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This system prevents people from coming over the horizon to help.

 

 

​This new system is to small.  Tested yesterday.  i was away 30 sec full speed in OW (no were nier horizont) Could not join. 

 

Secondary circle is way to small. I hope we get a chance to test is 100% bigger. 

 

​What size is secondary circle sailing on good wind? 20 sec !!!

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We can't stick together AND chase the enemy unless we have almost identical ships. It just doesn't work because of the speed difference, and the new RoE simply make it worse. I get that you guys want some realism in the game, and I do too, but realism isn't always a good thing. It's making random OW PvP almost impossible to do. The only way we can get some OW PvP is if the enemy decide to stand their ground, or we somehow catch them with their pants down.

 

 

Yes you can. Stop chasing raider 6th and 5th rates with ships of the line. Otherwise we're back to the bullshit fail fit renomee/rattlesnake sailing up next to the target to tag, then the SoLs and heavy frigates drop in through the tag circle. 

 

 

 

We were all pretty close together, and not "over the horizon". A quick fix would be either make the pull circle much larger, or to go back to the old system. It just doesn't work right now. There's no fun in it, just frustration. I see where you're going with all of this, and it would be great if it actually worked, but it doesn't. Lots of people have tested the new RoE and I don't recall seeing a single person say that they liked the change. In fact, they're very vocal about stating the opposite. It doesn't matter how many times you try to explain it, the practical doesn't match the theoretical.

 

Obviously not, as the circle already is quite large (though I do think making it slightly larger wouldn't hurt). If one of you was in tag range of that French fleet, and the rest of you were "quite close", ALL of you would have been pulled into battle.

 

 

Almost everyone I know is just doing PvE missions and trading, on a PvP server. Yes, I know it's only day 2 after the patch. I don't expect miracles but I do expect things to change. The system doesn't work. It's not fun, and that's the whole point of playing a game. I see the logic in choosing this new mechanic but we need to find some middle ground between this and the old mechanic. We need to find a balance.

 

I doubt there's been much change in PVE/trading vs PVP in the before/after of the patch. It's been this way with mission grinders and traveling compass wood salesmen for most of the this year. Regarding the new mechanic, this was chosen AS the balance because people were complaining that they had no way to help friends who were attacked by other players. Now those players being attacked have a massive tag circle to draw nearby friendlies into battle, and forts in home territory to defend them against aggressors. The only caveat is that anyone helping you must be at sea and must be within the massive tag circle. Which really isn't that hard to do.

Edited by Enraged Ewok

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Second circle needs to be expanded. Agreed and suggested it. Everything else as it is looks pretty decent.

 

Do not forget that the horizon in the OW is not a literal translation of the battle horizon. It is probably 5 times further away which is pretty not to scale.

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You can chase effectively with the raider wing and tag attack. The main man'owar wing will simply be on the outer circle but in good chase range for the engagement.

 

Major major major difference is that now the entire squadron will not spawn at the same tiny spot unless they are effectively in the tag circle.

 

It works both ways, in a defensive formation as much as in a attacker.

 

Battle screen is not of this discussion but still maybe they logout in BS and go for a break ? who knows...

 

My advice ? Next time try to stick together. Send out fast ships to scout and report back, keep focused and with the fleet in good order. The old fashion tag and rubber band stragglers to tag point is over. Adapt and conquer.

I dare you to crate a Video of your Dream tactics.  

 

It doesn't work due to speed differences. unless all sailing same ships. 

 

 

Your tactics are sound but only on paper. 

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Yes you can. Stop chasing raider 6th and 5th rates with ships of the line. Otherwise we're back to the bullshit fail fit renomee/rattlesnake sailing up next to the target to tag, then the SoLs and heavy frigates drop in through the tag circle. 

 

We were in 4th and 5th rates, chasing other 4th and 5th rates.

 

 

Obviously not, as the circle already is quite large (though I do think making it slightly larger wouldn't hurt). If one of you was in tag range of that French fleet, and the rest of you were "quite close", ALL of you would have been pulled into battle.

