Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum
admin

New trading and crafting feedback.

Recommended Posts

I like the patch but it would be better with a ships and materials in the warehouse wipe too. Now all people have many golden ships and live oak wood and other materials to craft for 1 or 2 months.

 

I like the new vision of basic ship is not the exceptional anymore and your plan of reduce the quantity of slots in all ships. I am awaiting the answer to jodgi's question too. 3 slots for all ships?

 

One feedback I can give you is about the furnishins. Gold, silver and red wood would be a not common stuff and for some factions is the case. I think is better include the furnishins in the quality of the ships not in the type. Even quit the furnishins material and put the silver, gold and red wood in the quality requirements... or in the "paint" or the ship.

 

Even you can to make the basic ships less decorate and more simple paintings for visual in the 3D representation.

 

Sorry, I suck writing english these days.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This and some other discussions bring me to the idea that there is no need in grading the ship quality (grey/green etc). Instead there should be one set of stats for a nominal basic design and then all that differentiate ships would be the characteristics (build strength, speed, extra crew etc, )

 

 

I'm starting to be in the same mindset here. I mean a player who see a gold ship against his grey or green will always feel like they are not at "100%." While they may not be at any huge disadvantage it is just the player mindset again, of "I need the best quality ship in order to compete." So if the best quality ship is gold, if they are sailing anything else, it's less effective. Granted if we want gold ships to be the super rare and wow factor as they should be, we must understand that in some way of balancing that if 2 players with the same skills do combat, one in a grey, and one in a gold, the gold ship will always win. Is that something that is acceptable? Personally I would be fine with that, in the grand scheme of things when this new economy starts working the way it's intended, that player who owns the gold ship probably dedicated a large amount of time to acquiring the gold ship.

 

Going back to the original thought, I am in agreement that we should not have grading for ship quality. the Ship should be the basic ship and adding characteristics helps define what you do with the ship. It seems it would be easier to balance this way? I suppose it's up to the admins on whether they want ships to have quality differences or not.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really? I just checked the map for silver and gold and Britain has not a single port for either. 

 

I think what hasn't been thought out in this patch is the huge time commitment to gather resources. A few people have lauded Britain's possession of Bermuda Cedar but to get it you have a about a 5 hours sail which takes you through a hot bed of hostile nations. Sure you could build your ships there at Flatts, but then you have the same problem getting stuff there. There isn't any location where you don't have massive trips which you are quite likely to be robbed on. So a massive time sink for a very real chance of no gain. I don't know many traders who want to do 4 to 5 hour trips, and those who do usually want an arm and a leg for the resources. So far it seems that ship building has just died. 

 

Gold, Silver and Redwood are very rare, so you fundamentally cant make anything much bigger than a Cerberus for lack of Furnishings even if it is grey.

 

Horse feathers on no sliver/gold ports.

 

Britain has both a gold and silver port just east of Mort.  Grand Turk and Blondel cay I believe.  

 

The rest I agree with. I would say now is the time to start thinking about player managed AI fleets.  If having to do the sea trucker thing time sink is the problem, let us order about AI to handle that part of the job. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I cant really give a feedback for the trading/economy since i just started to do the crafting and tradeing a few weeks ago.

 

I just have a question. I still do not understand how I get the specific types of "fine" wood ?! -- where? how?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really dislike that the free ports do not get regional bonuses for crafting ships and my overall feeling on this is becoming more and more negative as I realize what is actually required to craft good ships now.

 

Currently, with the new crafting system, I need to have an outpost open to harvest wood to get the fine logs to build ships (I prefer live oak and build strength so sunbury).  Then an outpost at the free port closest to sunbury, and another free port near where I want a region specific bonus, then yet another outpost at the port where I will be constructing the ship.  This is in total 4 ports that I could potentially be using to participate in PvP with other players.

 

I do not mind needing fine logs to craft better quality ships and I understand why the devs did this, but requiring me to travel to a port just to craft a ship to get a regional bonus is not fun.  Also, I need to do much Open world traveling with trader vessels, to ship resources to a free port where I can get a region specific bonus, on top of this, I need to load up a trade ship several times and travel to the outpost where I want to get a region specific bonus, thus adding more than double the travel time just for a region specific bonus.  I am already constantly being tagged as pirates try to steal my recourse and sometimes it takes me a good hour to get away. 

