How to shoot w. bomb ketches

[BungeeLemming]

Since we will get bomb ketches in the next coming builds I think we need some sort of real life anchoring.

Bomb Ketches NEVER fired on the move.

The crew drops the anchor, puts a spring on the cable and turns the ship by loosening or hauling some inches/foot inboard.

Thats how you did the directional aim.

 

Next there is range.

ofc. you can change the mortar's elevation but thats not what happened back in the days.

The ship's captain or master gunner has his tables showing the range at a certain elevation and POWDER CHARGE.

That means you keep the mortar at a certain angle (45° most likely) and adjust the ammount of powder you fill into the chamber.

 

Then the fuse:

You have to cut her according to the flight time. Again, there are tables showing you the flight times for certain gun-configurations.

And last but not least the firing command:

You have two seperate men with two glimming fuses. First light up the bomb and secondly the mortar itself.

 

 

why do I post this? Because we get this kind of ships in the future.

And we do not have any kind of anchoring maneuvers to provide accurate historical shooting with a bomb ketch.

 

My suggestions here are:

1)

give us the possibility to perform real life anchor maneuvers. Once thats done the spring needs some preparation time. Also we get completely different turning characteristics. First its faster (stationary) and second we turn around another center.

 

2)

do not introduce the mortar shooting like we have the cannons now.

make fix numbers with the powder charge. Maybe introduce a bar wich represents the amount of powder we fill into the mortar. Keep it fixed until we change it manually (mousewheel/keyboard e.g).

After each shot we have to observe the ball and according to the impact we then change the powdercharge.

Once we hit home we can have some kind of autofire.

 

 

I am searching the web for shooting tables atm. But I could not find any. Ill ad them in an edit. Or someone can provide this information.

I read in Ramage's novels a max range of about 4000 yards (3,6km). But I dont see it as a valid source for technical information.

[Destraex]

We are getting a bomb ketch? What can this be used for .... not ships?

[BungeeLemming]

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/1641-current-development-plans/

 

 

1. Mortars will be added as a weapon and a Mortar brig will be launched
2. Prototype untextured forts will be given to testing (light and heavy edition)

[akd]

If they make them capable of ship to ship combat outside of anything but the most extraordinary circumstances, I suspect damage and combat system will be totally unbalanced. The ability to deliver explosive shells onto woods ships brought about fundamental changes to naval combat, bringing an end to the era of wood ships and iron balls. But this was not achieved with mortars / bomb vessels.

Delivering a high trajectory mortar shell onto a target is a huge gunnery problem requiring enormous skill and technical knowledge. You need a relatively stable platform (thus the need to anchor in calmer inshore waters), a special rig that allows your high trajectory weapon to clear the ship without destroying the rigging or setting her on fire, an advanced knowledge of ballistics to deliver the round accurately down range, and on top of that you have to set the fuze just right so that the bomb bursts at the exact moment it arrives on or just above the target (else you get "bombs bursting in air" harmlessly).

[Mirones]

well the mortars are mostly against crew and infantry since the mortar projectile explodes in the air over the ground sending parts in all directions

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

The spring would have to be around a capstan to turn the ship. I don't personally think the turning an anchored/sprung ship should be faster than using the rudder while underway.

[akd]

I think he means it would be more responsive than turning a ship that is simply stopped in the water without sails set (we are currently allowed to turn slowly as an abstraction of using a sweep or towing the ship's head around with boats).

Anchoring would be great, but I think the most important element to get right is the gunnery. As long as it is setup such that the player wants to be stationary while firing and can only use the mortar against a large, stationary target, whether stopping is accomplished by anchoring or dropping all sails is immaterial. You should not need to make large and sudden corrections to azimuth while firing the mortar, anyways. I think the essential elements to getting mortar gunnery right have mostly been covered, but could be elaborated on a bit:

1. Range should be set by amount of powder. The range (powder level) should be selected when the mortar is loaded, not just before the mortar fires. The mortar should also have a fairly significant minimum range. No loading the mortar with a tiny charge, then suicide charging ships at close range and firing so that the bomb only flies 10s of meters ahead of your ship into the enemy. I like the idea of a bar that can be "filled" by an analog player input from minimum charge to maximum charge. But again, that minimum charge should still have the mortar bomb flying hundreds of meters.

2. Azimuth should be set by ship facing, although a limited arc of traverse for the mortar might be allowed (iirc, some were fixed and some could traverse).

3. Mortar bomb should have a variable fuze. However, setting fuzes is probably a step too far for direct player control and could just be set automatically based on the powder charge/range selected, incorporating some random error. This error could be reduced by crew or technology upgrades, but would always be fairly variable, so that some bombs would burst at the right height, some on the ground and some too high to have effect.

