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New trading and crafting feedback.

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we fixed that

not in the patch notes

Grey upgrades give a small positive NEVER a negative now.

First, I have not made a ship since the update so I may be wrong. Apologies if that's the case.

This is a step in the right direction but still doesn't seem as grey ships are worth making when there will probably be only 0-1 permanent and 1-2 regular upgrade slots. As resources are rare now, It's so much easier to just find a green one from an NPC seller, at least for frigates, or go cap one and put cheap mods on it. The new Econ has converted me to being ok using 1 dur ships bc, as I rely on smuggler to get mats, I really don't feel I can make a ship that's worth the effort anymore.

TL:DR maybe allow alll crafted ships, no matter the class, have 2/3 perm and 4/5 regular outfitting slots.

Edited by Anne Wildcat

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I like the direction of the new patch yet I think it's pushing this game to far into hardcore/group players land.

 

First off, there shouldnt be a situation where only 1 port for the whole map produces 1 resource type. Especially if it's 2 hours away sail from the nearest land. The resource distribution is bad. People who would be interesting with crafting will have to sail during off peak times trying to gather what they need with smuggler flag ( and that will take huge amount of time ). If it's going to stay like that we need about 4-5 more OP's and bigger warehouses.

 

Current situation with fine woods will make people build only wood production. At some point it will settle probably but still those who have exclusive acces to LO or Bermuda cyder will just build 5 farms. Fine wood obtaining ways is really bad when joined with the fact how rare are those 2 woods.

 

Crafting ships will be taking huge amount of time. Sailing only can take whole day. Sending mats through free towns is again a lot of time ( make delievery time shorter? ). Ok, meake exceptional or mastercraft ships hard to build. Keep the mats as they are now but it should be easier to build common or fine ships than it is now. Blueprint learning would be terribly hard if not gifted perk, still is when it comes to getting resources to craft ship. Whole BP system needs to be changed.

Regional bonues are fun. Would be fun to craft in enemy port after succesfully smuggled ship parts just to get needed bonus :) ( shame that it would probably be used some way as exploit).

 

Crafting mods needs to be adjusted. Mats needed lowered.

 

Please let us learn 1 dura Indefatigable and Endymion BP for the purpose of 1 dura testing. Also let us sale 1 dura ships at the auctions ( maybe in separate 1 dura category or with huge red letter warning).

 

Summary. I feel like atm crafting and trading is rewarded better than it used to be. I would say that it's also more fun with smuggling and how hard it is but the price you pay is huge amount of time lost. Logistics you have to do trying to craft ship with wanted regional bonus is immense. Also I feel that the game is shifting even more towards group playing which is all right as its MMO but still the game shouldnt be that hard/time consuming for solo players.

Edited by Borch
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Regional bonues are fun. Would be fun to craft in enemy port after succesfully smuggled ship parts just to get needed bonus :) ( shame that it would probably be used some way as exploit)

.

Agree with everything you said. Especially agree with this. However you cannot take warships out of enemy ports :(

Maybe in the future new ships should be in the form of deeds you can take as cargo to a friendly port and redeem? Just a suggestion.

And oh gosh, after the wipe if bps have to be relearned, I don't think I will even try to learn bps.

Edited by Anne Wildcat
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I just love the new patch, supposedly because I only play PvE and like to spend most of my game time trading. I do occasionally partake in battles, but prefer to take on lone contraband traders of all nations except British. Lone contraband traders are not as common now, since the new patch. Most of the AI sailing around now are now made up of very large fleets.

 

I like the new trader tools and the variety of new consumables that can now be traded. The new Delivery Missions are the best in my opinion, as this now serves a purpose for trading. Not only does it allow for spreading goods around different areas of the map, but it gives the player a chance to make some decent gold and also increase rank XP and also crfting XP for each mission accomplished.

 

Ok, many people would much prefer to earn their gold and XP from doing Battle Missions and this is the main intention of the game, which is good, but now you can mix a bit of both, trading and fighting, where as before the patch, you only had battle Missions as an option.