 

Please include free ports in the region exclusive bonus.  If the free port boarders 2 different regions, you can make it a random choice between the 2 adjacent regions.

 

As it stands right now, crafting ships has become too burdensome with all the OW traveling required just for a trim bonus to a ship.

 

TLDR:  Too much OW traveling required and too many outpost needed to craft ships which takes ports away from me getting into the PvP action.  Solution:  Make Free ports give region exclusive bonuses to free up an outpost slot.

Edited by Ultravis
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...This is in total 4 ports that I could potentially be using to participate in PvP with other players.

It is not a big issue, but I agree. Even with shamelessly many outposts we are still hauling the stuff to freeports for shipment or directly to storage. We will still be sailing around.

We could try to make it a bit cheaper (and possible) to set up more outposts?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has the Blueprint drop chance been increased?

 

Because if not new players will have a really hard time getting BPs even with Gifted as with the current Fine wood drop rate they will be mostly stuck with making grey or maybe green ships.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Horse feathers on no sliver/gold ports.

 

Britain has both a gold and silver port just east of Mort.  Grand Turk and Blondel cay I believe.  

 

The rest I agree with. I would say now is the time to start thinking about player managed AI fleets.  If having to do the sea trucker thing time sink is the problem, let us order about AI to handle that part of the job. 

 

Checking once again, there are for Gold, 5 ports which produce it, they are owned by Pirates, Spanish, Spanish, French and Spanish. No British ports. Silver is mined in 8 ports. They are owned by Spanish, Spanish, Pirates, Spanish, Spanish, French, French and Spanish. Once again not a British port in sight. Grand turk and Blondel Cay feature on neither list so your statement is patently false unless the trading tool is lieing which I think it is not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Checking once again, there are for Gold, 5 ports which produce it, they are owned by Pirates, Spanish, Spanish, French and Spanish. No British ports. Silver is mined in 8 ports. They are owned by Spanish, Spanish, Pirates, Spanish, Spanish, French, French and Spanish. Once again not a British port in sight. Grand turk and Blondel Cay feature on neither list so your statement is patently false unless the trading tool is lieing which I think it is not.

Let me check the map again when I get home, but I was not talking about ports that currently sell the item, I was looking at the types of resource extraction points you could build.

 

I am also PvP2, so there could be differences between that and whatever world it is you live in, but the port drift should not have been too severe given the current rate of port battle transfer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let me check the map again when I get home, but I was not talking about ports that currently sell the item, I was looking at the types of resource extraction points you could build.

 

I am also PvP2, so there could be differences between that and whatever world it is you live in, but the port drift should not have been too severe given the current rate of port battle transfer.

 

I am talking about ports where you can produce those items. I would assume the ports which produce would be consistent across servers though ownership might vary.

 

I found hundreds of furnishings in a random port today, fyi.

 

Really? Pray tell where exactly?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You don't need fine woods to make any ship. You need it to craft exceptional ships. Gray common ships can be crafted with old resources.

In fact getting resources for fir and oak ships have never been easier as every region has them and you get them with minimal travel. But exceptional ships should become rare. It was the plan.

Since the patch I have still to buy ANY fine wood of any type.  I have used 3 days worth of labor hours to harvest Oak, Fir and Lignum Vitae, and have managed to get 27 Fine Fir, and about the same for Fine Oak...

At this pace I'm certain I will NEVER sell any fine wood I harvest.  

 

I have everything in place, but still need 193 Fine Fir to build another Excellent Indiaman.  And to top it off, it's by far a certainty that the Indiaman will actually turn out to be of Excellent quality.

I'm sorry if this looks like a rant, but it's really not.  It's a suggestion that you either increase the amount of Fine Wood, or remove it altogether, as the RNG on creating Excellent ships is already making them rear.

