Moderators issue.

[Jorge]

How long will be the moderators abusing our patience?
Is it not enough to tolerate racism ignorance and contempt of some players? Now we must face not only the acquiescence of some moderators with this kind of attitude, in addition some of them rejoice in such comments.

 

For the record, i will publish these facts in the comments of Steam, for Spanish speakers know what kind of game will buy. Thank you.

[Anolytic]

Honestly, I see nothing wrong by the mod there.

 

Also. Chat violations should be reported in-game.

[Konali89]

As i have told you ingame:

 

If it was put in a derrogorative form you can use the ingame report function. I understand that you feel disrepected if you want to see that sentence in that context. However i am still 100% convinced he put in in a context meant as in : the food dish.  Then you lashed out with F U brit. Not nice, but not too strong either in my opinion, but regardless i stepped in to avoid escalations.

 

I have nothing against you or any of the Spanish playerbase, but you took this out of context and i can only repeat myself, if you honestly believe it was put in a racist form or way, feel free to use the ingame report function. I couldnt judge that on the spot simply because i do not speak Spanish.

 

So may the wind be with you captain Jorge. I'll leave this to the other staff as i have spoken out my point of view and its done for me.

[Liq]

All i see is some salty Don

[Fastidius]

have you ever been on the internet?

 

You may wanna work on the thickness of your hide.

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

What was the red fuzzed text?

[Powderhorn]

So, I had a conversation to understand the "why" of "why is this offensive." It certainly might be an issue where it came up because of somebody's race, yet hereit seems to be an issue of the nation that you play under.

Here, tacos are misattributed to Spain, and extended to players that fly the Spanish flag. There can be some issues here if we navel-gaze long enough, but it seems to be more in the nature of good-natured ribbing.

Maybe.

It is very hard to determine motive in an online format, and more so on the fly, as we go. It is possible it was meant maliciously. It seems more likely that it was not. However, this leaves any moderator a judgement call: Do I punish, try to move the conversation, or let it slide?

This is an issue we are constantly exploring. We try to find just the right "level" of moderation. Not too firm, not too soft. Indeed, many Spanish players have changed their signatures to imply that moderators are of the Inquisition, as our moderation was deemed "too harsh."

Now, you tell us it is too light. We understand people want the benefit of the doubt. Spanish players have made this very clear to us. Yet now you do not wish us to extend that.

Rather than using this as an example of explanation of WHY this is offensive to create dialogue, you have sought simple punishment. Here, it seems that you don't want to come to greater understanding, instead you want to try to force control: Over the player by getting him or her silenced by moderators; and over the game by attempting to blackmail the rest of the staff with threats of negative commentary in other forums.

Let us use this as a place of actual dialogue, instead of the daily power struggle that is so unproductive, and takes time away from other, more productive things.

[Jorge]

So, I had a conversation to understand the "why" of "why is this offensive." It certainly might be an issue where it came up because of somebody's race, yet hereit seems to be an issue of the nation that you play under.

Here, tacos are misattributed to Spain, and extended to players that fly the Spanish flag. There can be some issues here if we navel-gaze long enough, but it seems to be more in the nature of good-natured ribbing.

Maybe.

It is very hard to determine motive in an online format, and more so on the fly, as we go. It is possible it was meant maliciously. It seems more likely that it was not. However, this leaves any moderator a judgement call: Do I punish, try to move the conversation, or let it slide?

This is an issue we are constantly exploring. We try to find just the right "level" of moderation. Not too firm, not too soft. Indeed, many Spanish players have changed their signatures to imply that moderators are of the Inquisition, as our moderation was deemed "too harsh."

Now, you tell us it is too light. We understand people want the benefit of the doubt. Spanish players have made this very clear to us. Yet now you do not wish us to extend that.

Rather than using this as an example of explanation of WHY this is offensive to create dialogue, you have sought simple punishment. Here, it seems that you don't want to come to greater understanding, instead you want to try to force control: Over the player by getting him or her silenced by moderators; and over the game by attempting to blackmail the rest of the staff with threats of negative commentary in other forums.

Let us use this as a place of actual dialogue, instead of the daily power struggle that is so unproductive, and takes time away from other, more productive things.

 

Ok, I agree with much of what you say, but you have to understand that we are tired of comments like that. It is true that moderators are not responsible for the education of the players. But from my point of view should refrain from making certain comments that cast doubt on its function within the game. Certainly there are terms that may seem culturally offensive and even racist depending on who has the say.

[Jack Nastyface]

I can't believe you people!

 

Just to set the stage, I'm an American, (formerly English),my spouse is from Central America, and I enjoy playing Naval  Action.

 

We are ALL just ordinary people playing a Game that we enjoy.

 

Where is all this animosity and hubris coming from?

 

Jorge,  why do you feel so downtrodden? Nobody in the Moderator Panel or the Game is looking down on you for being a Latino.

 

You are only who you think you are, no more, no less, and anybody who tells you otherwise is a damned liar!

 

Especially don't listen to the voices of the Rabble-rousers who want you to feel guilty for being non-white.

 

The rules and so-forth  that the Moderators have in place are developed with EVERYBODIES well-being in mind, not just a select few.

 

Just suck it up, and enjoy one of the best Games around.

 

Vaya con Dios,  amigo.

Edited September 6, 2016 by Henry d'Esterre Darby
Removed modern political reference

[Fastidius]

Is the issue that the food comes from mexico and you think it is derogatory in that way? Because it can be read as give us your women too....

[maturin]

Aren't half of Spain's ports literally in Mexico right now?