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I like the direction of the new patch yet I think it's pushing this game to far into hardcore/group players land.

 

First off, there shouldnt be a situation where only 1 port for the whole map produces 1 resource type. Especially if it's 2 hours away sail from the nearest land. The resource distribution is bad. People who would be interesting with crafting will have to sail during off peak times trying to gather what they need with smuggler flag ( and that will take huge amount of time ). If it's going to stay like that we need about 4-5 more OP's and bigger warehouses.

 

Current situation with fine woods will make people build only wood production. At some point it will settle probably but still those who have exclusive acces to LO or Bermuda cyder will just build 5 farms. Fine wood obtaining ways is really bad when joined with the fact how rare are those 2 woods.

 

Crafting ships will be taking huge amount of time. Sailing only can take whole day. Sending mats through free towns is again a lot of time ( make delievery time shorter? ). Ok, meake exceptional or mastercraft ships hard to build. Keep the mats as they are now but it should be easier to build common or fine ships than it is now. Blueprint learning would be terribly hard if not gifted perk, still is when it comes to getting resources to craft ship. Whole BP system needs to be changed.

Regional bonues are fun. Would be fun to craft in enemy port after succesfully smuggled ship parts just to get needed bonus :) ( shame that it would probably be used some way as exploit).

 

Crafting mods needs to be adjusted. Mats needed lowered.

 

Please let us learn 1 dura Indefatigable and Endymion BP for the purpose of 1 dura testing. Also let us sale 1 dura ships at the auctions ( maybe in separate 1 dura category or with huge red letter warning).

 

Summary. I feel like atm crafting and trading is rewarded better than it used to be. I would say that it's also more fun with smuggling and how hard it is but the price you pay is huge amount of time lost. Logistics you have to do trying to craft ship with wanted regional bonus is immense. Also I feel that the game is shifting even more towards group playing which is all right as its MMO but still the game shouldnt be that hard/time consuming for solo players.

Good post, agreeing here in particular regarding the resource distribution.

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I got that. All I say is lower the barrier for now to encourage players to start building lower level ships. I am lvl 50 crafter and sit on a pile of golden ships, which should be enough for months (I play just 4-6 hrs a week). I do not mind gathering resources and want to experiment with new wood types and bonuses, but if it is too much trouble to build even a fine ship, I'll just sit back and wait as far as any economic activity is concerned.

I am and do exactly like you.

 

We've moved in the right direction and made mods less important, but they're still there and golden ships can still mount 6-8 compared to 2-3 on basic ships. A basic ship user has to pick one thing his ship can do while the golden cowboy is able to hedge his bets between speed, boarding, repair and dps . It's just a practical detail that it takes weeks of resource farming to build a golden ship now, making golden ones hard to get doesn't make normal ships any better.

 

The only meaningful difference with this system is that even a long time from now very few golden ships will have trickled down to casual players. We will still be fully stacked with golden ships.

 

God help the casuals.

 

This system is very good for someone like me but I wish it wasn't so.

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I am and do exactly like you.

 

We've moved in the right direction and made mods less important, but they're still there and golden ships can still mount 6-8 compared to 2-3 on basic ships. A basic ship user has to pick one thing his ship can do while the golden cowboy is able to hedge his bets between speed, boarding, repair and dps . It's just a practical detail that it takes weeks of resource farming to build a golden ship now, making golden ones hard to get doesn't make normal ships any better.

 

 

 

eventually they will have 3 slots only for upgrades.

We did cut the upgrade slots because it would require full ship wipe - with all vessels removed from the game.

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eventually they will have 3 slots only for upgrades.

We did cut the upgrade slots because it would require full ship wipe - with all vessels removed from the game.

 

Is it not time to release all upgrades for crafting then, so you can balance the ones we have in the game? saying that I will be sad to see the current upgrades system go, I have grown rather fond of it.

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[Rant Mode On] This not concerning anything new with the patch, but it's a headache that's still there...