 

Have a look at the Ship Market in Kingston?  No new ships since the patch, so the PvE server is becoming pointless.  The prices of Fine woods will surpass the ship prices like this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really? Pray tell where exactly?

Sorry, don't remember exactly. But it was Samana, Higuey, Guayama, Ponce or Vieques.

Point is, you might have that over where you are too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since the patch I have still to buy ANY fine wood of any type.  I have used 3 days worth of labor hours to harvest Oak, Fir and Lignum Vitae, and have managed to get 27 Fine Fir, and about the same for Fine Oak...

At this pace I'm certain I will NEVER sell any fine wood I harvest.  

 

I have everything in place, but still need 193 Fine Fir to build another Excellent Indiaman.  And to top it off, it's by far a certainty that the Indiaman will actually turn out to be of Excellent quality.

I'm sorry if this looks like a rant, but it's really not.  It's a suggestion that you either increase the amount of Fine Wood, or remove it altogether, as the RNG on creating Excellent ships is already making them rear.

 

Have a look at the Ship Market in Kingston?  No new ships since the patch, so the PvE server is becoming pointless.  The prices of Fine woods will surpass the ship prices like this.

 

I thought there was no RNG on crafting any more, that's why a bunch of previously marked exceptional dropped in quality, because exceptional is ALWAYS 3/5.

 

Or did I understand the patch notes wrong?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Checking once again, there are for Gold, 5 ports which produce it, they are owned by Pirates, Spanish, Spanish, French and Spanish. No British ports. Silver is mined in 8 ports. They are owned by Spanish, Spanish, Pirates, Spanish, Spanish, French, French and Spanish. Once again not a British port in sight. Grand turk and Blondel Cay feature on neither list so your statement is patently false unless the trading tool is lieing which I think it is not.

Well it seems I owe you an apology.  When I first logged in to the changes, I checked all the tool tip port mouse overs I had access to, looking for silver and gold specifically.  

 

Now after sailing to them, I see that those tool tips were in error.  Probably one of the reasons they pulled them.

 

I do however think the solution is not to just give everybody access to everything, but to change the buy/sell behavior at free ports to make them viable cross nation trading hubs, and dangerous places for all nationalities.  A place you can always go to sell for a profit if you manufacture a good, and a place you can always go to buy things other people have sold.  

 

But to do that, they need to get away from the terribly simplistic approach to pricing they have set up, and actually program reasonable buy/sell market limitations, as well as fix the bugs that let player bids close down the market on a product.

 

One way to do that is to have all free ports buy at 2-3X manufacture cost of all items, and then sell those items at +30% of what the port paid for them.  Right now the margins are way to severe.

 

But really they should go back to the basics, and figure out what they want a hold shipped to be worth, and what they want a labor hour to be worth, and then starting from there, build up and customize each products place in the world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After some careful thinking, I think that the major problem, the excessive sailing and crafting problems, might be solved by implementing two things:

 

1. allow deliveries between any and all free ports without the need for a player to have an outpost there - this way players can use extra outposts for pvp bases, it will cut on the sailing time because players will be able to send materials from any free town, but at the same time developers will get what they want - more players sailing all over the map because people will still have to fight for rare resources and will still have to sail to the port that has needed resources and then to free town and then again from nearest outpost to the destination free town to pick up goods.

This way players will be able to craft ships a bit more easily because it will remove hours of boring sailing but will keep the difficulty of gathering all the materials.

 

2. allow ships in fleet to carry cargo - this way we also cut down on the number of sailing time and trips needed to get the resources, players will be able to make their own protected traders that will make them a bit more secure from solo gankers but still a viable target to better more experienced players or organised gankers.

 

Also, players in every nation should have a trading hub. With the ability to craft ships in any port coupled with new resource distribution and scarcity comes a problem. Developers want players to trade, but where? Any player can have his base of operations in any port. Even in regions with better bonuses where there is statistically greater chance of more players crafting ships, I would have to be lucky to either run into the port where some players needs the mats I carry or lucky to be in the port where another player that sells the stuff I need chances to come.

 

Damn, i want this game to work in a way i don't have to quit my job or neglect and lose my gf just to have some fun.

