Avatars

[PrezesOi]

Thats what i was thinking about...but IF devs get time later and have good idea about how possibly avatar combat could look like that would be great ! Boarding was main aspect of sea combat until improvement of gunnery...

Based on what I see in the movies on youtube, NA is already quite realistic, consistent with the history and physics when it comes to artillery combat.

Boarding? Sure, would be nice to have it too. But on one condition - only if it will be at such high level as the sailing and artillery is. And that's impossible. Current computers are too weak to simulate realistic boarding, combat in which hundreds of sailors and marines could be involved.

If it has to look like in PotBS (Benny Hill style running around deck), then better don't do it at all...

[Edward Vernon]

I already know what I look like in a Commander's uniform...

[Bart Smith]

Based on what I see in the movies on youtube, NA is already quite realistic, consistent with the history and physics when it comes to artillery combat.

Boarding? Sure, would be nice to have it too. But on one condition - only if it will be at such high level as the sailing and artillery is. And that's impossible. Current computers are too weak to simulate realistic boarding, combat in which hundreds of sailors and marines could be involved.

If it has to look like in PotBS (Benny Hill style running around deck), then better don't do it at all...

Agree PotBS avacom its a joke, add to that lagg = umplayable. Im pretty sure that most people DONT want super realistic game because will be too boring, too hard and too complicated. We got forum to write our ideas here so come on! free yours imagination! Devs need find good balance afterall...

[Charles Caldwell]

For me the idea of avatars wandering around dilutes the purpose of this game..... its about the high sea and naval combat, if you want officers running around like headless chickens theres always PotBS!

[Hyperion74]

Here is the easiest solution to avatars. Take a piece of paper. Draw a picture of what you want as avatar (Not sure if big blue two legged kittys are acceptable) Tape said drawing to your computer desk. (thumbtacks acceptable) There you go. AVATAR.

[Charles Caldwell]

Here is the easiest solution to avatars. Take a piece of paper. Draw a picture of what you want as avatar (Not sure if big blue two legged kittys are acceptable) Tape said drawing to your computer desk. (thumbtacks acceptable) There you go. AVATAR.

 

Genius lol

[RAMJB]

I can't care the less about avatars. First of all that kind of stuff detracts a lot of time from what is the main part of the game. Those are resources, time and work spent in something that's very secondary at best. and I mean A LOT of resources, time and work, because you don't have to just work on the characters and animations. Then you have to implement the scenary, render whole towns for your little pixel captain to wander around, hand-make taverns, stores, townhalls et all. Then implement a lot of "civilians" so the places look alive. And that only in towns, because what will happen if you want to visit some other random place?. In the meantime you'll have to bring avatar customization (more time wasted in clothing, dressing, etc, for you to pick the one you like the most) while always trying to make sure that you're not going to end up finding a good chunk of the population dressed like My Little Pony, something which will undoubtedly cause an uproar from some players in the forums. We've already had cases in the forums that they want clad dressed females in pinky shorts (yeah, I've also read -that- guy and his threads). Imagine what will happen if avatars are around. "Why can't I increase the size of my female captain's boobs"?. "Why can't I use short skirts on her?". "I want a brony costume for my avatar!!!)

In the best case, avatars are an illustrious way of wasting resources when this game is not even past the alpha stage. Caring about how your little pixel captain looks like seems a bit out of place when we don't even have the sea trials out. In the worst case, they're the portal to doom.

 

But more importantly, the longer there are no avatars, the longer there's no temptation to start bringing some kind of "avatar combat", or swasbuckling, or fencing, or whatever, First Person "combat" to this game. Which has no place in a naval combat game. I'm sorry if I seem unflexible in this regard, but the, with all due respect, stupid button mashing sequences that somehow pretend to emulate combat, is something we can perfectly go without in what's, after all, a naval combat game. It's not as if every ship captain handled two cutlasses and yelled YARR each time a boarding action took place. Some did, some didn't, but none of them earned anything by mashing keyboard buttons better than the opponent. That's one of the worst downfalls of any game of this era. And I'm glad it's not going to exist here.

 

One of the best news of this game (for me) is that boarding will include no "avatar" combat whatsoever, which made me jump in joy. As long as there's no "avatar" at all in the game there'll be no temptation to implement that perpetually failed proposition that is "avatar combat in a naval game". Which is great and is nice. If my enemy has a latency of 450s that won't save him when I'm lobbing ball ammunition to his at 200yards, but it freakin' stinks when you have to fight his  pixel mannequin with a pixel sword with half a second latency and see how you can do nothing to fight in anything close to equal terms. On top of having to mash buttons. Which is already retarded enough.

 

This is a game about age of sail ships. So let's enjoy the ships and leave the mannequins for those who want to play a first person shooter, or War of the Roses.