 

Unless the lead ships were on the edge of the circle, which the tagger can see, and they were. Stop making assumptions, you weren't there.

 

 

I doubt there's been much change in PVE/trading vs PVP in the before/after of the patch. It's been this way with mission grinders and traveling compass wood salesmen for most of the this year. Regarding the new mechanic, this was chosen AS the balance because people were complaining that they had no way to help friends who were attacked by other players. Now those players being attacked have a massive tag circle to draw nearby friendlies into battle, and forts in home territory to defend them against aggressors. The only caveat is that anyone helping you must be at sea and must be within the massive tag circle. Which really isn't that hard to do.

 

Like I said in my previous comment, we need a balance between the old and the new. Neither way is perfect, but the old way was more fun. The devs need to find some middle ground. Everyone knows they go from one extreme to the other when they implement new mechanics, then we help them find a balance. That's all I was saying.

Edited by Purple Ronnie

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Second circle needs to be expanded. Agreed and suggested it. Everything else as it is looks pretty decent.

Do not forget that the horizon in the OW is not a literal translation of the battle horizon. It is probably 5 times further away which is pretty not to scale.

On my monitor the second circle covers the entire screen.

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Yes you can. Stop chasing raider 6th and 5th rates with ships of the line. Otherwise we're back to the bullshit fail fit renomee/rattlesnake sailing up next to the target to tag, then the SoLs and heavy frigates drop in through the tag circle.

Obviously not, as the circle already is quite large (though I do think making it slightly larger wouldn't hurt). If one of you was in tag range of that French fleet, and the rest of you were "quite close", ALL of you would have been pulled into battle.

I doubt there's been much change in PVE/trading vs PVP in the before/after of the patch. It's been this way with mission grinders and traveling compass wood salesmen for most of the this year. Regarding the new mechanic, this was chosen AS the balance because people were complaining that they had no way to help friends who were attacked by other players. Now those players being attacked have a massive tag circle to draw nearby friendlies into battle, and forts in home territory to defend them against aggressors. The only caveat is that anyone helping you must be at sea and must be within the massive tag circle. Which really isn't that hard to do.

I do like that no more can the rear admiral in his basic cutter run me down and tag me so the 3rd rates can shread me.

Just wish the ai pulled in was BR limited or something so im not pulling in 20 ai ships each time.

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On my monitor the second circle covers the entire screen.

https://youtu.be/pu2lF2Y7Rz0?t=769

 

 

I was surprised how small the second circle was, given that everyone else gets locked out. Will probably be even easier to attack people in full view of their friends now.

 

Of course, I was unable to test it because I couldn't find any hostile NPCs in capital waters on short notice.

 

 

 

 

Just wish the ai pulled in was BR limited or something so im not pulling in 20 ai ships each time. 

I wish AI routes weren't bound so tightly to the coastlines. But that's a lot of work to adjust.

 

There are definitely too many AI fleets. PvE groups should go after missions instead, and leave most OW bots to be solo.

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Second circle needs to be expanded. Agreed and suggested it. Everything else as it is looks pretty decent.

 

Do not forget that the horizon in the OW is not a literal translation of the battle horizon. It is probably 5 times further away which is pretty not to scale.

some solo players dont like the new circles as they cant escape powerful ganks now.. 

smaller tag circles eliminated counter tag

https://youtu.be/pu2lF2Y7Rz0?t=769

 

 

 

There are definitely too many AI fleets. PvE groups should go after missions instead, and leave most OW bots to be solo.

20 per region

maybe too much given they respawn

 

propose the fleet compositions and routes.  they are not hard to adjust. we can tell them where to sail and with what chance this decision should be made. 

https://youtu.be/pu2lF2Y7Rz0?t=769

 

 

I was surprised how small the second circle was, given that everyone else gets locked out. Will probably be even easier to attack people in full view of their friends now.