 

EDIT: typos

Edited by Todbringer
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought there was no RNG on crafting any more, that's why a bunch of previously marked exceptional dropped in quality, because exceptional is ALWAYS 3/5.

 

Or did I understand the patch notes wrong?

 

RNG is still there with how many slots you get. This is a passing concern because according to admin they will change the slot system to max three (dunno about basic->excep in that regard yet). This change will come with a full ship (and inventory?) wipe, so prolly not in a while still.

 

The patch notes rng comment relates to us being able to pick between all trims for the first slot, then the second slot is decided by where you craft.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really like the new trading/ crafting/ production system.
It makes crafting less dependent on luck in terms of the outcome, but there is one big issue that grinds my gears:
"Fine" Ressources.

Now it is lucky that you get enough "fine ressources" to build a ship of higher quality out of your production buildings as I don't see these rare ressources being traded much due to their rarerity.
That's why I propose the following:
"Fine"-Ressources become craftable, but for an expensive price in the original ressource: Something along 100 Oak-Log to 1 Fine-Oak (which is currently half a Day-Production).
This would also raise the market value of some of the most important ressources available.

 

Now, I understand the motivation to make exceptional ships far more rare (which is fine), the problem is just another one:
If you want to have e.g. "Build Strength" you need Fine-Oak...

 

But the biggest problem is now Blue-Prints: The Drop-Chance for a grey ship is far lower than for an exceptional ship.
This causes drops of BPs getting even more rare due to the fact that building exceptional ships is getting rarer which makes new players suffer far more.

Thus the BP-system should be reworked. An easy solution could be to raise the chance to drop BPs on "grey"-ships but a deeper change is actually needed IMO.
E.G. Reverse Engineering. BPs are not dropped anymore but a player has to deconstruct a certain amount of ships of that kind to get the BP.
Gifted would reduce the amount of ships needed and ships that should be far more rare (Heavy Rattle, L'Ocean,...) would need more times a ship is deconstructed.
This would for example mean: Deconstruct 5x the Rattlesnake and you get the BP for the Rattlesnake.

The thing is: It shouldn't be hard to get the BPs (except for some special ships) but the crafting should be the problem.

 

The second thing I would really like to see is actually just a minor thing:
Please, when using the map trading tool and someone is searching for a city, show the A/P/C line for that harbor too.
Currently you would have to switch to the ressource page and search for the harbor to get that information which is pretty ugly to be frankly.

sincerely,
Thonar

€: Made some € and implemented the BP-topic

Edited by Thonar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's why I propose the following:

"Fine"-Ressources become craftable, but for an expensive price in the original ressource: Something along 100 Oak-Log to 1 Fine-Oak (which is currently half a Day-Production).

This would also raise the market value of some of the most important ressources available.

 

But the biggest problem is now Blue-Prints: The Drop-Chance for a grey ship is far lower than for an exceptional ship.

This causes drops of BPs getting even more rare due to the fact that building exceptional ships is getting rarer which makes new players suffer far more.

Thus the BP-system should be reworked. 

True!  I agree that we should be able to craft Fine Wood in this manner, using "normal" logs to produce Fine Logs, which would increase the willingness to trade.

As it is now, I'm only logging on to harvest logs, then logging off.  I won't be bothered trading until I have enough fine wood to produce an excellent ship.  This means about 2 weeks of harvesting, and no trading at all.  I went from playing at least an hour every day before the patch, to playing 10 minutes every day after the patch.

 

I also agree to the blueprint issue.  I currently have everything up to 3rd Rate unlocked, so it doesn't affect me that much, but if I had to start from scratch I would leave the game altogether.  I guess the same goes if I switch servers (from PvE to PvP), as the PvE server is dying after the patch (unless the current state of affairs is a "market shock" after last patch).

 

The current price I would charge for anything above "default quality" would be (at least) in the 8-figures per ship, as it takes several weeks to produce it.  I'm not going to waste precious Fine Wood to craft high quality ships for sale until I have the best class 1 ship available.  That will probably be in a few years time.  This might be ok for the real world, but not for a game.  