[Fastidius]

let's just say it is either misconstrued or just silly....i doubt if its really a issue to the universe

[Arvenski]

Just grow a thicker skin, and welcome to the internet. You can find things to be offended about all over the place, but only if you choose to let them offend you. It's not like he called you the N-word or something blatantly racist like that. He didn't even curse at you. In fact, you cursed at him, and then got upset that the moderators didn't punish him for it. Ugh.

Edited September 6, 2016 by Arvenski

[Skully]

Just grow a thicker skin, and welcome to the internet.

Never! That's just a precedent to make matters worse.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_gap

It is cultural differences. And I think we have all been raised to believe our culture is the best.

This belief will stick until you are exposed to a different culture.

But how do we learn? Usually by trial and error.

So we give offense and are offended as we try to learn another culture. And then we have two ways to deal with it, accept the potential offense or run amok.

It is for non-Dutch mods impossible to judge whether I have offended Kloothommel with this honorific insult.

When you add in a mod, you now have 3 parties who need to agree whether and how something is offending. The chances of agreement are 12.5%, pretty low right?

So I think it is good for mods to highlight the potential offense, so we can learn and proceed.

Now you have learned that calling a Spanish a taco eater is offending. So if you want to show respect, you won't call him that again. Then again if you deliberately do want to insult him, so be it. But let the insult be acknowledged, and the stain put on your reputation.

Grow understanding and capability to show respect. Maybe too much for the Internet, but hopefully possible in Naval Action.

I don't expect this to happen overnight, so there is more to this.

After the third time sailing back you'll remember this for life...

Expect to be offended and learn from each other. Do we really need moderators for that?

Edited September 6, 2016 by Skully

[Captain Boneboys]

Garlic eating scoundrel swabs, one'n' all them spaniards.

Tis but mutinous actions taken here, aye !

[Haratik]

Going back to PotBS days, it was acceptable to call the Spanish "Dons" or "tacos".  It was demeaning but it wasn't as bad as calling them certain other derogatory terms as you would find nowadays.  I'm sure you can get my meaning without me having to say it.

The same goes for the French.  We called them "frogs". A semi-historical term in and of itself.

 

For the British, well, I have to be fair, between the ganking "rats" and the "frogs", probably the worst thing you could call anybody in the British nation was "lolbrit".  Mainly because the majority of them liked to puff themselves up like they were all that, then scatter at the first sign of trouble.

 

But hey, another game, another era.

I don't know what passes as derogatory nowadays in Naval Action, but I know of a fair shade of much worse in the way of insults than saying "taco".  It's actually very mild compared to what could be said.

Note: And this is coming from someone with a 50% Hispanic background that grew up around those insults!

[Rychu Karas]

omg this thread is sad, sad as the arrogance of the author.

hehe, he's complaining about taco?

I can see one thing

"f u brit" all know what it means. Its very rude and hope it will be punished as well.

 

eheheh lolbrits were LOL, because all what they do was lolganking others in quadra speed mod lolboats :] I miss old potbs style. But I still believe that NA has the potential to be even greater!

Edited September 6, 2016 by Rychu Karas

[Anal Mafia]

How long will be the moderators abusing our patience?

Is it not enough to tolerate racism ignorance and contempt of some players? Now we must face not only the acquiescence of some moderators with this kind of attitude, in addition some of them rejoice in such comments.

 

For the record, i will publish these facts in the comments of Steam, for Spanish speakers know what kind of game will buy. Thank you.

2b0WDfj.jpg

 

People like you, who leave false and biased reviews/comments on Steam, are the reason Steam reviews/comments are untrustworthy. Grow up. The only one at fault here is you, and the developers shouldn't suffer because of your childish mentality. Since when is "give us your tacos" considered a racist comment? "F U Brit" isn't racist either, but it's a hell of a lot closer to being racist than Bobzillah's original comment.

 

I've spent a fair amount of time playing alongside Bobzillah, and he is a good guy who enjoys the occasional bit of trash talk. Oh, and for the record, he's German, not British. If you want to attack him, at least get his nationality correct.

[Jorge]

People like you, who leave false and biased reviews/comments on Steam, are the reason Steam reviews/comments are untrustworthy. Grow up. The only one at fault here is you, and the developers shouldn't suffer because of your childish mentality. Since when is "give us your tacos" considered a racist comment? "F U Brit" isn't racist either, but it's a hell of a lot closer to being racist than Bobzillah's original comment.

 

I've spent a fair amount of time playing alongside Bobzillah, and he is a good guy who enjoys the occasional bit of trash talk. Oh, and for the record, he's German, not British. If you want to attack him, at least get his nationality correct.

 

People like you who defends such comments did not care when we salute your German friend with a "Hi nazi"..... is the same trash talk you say, I do not think he likes ... but it's true, not it is racist.

[Eishen]

 Battle chat is -sadly- full with this kind of  minor offenses , it is a pity  that some players are far from a chivalrous treatment of their rivals resorting to personal and/or group discalifications.

         

 The screenshot is an example of the escalation of insults that we can unfortunately find not so scarcely on that "interchanges"

         

  All this said , if you feel insulted for another players words sending him to commit sodomy it is not the way to go. 

  Maintaining your claims when even an ingame moderator was trying to appaise the conversation is even worst 

  Posting on forum ingame chat problems does not help ,

   And openly "menacing" devs with "bad reports"... seriously?" 

 

  As this is not a proper topic to "Forum and website problems and improvements" I am locking it. Take Powderhorn answer as the official one

​http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/16307-moderators-issue/#entry308474