 

 

Its still big.

to increase it we need to stop pulling npcs in and make npcs unpulleable (so they exist just for attack) 

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Its still big.

to increase it we need to stop pulling npcs in and make npcs unpulleable (so they exist just for attack) 

I would consider pulling in NPCs from the smaller circle only.

 

That way traders can attempt to hide behind powerful NPCs (although it probably won't work).

 

But solo hunters won't be annoyed by huge fleets of bots slowly approaching, or have to chase their prey towards said bots.

 

 

 

 

propose the fleet compositions and routes.  they are not hard to adjust. we can tell them where to sail and with what chance this decision should be made. 
  • More solo NPCs
  • Fewer swarms of light vessels (x3 7th rates is more than enough, as fighting a horde of schooners is no fun for frigate captains)
  • If bots are following the coastline, they should sail at varying distances from the coast, all the way out to the horizon and beyond.

 

Remember the first iteration of NPC pathing where there was an eight-lane superhighway of bot just over the horizon north of Hispaniola? Bots should still be spending time out there, even if they are just sailing from Yucatan to Panama along the coast. That way they won't be so dense near the forts.

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I would like the players who say that this present form of ROE is good to post videos of the tag their group gets against a determined bunch of gankers who are determined to run. With a varied fleet not all sailing the same vessels. That includes the gankers not all in the same vessels! Much appreciated I need teaching the ways of the Jedi :)

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I think the system is working, if your ships/fleet are too slow... get smaller faster ships.

 

The issue with the old ROE system was that no matter how fast your (ship/fleet) was, if the enemy had one fast ship they can tackle your small (ship/fleet) and then drop in larger ships on top of the smaller faster fleet. Under the new system smaller ships can easily out maneuver larger ships as it should be, this should bring back more frigate focused combat, and also allow frigates to screen larger fleets since they no longer have to worry about being tagged then dropped on by a larger fleet they could easily out sail.

Edited by Rramsha

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some solo players dont like the new circles as they cant escape powerful ganks now..

smaller tag circles eliminated counter tag

20 per region

maybe too much given they respawn

propose the fleet compositions and routes. they are not hard to adjust. we can tell them where to sail and with what chance this decision should be made.

Its still big.

to increase it we need to stop pulling npcs in and make npcs unpulleable (so they exist just for attack)

Yes that last idea is good. Either only pull in players or even limit the amount of ai by BR or something.

Still best if the second circle only pulled in human players .

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Its still big.

to increase it we need to stop pulling npcs in and make npcs unpulleable (so they exist just for attack) 

 

I would suggest leaving it as it is for now? There are many solo traders in smaller nations that just don't have the opportunities to sail with escort, and doing short trade runs around your capital, being able to rely on NPC fleets as cover should be a viable strategy.  I think the prevalence of the NPC fleets beyond capital zones should drop off, increasing the risk of sailing alone, but I wouldn't eliminate the AI especially with server populations still quite low.

 

There's a risk v. reward for privateering (speaking as a privateer, not as a trader) and I find the OW much more engaging now as I plan attacks on lone traders, having to account for shoreline batteries and AI fleets in ways that I didn't have to before.  It's far, far more enjoyable for me, and I suspect that privateers/pirates just need to adjust their parameters for picking targets and they'll be back to their old ways before long.

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New system is the best ROE yet, and eliminates nonsense of late joiners piling in on top of ships "pinned" by super-fast, super-weak chase ships.  However, it might be a bit too rigid for group play.  My suggestion: allow entry after battle is created from edge of the large circle for 1 min.  Position in battle would be relative to point where you joined. This should maintain the "fight what you see" rule.

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New system is the best ROE yet, and eliminates nonsense of late joiners piling in on top of ships "pinned" by super-fast, super-weak chase ships.  However, it might be a bit too rigid for group play.  My suggestion: allow entry after battle is created from edge of the large circle for 1 min.  Position in battle would be relative to point where you joined. This should maintain the "fight what you see" rule.