I'm guessing this patch leads to a self defeating economy (as it looks to me right now on the PvE server).

 

Another issue is that the wars (again, on the PvE server) lasts for 16 days (currently) which will mean certain products are unavailable for more than 2 weeks.  Unless port battles become available on the PvE server, this means that some resources will be even more rare.

Edited by TylerD75
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep, unfortunately a lot of this patch could hurt casual players. :(

For me

-Fewer AI traders to hit for the fun of it and the few found are harder to hit bc of the pull circle pulling in fleets.

-Seemingly no possibility to craft ships

For my friends who just pop in to battle for an hour here or there

-Less PVP to be found

I will still play as I love this game but I know some have quit, hopefully they will come back.

Agree with all of the above except maybe the less PvP comment. KPR is constantly being harassed by hostile ships/fleets. Isn't it the same at other National capital ports? Even the casual player shouldn't have to wait long for something to go after. They may just have to group up with others to go after a marauding fleet.

 

My bugaboo is that NPC smugglers seem to be extinct. Uncommon is one thing, completely absent is another. Please boost the probabilities of spawning them again.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. Player crafted ship's have to have better stats or options than gray basic ship's or there is no incentive to start crafting ships

2. More availability of Fine materials, either through better percentage of farming drops, or AI shop restocking, or crafting, or all three. It's a game, not a lifestyle. If I wanted the lifestyle,,, oh yeah. If there were any contraband runners anymore I'd say have them haul fine stuff as well. There is simply not enough money in the game to let me perpetually harvest regular lumber to get fine lumber, and no current incentive to build gray ships with regular lumber (wasting all the other resources).

3. I've always thought that the number of notes should be tied to the size of the vessel. An exceptional frigate should require at least one less note than an exceptional connie. You should tie that to Hit-points in lieu of Displacement figures.

4. More slots not less. Take it from me, customization is not even a word, its a way of life. No boat goes out without all sorts of custom stuff. From crew lockers to deck winches to steering controls to you can just keep going. If you are going to slacken the effect of upgrades then there is no reason not to offer more slots for custom. If you are going to do more with officers then maybe it doesn't matter, but I like to tinker.

5. Persistent National and Clan Bulletin Board System  <<  maybe even for individual ports. For so many reasons

6. # of Nation Players online/ Total # Nation Players         Also for so many reasons  (unless this becomes an Alt exploit)

7. Plans for sale? Not the whole catalog certainly or at any point, but once and a while?

8. I want more outpost/building/dockage slots, don't know if I deserve them, but I been a good boy (lol)

9. Want my tool tips on the map back.

 

I see a little of where the patch is leading, and after a few days as my small stock of fine Oak grows it's maybe not as bad as all that, but needs a lot of adjusting and adding. The fleets are out of control, although I've triggered some fun blasts and been pulled into a couple of fun blasts, nothing like driving a privateer raiding a brig when an enemy ingermanland turns the corner followed by enough SOL's to replay Trafalgar. Crafting is pretty psychotic at the moment, I'm hauling enough goods around to build a Victory, luckily one of my clan built a test cutter or two to figure things out.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

KPR is constantly being harassed by hostile ships/fleets. Isn't it the same at other National capital ports?

KPR is unique in that way. We all know you are the most populated faction, so we come in droves PVP dehydrated. ;)

My bugaboo is that NPC smugglers seem to be extinct. Uncommon is one thing, completely absent is another. Please boost the probabilities of spawning them again.

*wink* I miss them too. I used them for ship transfer, mostly to kill the need to go there and back to haul resources. With smugglers I only needed to tag an NPC wait 2 min, send ship and go haul stuff home. I think this is why they aren't around anymore.

