be - especially on some of the areas around small islands where you cannot see all the possible places an AI enemy fleet can be hiding. 

 

I don't think I've seen a single foreign AI trader since the patch came out, either in friendly or hostile territory  Plenty of  monstrous SOL fleets that would have given Nelson a stroke, but no AI traders.  Might be just a coincidenc.

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I don't think I've seen a single foreign AI trader since the patch came out, either in friendly or hostile territory  Plenty of  monstrous SOL fleets that would have given Nelson a stroke, but no AI traders.  Might be just a coincidenc.

 

There are plenty out there.  I snagged two LGV's this morning.  Yesterday and Saturday probably capped 6 or 7 LGV's or Trader Snows.  and yes, there are some brutal fleets that can be pulled in.... 

 

I also captured a Trader Lynx loaded with double the correct weight of materials in the hold (and filed an F11 on it).

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Please post your feedback on port battle set up, hostility points and other issues with hostility system

 

why are normal ports not capturable or able to attack anymore ?? 

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In my opinion the hostility generation is overall to high. It's the same like the event we had. As soon you there it's all over.

I thought his cool feature was introduced to generate pvp in that zone. But instead it's a pve grind fest.

The generation of hostility for a region should take days to show/point out the nation's effort and not a few hours.

Furthermore make hostility generation depending on player numbers. That means if there are more defenders than attackers hostility gen. Is reduced (and the other way). But still not possible with a few guys to reach Max hostility in a few hours, please.

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If the main problem is defenders not being able to react to the hostility before ii reaches 100%  , maybe aomething as siple as a dairy limit will fix this. i.e. no zone can vary more than a 50%, 30% or 25% in a 24 hours period.

 

Tinkering with the numbers have the problem of being too dependant on online/faction players and week day (though a perfect equation would probably be superior  to limits)

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How about we add a mission type... patrol. This type will require you to patrol a border area... It would not give you battle XP (only if you engage) but it would reduce hostility....

 

I would love to patrol in search of PVP, would be nice that only your presence woudl reduce hostilty,

 

 

Also i found some area to be quite large, Port-Au prince is really large to patrol....

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If the main problem is defenders not being able to react to the hostility before ii reaches 100% , maybe aomething as siple as a dairy limit will fix this. i.e. no zone can vary more than a 50%, 30% or 25% in a 24 hours period.

Tinkering with the numbers have the problem of being too dependant on online/faction players and week day (though a perfect equation would probably be superior to limits)

If there are limits per hour people will just logout and wait till the next hostility window is open. That still means no possible pvp around the clock.
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If the main problem is defenders not being able to react to the hostility before ii reaches 100%  , maybe aomething as siple as a dairy limit will fix this. i.e. no zone can vary more than a 50%, 30% or 25% in a 24 hours period.

 

Tinkering with the numbers have the problem of being too dependant on online/faction players and week day (though a perfect equation would probably be superior  to limits)

 or make it so that you will have to cap all the normal port and then the regional capital and then you have the region

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Why does hostility degrade over time? You advertise this game as a sandbox game run by players and then put a bunch of server ran programs to limit said sandbox! If you want to lower the hostility in your region, sail your but there and lower it yourself instead of waiting for the server to do it for you. If there is no degrade then hostility can been geared to take several days making the patch do what it was said to do. Make PB a national effort and allowing defenders time to defend. Hostility degrade is your biggest issue and needs to go!

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I posted this in the patch feedback but I'll also post it here.

 

The window for building to 100% hostility ends too early before server reset and means that those of us who like to play in the North American western time zones will never see a port battle during prime time (in the evening).  Does it really need to close 4 hours before server reset?

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Why does hostility degrade over time? You advertise this game as a sandbox game run by players and then put a bunch of server ran programs to limit said sandbox! If you want to lower the hostility in your region, sail your but there and lower it yourself instead of waiting for the server to do it for you. If there is no degrade then hostility can been geared to take several days making the patch do what it was said to do. Make PB a national effort and allowing defenders time to defend. Hostility degrade is your biggest issue and needs to go!

 

Sometimes people have to go to work. Degrading hostility means that unless S.H.T.F. completely while they are at work, at least they have a chance to try to do something about it before a port battle is triggered.

 

Still it is too easy to trigger port battles. Danes just went from 10% to 30% just ganking lone players on the USA coast, in the span of about an hour.

 

I'd rather not have the fate of a nation depend on that new guy who just got his first trader brig.