4. Don't forget the smoke trail from the bomb fuze. This will look awesome and help players understand the ballistics.

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

Turning faster than while currently stationary makes far more sense akd, thanks!

[Cochrane]

I agree with the suggestions above. I also think balance can be managed by a) making it really, really hard to dial in the round; making a successful shot extremely damaging to wooden ships and pretty nasty to fortifications and personnel; and c) adding significant danger of explosion if the mortar vessel is fired on. It would have been terrifying to have someone trying to range on you with mortars before you could close them. It would have been equally terrifying to have a ship closing on you while your tried to range her with your mortars. I think there's lots of opportunity for fun game play if the balance is sought that way as opposed to nerfing the damage and making them easy to use.

[BungeeLemming]

I guess balancing is pretty easy:

First shooting on the move is so hard that joe average never successfully hit the target. Ofc if your the UBER skilled gunnery master you could do it. But lets think realistic

Also there is a certain minimum range wich prevents players from derping at short ranges.

 

Second they are very weak armored and armed. Some ketches used a few guns per side but they wont do a lot of damage to anyone with those. (6lb guns propably)

 

I am most worried about the actual aiming system. I mean: the sideaim is easy for sure.

But how can we get a good range adjustment. It has to feel good on me and at the same time it has to give me a feeling of skill. I dont want to hit a button and voila the fort is gone. (at least this is IMHO)

[Johny Reb]

We are getting a bomb ketch? What can this be used for .... not ships?

Naval Action will have forts that can be bombarded. I believe that will primarily be the use of the bomb ketch. It won't be for ship to ship combat although it could probably be used on an anchored fleet. Its a single purpose ship but so is an unarmed hauler. I welcome this addition with open arms.

[Johny Reb]

My understanding is the fuse came into play as well which controlled when an explosive shell would explode. The bomb vessel could carry explosive shells and non-explosive shells. One to kill fort garrison and the other to reduce the guns.

 

I think control of the mortar could be done as suggested by Bungee but I would probably remove the anchoring phase and springs for sake of moving the game action at a reasonable rate. Just allow the ship to turn with the sails down and no way on her as if anchors and springs were deployed.

 

As for the firing I think the slider would work (you would need two if it was a fused explosive shot) or you could be required to manually type in the numbers. Either way would be fine with my but the numbers would be more precise.

[Cochrane]

My understanding is the fuse came into play as well which controlled when an explosive shell would explode. The bomb vessel could carry explosive shells and non-explosive shells. One to kill fort garrison and the other to reduce the guns.

 

I think control of the mortar could be done as suggested by Bungee but I would probably remove the anchoring phase and springs for sake of moving the game action at a reasonable rate. Just allow the ship to turn with the sails down and no way on her as if anchors and springs were deployed.

 

As for the firing I think the slider would work (you would need two if it was a fused explosive shot) or you could be required to manually type in the numbers. Either way would be fine with my but the numbers would be more precise.

 

I think this would work well and I'm not too concerned with mortar being over-powered against other ships. Fuse burn rate and cutting was not 100% accurate/predictable. Dropping a bomb on a fort that's less of an issue, but to hit a ship you need the bomb to explode right above - can't be too high or too low. Try adjusting shot powder and fuse length to effectively hit a moving target.

[akd]

I think if a bomb came aboard a ship (likely penetrating top deck in process) then detonated, it would be absolutely devastating, probably achieving more destruction with a single shot than a full broadside. You don't want the fuze too long when attacking an area land target, because the bomb bursting in air would achieve a wider area of effect against exposed personnel. Not sure the same dynamic would apply if the gunnery system allowed you to easily hit a point target like a ship directly. Hitting a ship directly with a "delay fuze" bomb would be quite desirable.

[AP514]

I think the chances of actually hitting a moving manuvering ship would be Very Slim...

Now vs a Fort-- sure once you get into position stop/anchor then begin to range in the fort.

All while under fire from the fort....sounds like great game play to me.

[BungeeLemming]

 

I think the chances of actually hitting a moving manuvering ship would be Very Slim...

Now vs a Fort-- sure once you get into position stop/anchor then begin to range in the fort.

All while under fire from the fort....sounds like great game play to me.

 

 

You know.. the point in using bomb ketches is to stay OUT of the fort's range.. I did not yet find figures or tables of real world shooting but the very book I read right now they talk of 4000 yards of range.. So that would be enough to stay out of the danger zone. (its a fictional novell so I wont take them for granted. But since the author is  having historical sidenotes I think its a good figure to start)