Maybe you really did tag little smugglers for... whatever reasons? But if you miss the ability to send ships we should make the discussion about that, I'm with you on that. I mean why have empty player traders on the OW?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see a little of where the patch is leading, and after a few days as my small stock of fine Oak grows it's maybe not as bad as all that,

 

You might be right there. I did some research and now producing reasonably widely available Teak, Oak, and Fir (and corresponding fine woods). That combo gives possibility to build Teak-speed, oak-planking, oak-speed, teak/oak-build strength combo's, which is useful for OW-oriented 5th, 4th, 3rd and 2nd rate builts. Perhaps, people should relax and not be so impatient to get all/most of their ships in all those fancy wood types. 

Edited by Stilgar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well.. My cobber of thought..

1) Crafting and the economy:

a) weight of items: the multiplication of items weight is regrettable for more reasons than one. First off it's utterly unrealistic and I think it's about time we introduced the metric system to the game and got just a bit more nuance to the economy. The only perceivable intention behind item weights seem to be a desire to make ppl make many longer journeys with cargo that yields a low profit margin and cripples the ability to craft much of anything. The motivation behind this desire seems to me atleast to come from devs vocal ambitions to promote PvP. I'm concerned this will have the opposite effect as the scarcity of traders prepatch was due to an extremely low player retention and this is basically an attempt to force trade wars between a dwindling population of players.

B) Ressources: The scarcity of resources like silver, gold, red wood and other materials required in crafting makes this both tedious and uninteresting. It's becoming harder and harder for new players to start up in the game and this goes for all aspects in game. The desire to make some ship qualities scarcer is a loosing battle.. Players want the best ships available and if the best isn't available they'll either stay at home ports till they get them or quit the game perceiving the 'other guy' to have an advantage over them (wether real or not). It's human nature and just like the events it seems the devs has a very poor grasp of their playerbase.

c) delivery missions: too little rewards compared to the risk taken. I'm trading and finding it enjoying but I just can't be bothered with the trade missions as they typically requires a mindless grind for an unfulfilling reward.

d) regional bonuses: should be scrapped in their current form and made dependent on resources used instead. Make regions produce certain resources for crafting will both promote smuggling (which is atm only useful for raiders that cap a trader and then go to the nearest port to sell the goods - it has nothing to do with smuggling), promote PvP and make ships more diversified and rare.

Combat mechanics:

a) Well.... I never thought I'd say it, but I like the instant closing of the battleinstance when OW tagging..

B) Dislikes the number of AI fleets and definitely thinks the AI fleets are WAY overpowered.. I've seen AI battle fleets of sizes never used for patrols. They shouldn't be pulled in from the enlarged battlecircle either.

c) nerfing the carros were needed and has created more viable alternate tactics. They are still very powerful, but only if u get close enough.

d) Likes the crewloses. Makes battles both more intense, more realistic and above all crewloses are now a factor that has to be considered when either continuing an engagement or breaking off. The crew costs could be reduced however to make combat somewhat profitable again (atm it's a win-lose tie).

e) dislikes that bs cloaking is still a feature and not an exploit.

f) DISLIKES the utter lack of direction in this game. The devs has vocalized a desire for increased PvP, comparing the battleratio between PvE and PvP with that of eve (which apparently becomes the benchmark for some reason). Yet they make PvP more costly, both in terms of craftable ships and in terms of uncraftable (one dura) ships. This will have the opposite effect as ppl has to put more effort into the crafting of the ships and that makes them more cautious of PvP engagements where they can't decide the outcome as they can in PvE.. I don't mind the increased expenditure in ship costs, and I don't mind the desire for an increased PvP but there won't be both. One or the other and I'd like it if the devs made a clear choice. This staggering between the two like a high school girl trying to decide wether she should go for the jock or the sensitive nerd is getting tiresome.

g) I dislike the fact that this game gets harder and harder to start up in for new players. Excessive grinds, broken rookie missions (as in cutters coming up against snows and brigs in midshipman lvl missions) and a playerbase that has little understanding for the problems for newcomers in the combat missions, berating them on forums as well as ingame with little to no moderation doesn't make this game appealing to newcomers and may go some way to explain the difficulty in keeping players. Either that or the game is just bad and were all the stubborn fools that won't see the painting on the walls (which I refuse to accept).

Diplomacy:

I dislike the fact that alliances didn't get reset at the start of the patch but in time it won't matter.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×