 

 

I totally agree, though rather than implement some kind of late joining I'd just expand the circle slightly more. But I wouldn't expand it too much. It's my experience so far, especially with the decreased time of actual engagements due to crew losses, that unless you're in a very fast ship and you're near the edge of the engagement zone, the battle is mostly over by the time you reach it (which is as it should be).

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New system is the best ROE yet, and eliminates nonsense of late joiners piling in on top of ships "pinned" by super-fast, super-weak chase ships.  However, it might be a bit too rigid for group play.  My suggestion: allow entry after battle is created from edge of the large circle for 1 min.  Position in battle would be relative to point where you joined. This should maintain the "fight what you see" rule.

This is the sort of balance I was referring to earlier. Just give us a small chance to actually get into the battle that we're practically already on top of.

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Hello dear people. 

 

My problem is that I am not very rich in this game but still I get ganked everyday. I lose ships and crew which I can not afford. This as itself is not the problem but that I can not get any kind of help even if I were few minutes away from my clan and capital. Doesn't sound very realistic does it?

 

At the moment if you get attacked battle closes immediately and nobody can basicly join. There was this one guy very close to me but I couldn't go to help him because the wind was bad at that time. This makes ganking too easy. There is no real danger to gankers if they decide to go into very deep of other nation's regions.

 

My suggestion and possible fix for this problem. I say battles should be open about half an hour but the later you join to the battle more far you will spawn in the battle map.

 

Example 1. Gank happens and somebody joins after 1 minute and he will be spawned about 200 metres away from the battle.

Example 2. Gank happens and somebody joins after 30 minutes and he will be spawned about 2000 metres away from the battle.

n

I just made up these numbers but you get the idea. Ganker still has a good chance to do what he was planning in the beginning if he times his attack well. But if he does it next to enemy Capital the there is a high chance others will be involved. Battles won't drag too long because there will be this half an hour time to join. Also the battle time would still stay the same 1h 40m from the beginning to the end. So if somebody joins after 30 minutes the battle started there will be 1h 10m time left on the battle.

 

If you see some problems with this suggestion, please be free to comment. Also if there is something you did not quite understand I will be happy to explain it better.

Edited by Captain Dingleberries

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Hello dear people.

My problem is that I am not very rich in this game but still I get ganked everyday. I lose ships and crew which I can not afford. This as itself is not the problem but that I can not get any kind of help even if I were few minutes away from my clan and capital. Doesn't sound very realistic does it?

At the moment if you get attacked battle closes immediately and nobody can basicly join. There was this one guy very close to me but I couldn't go to help him because the wind was bad at that time. This makes ganking too easy. There is no real danger to gankers if they decide to go into very deep of other nation's regions.

My suggestion and possible fix for this problem. I say battles should be open about half an hour but the later you join to the battle more far you will spawn in the battle map.

Example 1. Gank happens and somebody joins after 1 minute and he will be spawned about 200 metres away from the battle.

Example 2. Gank happens and somebody joins after 30 minutes and he will be spawned about 2000 metres away from the battle.

n

I just made up these numbers but you get the idea. Ganker still has a good chance to do what he was planning in the beginning if he times his attack well. But if he does it next to enemy Capital the there is a high chance others will be involved. Battles won't drag too long because there will be this half an hour time to join. Also the battle time would still stay the same 1h 40m from the beginning to the end. So if somebody joins after 30 minutes the battle started there will be 1h 10m time left on the battle.

If you see some problems with this suggestion, please be free to comment. Also if there is something you did not quite understand I will be happy to explain it better.

Not to sound rude, but if you are getting ganked constantly you are doing something very wrong.

Many people,myself included, spend thier sessions in the middle of hostile players and enemy waters and do not get ganked.

When we leave battle we are often surrounded by 30 players waiting to kill us and still manage an escape.

Its all about situational awareness and a good plan is all. If you are new you are just learning like we all did and you will develop these skills.

Also there is now a rookie area too.

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Not to sound rude, but if you are getting ganked constantly you are doing something very wrong.

Many people,myself included, spend thier sessions in the middle of hostile players and enemy waters and do not get ganked.