For the life of me I do not understand why a lowball player contract in a Port 'Sell' slot overrides the higher native port price. Multiple times I have checked the trader tool (yes I know it's only updated once each day immediately after maintenance and isn't real time), saw a profitable price, sailed for 15-20 minutes real time only to find some doof has a contract there offering half (or less) what the port would pay. AGH!!!!

[Rant Mode Off]

 

Okay - I understand the goal is to make the economy be player driven. But this was, and still is crazy.

 

I thought one of the goals of this patch was to encourage leaving the 'safe' zones. Well this is seriously affecting my willingness to chance dangerous waters in search of money. It used to be bad enough just to waste 5-10 minutes sailing in friendly waters for this nonsense. But now a longer trip through dangerous territory? Nuh uh!

 

In the interests of not just complaining, may I suggest that a player contract that offers less to buy goods from a trader than the current price must be within 5-10% of whatever the existing price is? This will also be a big step towards stopping the practice of locking a port with contracts offering '1'.

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God help the casuals.

Yep, unfortunately a lot of this patch could hurt casual players. :(

For me

-Fewer AI traders to hit for the fun of it and the few found are harder to hit bc of the pull circle pulling in fleets.

-Seemingly no possibility to craft ships

For my friends who just pop in to battle for an hour here or there

-Less PVP to be found

I will still play as I love this game but I know some have quit, hopefully they will come back.

Edited by Anne Wildcat
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I am fascinated by the implications of this patch - it is very hard to build anything requiring furnishings, which limits it to, if memory serves, Cerberus's and smaller.

I wish this patch had come with a wipe, as that crafting is so radically different that it has HUGE implications for conquest. Too many people have too many ships and resources stockpiled to really test this new economy, myself included.

I think this patch sharply limits ships of the line (as they should be). But too many of them already exist.

I hope land in port battles comes with an asset wipe to more fully test the new conquest.

That said, Tommy Shelby mentioned yesterday that wood should perhaps come in fine, mastercraft, and exceptional, so you see fine, mastercraft, and exceptional ships. With just "fine wood" as we have it, players are likely to either craft basic ships, or exceptional, with nothing in between.

Another player pointed out that it makes little sense to craft basic ships, as it costs more to build one than it does to buy from an NPC.

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Bulwyf, dedicated Crafters are way more dependent on dedicated Traders now, and vice versa. Plus Britain has conquered a region with Silver just south of Jamaica.

 

The Silver must flow. :)

 

Really? I just checked the map for silver and gold and Britain has not a single port for either. 

 

I think what hasn't been thought out in this patch is the huge time commitment to gather resources. A few people have lauded Britain's possession of Bermuda Cedar but to get it you have a about a 5 hours sail which takes you through a hot bed of hostile nations. Sure you could build your ships there at Flatts, but then you have the same problem getting stuff there. There isn't any location where you don't have massive trips which you are quite likely to be robbed on. So a massive time sink for a very real chance of no gain. I don't know many traders who want to do 4 to 5 hour trips, and those who do usually want an arm and a leg for the resources. So far it seems that ship building has just died. 

 

Gold, Silver and Redwood are very rare, so you fundamentally cant make anything much bigger than a Cerberus for lack of Furnishings even if it is grey.

Edited by Bulwyf
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The ship market is dead with this patch, no point in crafting grey ship, AI already sell those, and capped ship are better....On the market gold ship sell for millions: 10m for a vic in FR...(heard its even worse elsewhere) and that just after the patch. Today Fort Royal had 2 player made ships for sale: 2 crappy navybrig...nothing else....all other ships were sold by the AI. What's the point of crafting nowodays?

 

I'm a level 50 with nothing to craft ( not enough fine wood) and nothing to sell (gold ships are too valuable to sell and grey ship cost more to produce than to sell)....

 

not even speaking of the fact if i want to craft a speed ship i have to ferry all my ressources to one side of the map and to the other side for hull...with 8 outposts its useless, takes ages and is boring.

