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ROE - rules of engagement feedback.

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Mrdoomed    1,531

So far i have found it almot impossible to attack a player trade ship, as i act like a true pirate, because it pulls in huge fleets. Either ai fleets need to be drastically reduced in number or the circle needs to be reduced.

5 hours so far of playm

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maturin    5,454

But how far away do those AI ships spawn?

 

A skilled hunter should be able to cap a trader before the AI can lazily sidle up alongside to take potshots.

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Cecil Selous    337

^this!

 

I had a similar case. I had to capture the LGV before the friendly dutch AI SOL fleet would arrive and sink the damn thing. Thx to crew damage and a fast boarding it worked.

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Mrdoomed    1,531

Its damn near impossible to act as a true pirate now. Any player is protected by a dozen ai war ships amd he just sails to them. And they aint far trust me.

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admin    28,086

20 fleets for every region. Fleets were more concentrated around capitals and freetowns before

Now they are regional and sometimes sail to nearby enemy regions. 

 

  1. For some regions 20 could be too much. But we believe that using terrain (including npc travel routes) is a feature not a bug. Don't you think?
  2. Also pull circle is large now. We dont yet know if it is ok in general and if it serves its purpose.
  3. Until grape is tuned you can just ninja board traders in front of their bots.

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Mrdoomed    1,531

20 fleets for every region. Fleets were more concentrated around capitals and freetowns before

Now they are regional and sometimes sail to nearby enemy regions.

  • For some regions 20 could be too much. But we believe that using terrain (including npc travel routes) is a feature not a bug. Don't you think?
  • Also pull circle is large now. We dont yet know if it is ok in general and if it serves its purpose.
  • Until grape is tuned you can just ninja board traders in front of their bots.

Cant find any coast not containing tons of fleets. Just shouldn't be so many ships.

Nations didnt have this many ships.

If it was player ships it would be ok but not ai.

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Vernon Merrill    2,436

The mechanics are great so far...  But I agree maybe the number of AI fleets needs to be tuned down like 25%....   So far its worked both FOR and AGAINST me, so it must be just about right...

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Cecil Selous    337

I even think that the pull circle is too small. It doesn't look like it covers the distance which we could sail before, when we had the 2 min timer. I can already imagine the outcry in front of kpr when the battle closes in sight and nobody can help :D

 

And maybe exclude AI from being pulled if your initial tag isn't on an AI ship. Or just pull AI until a certain BR threshold.

Edited by Cecil Selous

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SeaHyena    466

Love the new tagging mechanic so far. It forces large fleets to organize, no more disorganized fleets being rewarded for sloppy organization. Gank fleets using a fir speed ship to tag then the rest of the fleet pile into battle no longer works. Ships cannot magically appear from the horizon than appear on top of you in battle. I look forward to testing it more. :)

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Nash    243

 

20 fleets for every region. Fleets were more concentrated around capitals and freetowns before

Now they are regional and sometimes sail to nearby enemy regions. 

 

  1. For some regions 20 could be too much. But we believe that using terrain (including npc travel routes) is a feature not a bug. Don't you think?
  2. Also pull circle is large now. We dont yet know if it is ok in general and if it serves its purpose.
  3. Until grape is tuned you can just ninja board traders in front of their bots.

 

 

 

I like the pull circle, people complain its too big but I actually thing its a bit small.

For AI fleets, I think that 20 per region is good for Venezuela area  or similar area since ports are so far from each others. But for most other nations, they regions are small and compact. so yes, 20 is too much.

 

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The Red Duke    6,298

ROE is excellent, one of the best changes so far ( which is a lt given the superb upgrade ),  in my opinion and would simply do the following

 

- second area pull circle should be expanded by 50%

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Vernon Merrill    2,436

Does anyone know what the relationship between the OW and Battle Instance distances are?  I'm just asking because it would make discussing it a bit easier than percentages, I suppose.

 

Admin, is the 2nd Circle pull ring set to a specific distance, like horizon on a typical frigate masthead or something?