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Once hostility is generated in a region, you will gain the ability to take anti-hostility missions in that region, thus defend the region. 

 

Wow did you even understand what I said? Right now you do not need to defend anything the Hostility goes down on its own.

Sometimes people have to go to work. Degrading hostility means that unless S.H.T.F. completely while they are at work, at least they have a chance to try to do something about it before a port battle is triggered.

 

Still it is too easy to trigger port battles. Danes just went from 10% to 30% just ganking lone players on the USA coast, in the span of about an hour.

 

I'd rather not have the fate of a nation depend on that new guy who just got his first trader brig.

 

Work? Everyone works, goes to school, sleeps, so? Stuff happens when your not online in an online game get over it. Yes hostility is to easy because it has to be to counter act the degrade! Get rid of the degrade, and make the hostility take a solid 24 hours of grinding (which will be a couple of days for a particular time zone) to do. Then you have time to defend and time to attack if the enemy does not defend it. It should take the same amount of effort to defend a region as it takes to attack one!

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Personally I really like this new system over the old one.

 

This system is a much more realistic system, in that in the real world, nations can't just move massive amounts of war material on a strategic level to a location over night and conquer it in  2 hours. Nor can a defender regroup, replenish and counterattack overnight in the same manner. Either case at a minimum days or weeks of prep, planning and positioning.

 

This system allows those that can't necessarily be on when Port Battles happen to contribute to the overall effort thru hostility generation and reduction thru other missions. The cool downs are great, because they allow a nation time to reap the benefits of taking a given region for a few days before having to defend it.

 

Under the old system, you could take half a dozen ports today only to come back in 48 hours and they are all gone. Created a situation where you felt you had to be on every day or you would log on in 96hours only to find your nation no longer existed.

 

Hostility generation may still need some tweaking, but overall is just about right.

 

The complaints that just a couple of players can raise hostility to 100% in  few hours is non-sense. It took roughly 15-20 of my clan/faction at least 48 hours to raise hostility to 100% in Andros.

 

I personally earned just over 3000 hostility point in the Costa del Fuego region over about 72 hours, and that was doing mostly PVE fleet 152 lvl missions from around 8AM-9PM (13hours) while I had a couple days off to relax.

 

Hostility degrading is realistic a factor, in that if I am trying to conquer an area, and I don't go there for awhile, the local faction/owners/insurgents/etc are going to mitigate some of the gains I made until I return. This aspect simulates the sort of behind the scenes efforts of militia and such.

 

The ability to generate hostility anywhere on the map is also realistic. In the real world we are not limited to only attacking the region next door.

 

The only thing I am still working out is how best to reduce the hostility generated by an enemy against a 3rd party nations region, if I am not seeking to conquer that region also, just want to impeded the other enemy from doing so.

 

Most of the complaints seem to really be from people who are still too tied to the old system and just need to take the time to get used to the new one. Or are looking for  instant battles with rapid outcomes in a World of Warships style of play. This isn't that kind of game.

 

Overall I have to say this patch has brought the game closer to more realistic, both strategic and tactical, gameplay.

 

My only real complaint would be the continuance of closed battles. It is understandable that battles should take place in an Instance rather than Open World. But if  I sail past a battle in the real world, and I can see it still in progress, I always have the option to engage or avoid. Seems this should also be the case in game.

 

Obviously this creates the risk of any numbers of hostiles showing up at any moment to turn the tide of battle. But that is realistic.

 

 

 

 

 

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Swedish Chef, on 25 Oct 2016 - 4:00 PM, said:

Why does hostility degrade over time? You advertise this game as a sandbox game run by players and then put a bunch of server ran programs to limit said sandbox! If you want to lower the hostility in your region, sail your but there and lower it yourself instead of waiting for the server to do it for you. If there is no degrade then hostility can been geared to take several days making the patch do what it was said to do. Make PB a national effort and allowing defenders time to defend. Hostility degrade is your biggest issue and needs to go!

 

Setting the conditions so that a PB can happen (100% hostility) is a national effort.

 

Defenders do have time to defend. Once a the condition is set for a PB to happen (100% hostility achieved) the defender has 46 hours to get his forces in position to defend it.

 

Hostility degradation over time when the aggressor is not actively attacking is realistic. Simulates the behind the scenes activities of NPC smugglers, raiders, militia, spies, etc. that would negate some of an aggressors gains when the aggressor is not represent to stop them.

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