[Germanico]

Let's pray they good men and women of Game Labs stay true to their goals and use their assets wisely. People asking for fancy avatars or other nonsense obviously don't know about how games are generally financed - mostly on a shoestring.

[Killick]

I agree with the notion that creating avatars is a waste of resources, and that adding avatar combat would destroy the game.

 

The only thing that I would really, really like - I've said this before elsewhere - is the possibility to walk around my ship in first person. Perhaps not inside the ship, but at least on the decks. This does NOT require any avatar to be made, because I won't be seeing myself. But I think it would add a lot to the immersion at hardly any additional costs in terms of resources (seeing that the ships are already modeled beautifully).

 

EDIT: Let me clarify this a little more. If one can only move the ship, it is as if the player 'is' the ship, rather than its captain. By allowing the possibility to move independently on the ship it will feel much more like you are just a person riding on top of that giant ship. I believe it will make the game feel much grander.

[HunHarcos]

Based on what I see in the movies on youtube, NA is already quite realistic, consistent with the history and physics when it comes to artillery combat.

Boarding? Sure, would be nice to have it too. But on one condition - only if it will be at such high level as the sailing and artillery is. And that's impossible. Current computers are too weak to simulate realistic boarding, combat in which hundreds of sailors and marines could be involved.

If it has to look like in PotBS (Benny Hill style running around deck), then better don't do it at all...

Ever heard of total war series?Todays computers can simulate far more things than you think,friend.

[RAMJB]

Ever heard of total war series?Todays computers can simulate far more things than you think,friend.

 

 

Well, see...If you write the code needed for it, and do the 3d models, animations, and effects yourself then why not. Don't forget you'll have to write proper AI routines for it too. We want nice looking combat and proper actions and reactions, right?. In the meantime you should work out a valid combat mechanic without exploitable loopholes for avatar combat, and come up with a valid combat system where no big button mashing is required, and where guys with hig ping/latency are a non issue. Then you do the rendering of all the towns, cities, jungles, stores, taberns, townhalls, etc, not forgetting each one of it should have a different look and flavor to it. Because if avatars are implemented, they should be able to roam ashore...right?.

 

Oh, BTW, you'll have to implement and code all by yourself, not asking for any resources going your way (meaning; no pay). This guys are already on a budget, so you'll have to do it on your own. If you're up to it, then sure, bring avatar combat and boardings.

 

In the meantime let them work in what they should be working in. Like finishing the combat part well (as there are still things that I understand are still way from finished, like antipersonnel shot, or fires, not to mention tinkering with the things that are in play right now and need readjustement or fixing). And once they're done with that there'll be, a whole open world sandbox game which mechanics they have to figure out, to then probably work in a massive scale world map for the final version of it while coming out with new dynamics for the mode and keeping gameplay balance at check. All during which they'll also have to be locating and squashing bugs with the game.

 

And once that's done, probably we'll need a lot more ships again so they'll have to work on that as a first priority. And then...

 

you get the idea. Avatar combat is like down in the bottom of the things this game needs. You have to understand this guys are a small team with limited resources working on a game that's of a pretty spectacular scale and level of complexity, to go on and ask them to add even another layer of it on top of the big ordeal they already have between hands.

 

So let them work in what matters for a game like this. Avatar combat is, compartively, awaste of time, and unneeded for this game even if you love the idea. Yes, total war series can put a lot of soldiers on a battlefield and make them look nice. Doesn't mean it'll make any sense to put it in this game other than for pure eye candy. and quite frankly eye candy is in low demand right now and will be so until the gameplay features are fully implemented, tuned, and balanced. And the sandbox mode working as it should. Which ain't exactly easy.

 

Not to mention TW games are AAA titles created by developer team sizes according to that status. This guys don't have that kind of resources.

[Bart Smith]

I understand that many of you no need avatar combat in NA from different reasons (boarding - to be specific). But nobody can disagree that boarding was VERY important part of naval warfare those days and as a "proper" game Naval Action should have it in my opinion. I also hate PotBS style boarding - which i was avoid as much as i can but to get complete naval fight game (i mean NA) boarding have to be in it.

Not sure how this should be look like but again we got so many clever an beloved players here so share your ideas about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_boarding

[Charles Caldwell]

I'm not sure you even need an Avatar to resolve boarding actions, afterall its not a FPS.

[Bart Smith]

Game acording to developers plans at the end supposed to be sandbox with open world and conquest so for me its natural that will be boarding in it just as third phase of development as far i know.

Weapons used by british infranty and navy:

http://www.katetattersall.com/?p=4879

And again how poor rats will be fight when will be no boarding in game? That was main tactics for pirates and even from comercial side of whole game im pretty sure that developers dont want loose lot of players who always dream about be a "pirate" and take prizes...