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Wesreidau    419

I think the OW / Battle distances are tied right in to the OW / Battle land scale. Actions near the coast line seem very, very familiar. In fact, with the new tagging mechanic, distant enemy ships on the horizon at the start of a battle and ships apparently keeping formation, it feels much, much more intuitive and real. It doesn't feel like instanced combat at all, but zooming in.

 

I am really, really enjoying tagging stragglers and fools on the OW and engaging in good, honest privateering. Coastal guns just ice the cake.

 

I've found my tagging is more aggressive since I know exactly the terms I'll face in battle. No more johnny-come-latelies ganking me. Also since OW translates directly to battle, I can make harassing tags, pinch one man off a formation... so much fun.

Edited by Wesreidau

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Chasing enemy fleets out of friendly waters and not even being able to tag them because not all ships are created equal and can't stick together.

 

Our guys ended up in 2 separate 2v5 battles and then the enemy just hid in battle screen (another broken mechanic) when they inevitably won, while the rest of us sat outside. It's shit. PvP is definitely broken now. I didn't want to admit it but I've seen it for myself and the people complaining about it are 100% right. This was definitely a step in the wrong direction. The old way was better and I beg you to revert to it until you can come up with a suitable replacement. I'm not raging, just letting you know. It's a great patch but it's pretty much pointless even trying to PvP right now.

Edited by Purple Ronnie

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Rramsha    87

Well in some ways, I think the not staying together part is suppose to be the purpose of the patch.

They are trying test a new option where large ships are not able to teleport into your battle even after you have run away and were only tagged by a small vessel.

 

This new ROE mitigates the flaw in the games instancing system by fixing the reinforcement distances to mirror the open world.

 

One option could be setting your sailing speed to knots instead of the current sail format in the open world, this way everyone can set the same speed and stick together.

 

As for AI ships, there should be a little more separation between them. However I feel that the old lazy method of attacking ships out of dock and not hunting them properly was hurting the feel of the game.

Edited by Rramsha

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Chasing enemy fleets out of friendly waters and not even being able to tag them because not all ships are created equal and can't stick together.

 

Our guys ended up in 2 separate 2v5 battles and then the enemy just hid in battle screen (another broken mechanic) when they inevitably won, while the rest of us sat outside. It's shit. PvP is definitely broken now. I didn't want to admit it but I've seen it for myself and the people complaining about it are 100% right. This was definitely a step in the wrong direction. The old way was better and I beg you to revert to it until you can come up with a suitable replacement. I'm not raging, just letting you know. It's a great patch but it's pretty much pointless even trying to PvP right now.

 

You need to sail together to fight together.  It's that simple.  People in those days didn't magically teleport into battle when they were way off in the distance, and if they were going to fight together, they held a close formation.  Battles were won and lost within distant sight/sound of help, who despite seeing the disaster weren't able to get close enough to stop it.

 

This system prevents people from coming over the horizon to help, and lets you get an immediate picture of what you'll be fighting - no surprises.  And it works both ways - benefiting attackers and defenders, but you need to develop and utilize the skill of sailing together to face a threat.  Sailing far away from your group can and should be punished.

 

With regards to battle screens, that's a different topic altogether.

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Is the new ROE, designed to bring PVP to the PVE server? Had 2 instances yesterday where initial tag was against an AI trader, but an opposing player was pulled into the combat. In one instance the initiating player lost his ship to the player who got pulled in - as it was not the norm to see another player in the battle, and he was unaware that this individual would partake in that circumstance.

 

Can see where the newly found tactic would be to follow an opposing player around, and await them to tag an AI of same Nationality, hoping to get pulled into battle,  just to grab "the other players boat" in the process, on PVE server.

 

Just making sure if this was indeed the intent overall.

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Rramsha    87

My only complaint is that all ships in the fleet should be able to set the same speed in some manner. The current way to set speed through sail states in the open world does not allow ships of different classes to sail together easily.