Edited by Tenakha Kan
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This and some other discussions bring me to the idea that there is no need in grading the ship quality (grey/green etc). Instead there should be one set of stats for a nominal basic design and then all that differentiate ships would be the characteristics (build strength, speed, extra crew etc, )

 

Scrap perma upgrades all together and add a couple of additional characteristics slots (not like now, just one+regional bonus, but like 3 in total). All those rare/regional resources (and notes?) should be required for adding those characteristics (just as it is now!). You want a ship with improved characteristics, go and sail around, but you'd do good in a basic one.

 

Common upgrade slots could still stay, but those should be related exclusively/mostly to crew (gunnery/boarding/sailing etc), also to avoid stacking of technical bonuses.

 

Crafting will be fun, for players will be interested in ships with different set of characteristics, but there will be no shortage of ships and reservations in jumping into PvP, for basic ship will be just good enough.

Edited by Stilgar
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Not impressed with the loss of my Gold ships that cost me a LOT to get only to have them reduced to MC vessels!I am NOT going to fanny about building what i already had.This patch has killed my enthusiasm for NA.Now on the backburner till it gets sorted!

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This and some other discussions bring me to the idea that there is no need in grading the ship quality (grey/green etc). Instead there should be one set of stats for a nominal basic design and then all that differentiate ships would be the characteristics (build strength, speed, extra crew etc, )

 

So much this!

 

One set of quality, diff comes from choice of wood, composition of the crew, type of cannons and skill of the captain. Nothing more.

Edited by Tenakha Kan
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eventually they will have 3 slots only for upgrades.

We did cut the upgrade slots because it would require full ship wipe - with all vessels removed from the game.

Ah, that will help. So 1 slot for basic ships and 3 slots for golden or 3 for all?

 

Not impressed with the loss of my Gold ships that cost me a LOT to get only to have them reduced to MC vessels!

It's still the same ships with a pretty pink label instead of golden, how can that matter that much to you?

 

...for basic ship will be just good enough.

I'm with you but the trick is to get people to fight over stuff when basic ships really are good enough. It seems that loss mechanic and eco based PVP aversion is a tough nut to crack.

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I think what hasn't been thought out in this patch is the huge time commitment to gather resources. A few people have lauded Britain's possession of Bermuda Cedar but to get it you have a about a 5 hours sail which takes you through a hot bed of hostile nations. Sure you could build your ships there at Flatts, but then you have the same problem getting stuff there. There isn't any location where you don't have massive trips which you are quite likely to be robbed on. So a massive time sink for a very real chance of no gain. I don't know many traders who want to do 4 to 5 hour trips, and those who do usually want an arm and a leg for the resources. So far it seems that ship building has just died. 

 

Gold, Silver and Redwood are very rare, so you fundamentally cant make anything much bigger than a Cerberus for lack of Furnishings even if it is grey.

 

It's not that bad. You have almost everything you need to build ships in Bermuda. You need red wood, silver and gold and even those you can send to nearest freeport and sail from there (1.5 or 2 hours). Or you can ask someone else to move your cargo. I'm sure there will be regular convoys to Bermuda when the new economy stabilizes, unless the brits can't defend Bermuda.

 

On the other hand, I'm not so sure that cedar is worth the trouble. You can use fir for fast ships. It's not as good as cedar, but it has the same speed bonus.

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I wish this patch had come with a wipe, as that crafting is so radically different that it has HUGE implications for conquest. Too many people have too many ships and resources stockpiled to really test this new economy

+1.

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We need some form of the mouse-over port resource UI back.

 

The trader's tool is of course very powerful, but only for one... resource... at... a... time...

 

...

 

...

 

...

 

It takes ages to slowly search and sort for the core set of shipbuilding resources. Mousing over every port in a region takes mere seconds.

 

 

With the current system we need to actually get pen and paper to take notes on good crafting regions and trade routes. Before, the map fed this information to us at a glance.

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[Rant Mode On] This not concerning anything new with the patch, but it's a headache that's still there...

For the life of me I do not understand why a lowball player contract in a Port 'Sell' slot overrides the higher native port price. Multiple times I have checked the trader tool (yes I know it's only updated once each day immediately after maintenance and isn't real time), saw a profitable price, sailed for 15-20 minutes real time only to find some doof has a contract there offering half (or less) what the port would pay. AGH!!!!