[Charles Caldwell]

Game acording to developers plans at the end supposed to be sandbox with open world and conquest so for me its natural that will be boarding in it just as third phase of development as far i know.

Weapons used by british infranty and navy:

http://www.katetattersall.com/?p=4879

And again how poor rats will be fight when will be no boarding in game? That was main tactics for pirates and even from comercial side of whole game im pretty sure that developers dont want loose lot of players who always dream about be a "pirate" and take prizes...

 

Perhaps you misunderstood me.... I agree Boarding SHOULD be in, but this is an Avatar thread and I thought you were implying that how can you have boarding without Avatars.

 

For me Avatars are mostly for vanity sake anyway as oppose to vital in-game components.

[Bart Smith]

Ok i see your point now:) all i want to say that i want see my capitain as a 3d character  and if possible i want fight during boarding

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

Ok i see your point now:) all i want to say that i want see my capitain as a 3d character  and if possible i want fight during boarding

Fighting during boarding was the worst aspect of POTBS. It is my fervent wish that it stay in the abstract in this game.

[Bart Smith]

How many times i have to say: i dont liked PotBS avacom...its suxx on every possible level:) I WANT sometning WAY better in Naval Action

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

I understand Bart, no worries mate!

[RAMJB]

Boarding ofc is going to be there. Abstracted. Which prevents BS first person loopholes, or guys with 800ms latency destroying you while you watch helplessy. And will definitely mean that a battle is not decided by who button-mashes better or has better twitch reactions. Which is good for a game that's based about sailing skill and smart tactical choices. Not twitch reactions ,much less button mashing.
 

 

And again how poor rats will be fight when will be no boarding in game?

 

"Poor rats" are going to have a pretty interesting life because of a lot of other reasons, at least is the way I understand it, to bother about not having avatar combat. As how will they do a living, exactly the same way the real life ones did. Picking the right prey they could bite on, and having a properly trained and skilled crew in boarding. They'll still have the chance to board. They won't have the chance to directly affect it once started though. Which I would say is the way the game mechanics should be kept. Using a cutlass has little to do with sailing a ship. And for all I know this game is about ships, not cutlasses.

[Charles Caldwell]

Boarding ofc is going to be there. Abstracted. Which prevents BS first person loopholes

 

Music to my ears..

[Mageprince]

would be nice however to rent your very own drydock! equipped with hired serfs to do your bidding!

[AmericanSailor98]

I understand the game is about naval and sea, but still we shall have our own avatars, maybe we could even see our captains aboard our ships? Yeah I am not thinking about combat on ground, but in the final release it would be nice to have our own customized captain, we could buy clothes, and accessories and all that for our captains to look like a badass captain  

[KillBox]

I understand the game is about naval and sea, but still we shall have our own avatars, maybe we could even see our captains aboard our ships? Yeah I am not thinking about combat on ground, but in the final release it would be nice to have our own customized captain, we could buy clothes, and accessories and all that for our captains to look like a badass captain

 

There might be a meet-me-in-the-middle solution for this.  Naval officers are all the same character rig (male, average height, build, etc) and will wear the clothing appropriate to his occupation, rank and nation.  None of this is customizable, and it's the same stripe through and through.  However, add in a simple face-modifier (like TES: Oblivion) so there's some semblance of customization and we're not all Baldy McGeneric with a wig.

 

With this setup, there's a greater sense of individualism and a connection with an Avatar of yourself.  However, the boarding is still in abstract, and no 360-noramrodmusketsnipe or captains tea-bagging each other, just an Avatar directing the whole gamut from the quarterdeck.

[Siegfried]

My 2 cents and sorry for my english:

 

We can have avatars but only for display medals, military rank or uniform and customizable face and maybe "diplomatic screen" for negotiate surrender, etc. Never for FPS combat. The work of a captain in battle is not combat in first line with a cutlass. But you can see the combat behind a line of "elite personal guard". The captain avatar is like a "ship flag", if enemy reach him, you have to negotiate diplomatic rendition.

 

For dress your captain you can choose various colors and items depending of the nation and some option according range (leutenant has fewer options than captain, etc). 

 

If possible the captain can order tactical decisions like... direct control of a gun for marksman fire, destroy rigging and cut the ropes for end boarding, send another boarding party for reinforcements, open fire musketers before boarding or defend from enemy boarding, place crew resources where are more necesary, etc... But all without move from their battle station in "upper stern site I don't know the name in english" or the second commander if there's one.

 

The captain avatar is intouchable and immortal and limited movement in boardings but in normal combat of the ship you can move all decks or maybe direct control of a gun for range measure shot. In peace time you can move all ship.

 

I don't mean say to do to developers, only give them ideas. No fps combat smashing keys but a tactical combat simplified Total War stile.