When we leave battle we are often surrounded by 30 players waiting to kill us and still manage an escape.

Its all about situational awareness and a good plan is all. If you are new you are just learning like we all did and you will develop these skills.

Also there is now a rookie area too.

You may be right. I myself am playing dutch which is rather small region and target by many countries. Everytime I have got ganked has been only 1-10 minutes away from our capital.

What about my suggestion? What do you think of it?

 

Or is this game meant to be 1 vs 1 and port battle?

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You may be right. I myself am playing dutch which is rather small region and target by many countries. Everytime I have got ganked has been only 1-10 minutes away from our capital.

What about my suggestion? What do you think of it?

Or is this game meant to be 1 vs 1 and port battle?

I think ( just my OP) is that this is supposed to be an open world simulator si just as in real life you would want the best odds available to you. So for people to sail in a flotilla is smart and the poor solo captain (such as myself ) must be on constant alert.

If you are looking to avoid "ganks" my advice would be to read your nations chat to see where bad guys are, to sail with other players if possible and if its just you out there then have the fastest ship you can and always keep looking around with the mouse (i seriously never stop rotation of my mouse) to know how far to the nearest escape rout and to be thinking of your escape plan the entire time.

I hunt trade ships alone or with one clan mate and am in enemy waters because that is where the food is. I usually lose a durability about once every 3 weeks ( as many US and British captains can tell you im very slippery )because I follow those rules.

Hope that helps you survive without having to ask for game changes sir.

Edit.. dont forget the Bahamas are now a rookie training ground and ment to let you get your feet wet. (Pun intended )

Edited by Mrdoomed

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One thing the new ROE does is really show how compressed the OW is and it will take some time getting used to it. Our group of 4 light frigates went out hunting near KPR. Usually we sail spread out but still close and all within visible range, I call it breathing room. Yesterday we saw a British Endy & frigate and decided to tag. Everyone was in the larger circle. When the battle started the farthest guy said he was 10 squares away (may have been an exaggeration). There would be no way from the 3 of us towards the back to catch up to the tagger & 2 enemies so we decided to let them go. Now it seems to fight together in the battle instance we have to sail right next to each other, tight, on the OW. It will just take time to get used to the ROE. Although, If I had a choice, I'd say revert to how it was.

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We can't stick together AND chase the enemy unless we have almost identical ships. It just doesn't work because of the speed difference, and the new RoE simply make it worse. I get that you guys want some realism in the game, and I do too, but realism isn't always a good thing. It's making random OW PvP almost impossible to do. The only way we can get some OW PvP is if the enemy decide to stand their ground, or we somehow catch them with their pants down.

 

The French fleet we were chasing had sailed all the way to Jamaica to cause trouble, then just turned around and ran when they found it, because reasons, and we literally couldn't do anything about it. After almost an hour, we just had to let them go. It doesn't "work both ways". They all pulled 2 of our ships into battle, twice, then hid in the battle screen after. There was nothing we could do. They had a distinct advantage, and any effort to level the playing field just failed miserably.

 

We were all pretty close together, and not "over the horizon". A quick fix would be either make the pull circle much larger, or to go back to the old system. It just doesn't work right now. There's no fun in it, just frustration. I see where you're going with all of this, and it would be great if it actually worked, but it doesn't. Lots of people have tested the new RoE and I don't recall seeing a single person say that they liked the change. In fact, they're very vocal about stating the opposite. It doesn't matter how many times you try to explain it, the practical doesn't match the theoretical.

 

Almost everyone I know is just doing PvE missions and trading, on a PvP server. Yes, I know it's only day 2 after the patch. I don't expect miracles but I do expect things to change. The system doesn't work. It's not fun, and that's the whole point of playing a game. I see the logic in choosing this new mechanic but we need to find some middle ground between this and the old mechanic. We need to find a balance.

 

 

Well....  You CAN sail together.  You just didnt.  Yes, the role of dedicated "tagger" ships has changed.  Which is good.

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