[Rant Mode Off]

 

Okay - I understand the goal is to make the economy be player driven. But this was, and still is crazy.

 

I thought one of the goals of this patch was to encourage leaving the 'safe' zones. Well this is seriously affecting my willingness to chance dangerous waters in search of money. It used to be bad enough just to waste 5-10 minutes sailing in friendly waters for this nonsense. But now a longer trip through dangerous territory? Nuh uh!

 

In the interests of not just complaining, may I suggest that a player contract that offers less to buy goods from a trader than the current price must be within 5-10% of whatever the existing price is? This will also be a big step towards stopping the practice of locking a port with contracts offering '1'.

 

good points

we will make sure only profitable can generate delivery missions

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I forgot one thing I have an issue with in this patch.

 

Why did you remove the ability to place medkits on contract for sale in ports?

 

That is something that you would figure would be a trade commodity but yet we cant place them on contract.  

 

bug

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I am fascinated by the implications of this patch - it is very hard to build anything requiring furnishings, which limits it to, if memory serves, Cerberus's and smaller.

I wish this patch had come with a wipe, as that crafting is so radically different that it has HUGE implications for conquest. Too many people have too many ships and resources stockpiled to really test this new economy, myself included.

I think this patch sharply limits ships of the line (as they should be). But too many of them already exist.

I hope land in port battles comes with an asset wipe to more fully test the new conquest.

That said, Tommy Shelby mentioned yesterday that wood should perhaps come in fine, mastercraft, and exceptional, so you see fine, mastercraft, and exceptional ships. With just "fine wood" as we have it, players are likely to either craft basic ships, or exceptional, with nothing in between.

Another player pointed out that it makes little sense to craft basic ships, as it costs more to build one than it does to buy from an NPC.

 

 

It's really not that hard to test.  If your stock piles are going down, and you have having trouble replacing them, it's working.

 

Since we can build in any port, seal off your main resource outpost and simply try building elsewhere without moving your own product.

 

No need for an infuriating wipe. If you want to help with testing, just make your own test cases.

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I think you vastly underestimate how deep some pockets are. Further, a lot of the testing needs to be global. How quickly can a nation build a first rate? How many can be readily produced? How does this impact conquest?

These are questions that are hard to answer without a wipe, as many people have many of the important resources stockpiled, and many people have many first rates sitting in dock ready for use.

I don't think the attrition rate will be fast enough for a proper test.

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I really dislike this patch, which is sad because i was really looking forward to it.

 

With new resource spread and weight increase I would have to sail for hours transporting goods just to craft one ship.

 

I think developers should realize that people have real lives and they can't spend five hours each day just sailing around in OW transporting stuff to be able to craft one ship. It's boring and it's a waste of time. 

 

Tbh,I logged after the patch came all eager to get started, saw that I would have to sail for hours from Habana to another region and back again over and over again just to transport goods to craft a ship, sail for 2 hours one way to get some other stuff I need, multiplied it with the number of ships I would have to craft to skill up and I gave up.

 

Then I saw that to transport stuff from Mantua that would usually take me 2 trips (30 minutes each - one way), now I have to make 5-6 trips.

 

Basically, if I want to log on for a quick play and do something constructive and meaningful, there is nothing to do. I used to log on and do a quick sail with needed resources or do some quick crafting. There are no more quick sails with resources and crafting has become organisational and logistical nightmare with endless sailing.

 

So, after trying yesterday for the final time to force myself to try and transport enough goods to craft a ship in a non-capital region, I finally said "screw that", logged off and decided to use those countless hours of my life that i would've spent endlessly sailing on something useful.

 

This game has become too big of a time sink with this patch. It's entertainment to time spent ratio has become negative. There are casual players out there that don't have that much time but would still like to see some progress and get some nice stuff int he game too.

 

Hope they fix it on release so I can come and play again.

 

EDIT: some typos and added some text

Edited by Todbringer
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