 

Either allow ships to hotkey "sail at the max speed of the slowest ship in fleet" or allow ships to actually set a preset speed which the ship would try to hold. The third option is offer more sail states to facilitate finding the correct speed.

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The Red Duke    6,298

I remember reading about one instance, IRL, where a french sea rover managed to attack a spanish convoy and using positioning and wind when initiating the attack against one straggler ship, bring his own ship alongside, board her and get away with the prize in plain view of the spanish convoy escort which were rendered useless due to the speed and precision of attack, position in the wind and how the spanish were spread out due to different ship speeds, trims, etc.

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Is the new ROE, designed to bring PVP to the PVE server? Had 2 instances yesterday where initial tag was against an AI trader, but an opposing player was pulled into the combat. In one instance the initiating player lost his ship to the player who got pulled in - as it was not the norm to see another player in the battle, and he was unaware that this individual would partake in that circumstance.

 

Can see where the newly found tactic would be to follow an opposing player around, and await them to tag an AI of same Nationality, hoping to get pulled into battle,  just to grab "the other players boat" in the process, on PVE server.

 

Just making sure if this was indeed the intent overall.

 

No, I think this is a bug.  Please F11 it!

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You need to sail together to fight together.  It's that simple.  People in those days didn't magically teleport into battle when they were way off in the distance, and if they were going to fight together, they held a close formation.  Battles were won and lost within distant sight/sound of help, who despite seeing the disaster weren't able to get close enough to stop it.

 

This system prevents people from coming over the horizon to help, and lets you get an immediate picture of what you'll be fighting - no surprises.  And it works both ways - benefiting attackers and defenders, but you need to develop and utilize the skill of sailing together to face a threat.  Sailing far away from your group can and should be punished.

 

With regards to battle screens, that's a different topic altogether.

 

We can't stick together AND chase the enemy unless we have almost identical ships. It just doesn't work because of the speed difference, and the new RoE simply make it worse. I get that you guys want some realism in the game, and I do too, but realism isn't always a good thing. It's making random OW PvP almost impossible to do. The only way we can get some OW PvP is if the enemy decide to stand their ground, or we somehow catch them with their pants down.

 

The French fleet we were chasing had sailed all the way to Jamaica to cause trouble, then just turned around and ran when they found it, because reasons, and we literally couldn't do anything about it. After almost an hour, we just had to let them go. It doesn't "work both ways". They all pulled 2 of our ships into battle, twice, then hid in the battle screen after. There was nothing we could do. They had a distinct advantage, and any effort to level the playing field just failed miserably.

 

We were all pretty close together, and not "over the horizon". A quick fix would be either make the pull circle much larger, or to go back to the old system. It just doesn't work right now. There's no fun in it, just frustration. I see where you're going with all of this, and it would be great if it actually worked, but it doesn't. Lots of people have tested the new RoE and I don't recall seeing a single person say that they liked the change. In fact, they're very vocal about stating the opposite. It doesn't matter how many times you try to explain it, the practical doesn't match the theoretical.

 

Almost everyone I know is just doing PvE missions and trading, on a PvP server. Yes, I know it's only day 2 after the patch. I don't expect miracles but I do expect things to change. The system doesn't work. It's not fun, and that's the whole point of playing a game. I see the logic in choosing this new mechanic but we need to find some middle ground between this and the old mechanic. We need to find a balance.

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The Red Duke    6,298

You can chase effectively with the raider wing and tag attack. The main man'owar wing will simply be on the outer circle but in good chase range for the engagement.

 

Major major major difference is that now the entire squadron will not spawn at the same tiny spot unless they are effectively in the tag circle.

 

It works both ways, in a defensive formation as much as in a attacker.

 

Battle screen is not of this discussion but still maybe they logout in BS and go for a break ? who knows...

 

My advice ? Next time try to stick together. Send out fast ships to scout and report back, keep focused and with the fleet in good order. The old fashion tag and rubber band stragglers to tag point is over. Adapt and conquer.

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